Mud class for trail trucks????

[jetboat]

yes I got bit by the bug... Lets setup some rules for the mud drags we have been talking about. Something to do when we dont have rocks but we can still use our trail trucks with...

What Im thinking:

trail class:

2.2 or 1.9 tires/rims
no paddle or paddle type tires allowed
full ladder frame
wheel base must fit inside stock body space
27t Brushed motor limit (27-100t nothing lower)
driveshafts
1 motor
1 esc
(essentially the same as we are talking for scale class)


Pro Mud
2.2 or 1.9 tires/rims (unlimited design)
13" WB
frame design open
no motor limit

Course design:
5' min length (unlimited max)
terrrain: mud or wet clay
course must be straight

judging
2 judges with stop watches
timed event
lowest judges time is accepted time (unless there is a judging mistake such as hitting button twice etc)
in the event a vehicle becomes stuck distance traveled will be measured
there will be 2 runs, 1 each dirrection.


Basically this gives us something else to do with our scalers and I added the promud class just for fun. I left in some limits in the promud class so that we dont have a bunch of stock e-maxxs showing up. I figure I know I can build a course at my farm (50' course long enough ) Bob will build a backyard course and I bet we could convince LHR to let us build 1 if we do the work.

Let me know what you guys think.

[Mnster]

Yeah I don't know brushless is all I use and I can't go pro mod or trail class with my scale rig unless I want to get owned. The C-10 is tank and feels like it packs a 4cylinder with a 55t, the truck used to stall when it would hit sticky mud with the 55t. The only thing brushed I own in my entire fleet of 10 trucks is my Berg. So I don't know maybe I won't compete in the trail class.:-( But, I do have a pro mod Axial rig already built up lets just call it the Snow blazer. I don't know I guess the farm is to far from me anyways. But, if this ever makes its way north count me in.

[jetboat]

these are just my proposed rules... nothing firm... My idea on the brushless rule was to keep the trail class a class that is for the trucks we will hopefully be running in the scale class.

As for locations, the farm is just because I know I can build a course there without any problems.

my idea was just to give us some rules to build by... I know a few people have been thinking of building trucks andit always ends up being a competition.... best to have some kind of rule set.

[Ced RC]

I think it would be good to openly discuss here, get everybody's thoughts, modify rules as necessary, we could really make this a fun time. I like the idea of two classes, but I think we should gauge the necessity of two classes via participation, how many people would actually want to run trucks that fall into one class or the other.

What about side by side mud drag racing? Or does it seem better to do individual runs, basically pass/fail, trucks that pass are judged by time.

For the Trail Class what if we just stick with Scale Class Crawler rules? No limit on motors etc.

For Pro Class we would need to be careful with the rules to keep things competitive, basically like you said Jeff, keep EMAXX size trucks out, maybe wheel size limitation would be enough? Considering that the maximum tire size for 2.2 sized wheels is pretty limited, maybe that would be enough to keep it competitive? I think overall length and track width limitations would be necessary too.

[jetboat]

I considered heads up racing as an option... would be cool to watch. We could do a bracket type set up where each truck runs thru twice, lane selection becomes the only problem.
The only problem I have with no motor limit in trail class is that I was aiming for a class where you basically take your trail truck right off of the rocks and right to the mud. Also I wanted to keep the money down in that class... that way people like...umm Zach.. arent complaining " I cant afford dig"

[thunder7845]

I wanted to do one with a .15 nitro motor or something along those lines.

[sloppy]

I know this doesnt involve me but why limit motor and not battery?? a 65turn of 3-4 cell will far out perform any low wind motors.. to me a battery limit would make more since then a motor limit..

[jetboat]

It can involve anyone that wants involved

A battery limit is a good idea... I know my scaler sure livened up on 3s compared to the runs with 2s (just not sure how healthy that xl5 is now lol)

[Ced RC]

Interesting idea with battery limit. Considering that battery size and placement may not be as important in comparison to crawlers, I guess a person could use a 4s 5000 mah with a low turn motor, create some insane wheel speed an torque, hmmmm.........

[JAS82]

Great idea i love mud

[jetboat]

Originally Posted by Ced RC

Interesting idea with battery limit. Considering that battery size and placement may not be as important in comparison to crawlers, I guess a person could use a 4s 5000 mah with a low turn motor, create some insane wheel speed an torque, hmmmm.........

But what esc is out there that will handle 4s and is waterproof or your willing to get wet. Dont get me wrong, Im thinking of using the same motor I use on my hydro's...700bb on 4s but, with that Im running water cooling and even with it spitting a 4' stream out the side of the boat it still gets warm after only a couple mins. And then you get into transmission problems...what can handle the power besides a custom?


idea... micro switches could do 3 pos... off -1 pack- 2 pack dont need reverse

[Ced RC]

Originally Posted by jetboat

But what esc is out there that will handle 4s and is waterproof or your willing to get wet.

I was thinking Mamba Monster or Mamba Max, I know the Mamba Max says it's only rated at 3s but it will handle 4s with the right setup.

Hell the Monster handles up to 6s?

[BJoe]

Originally Posted by thunder7845

I wanted to do one with a .15 nitro motor or something along those lines.

Just took measurements, the Slayer would be fair game
Wheel Base it 12 3/4"
Track width (sidewall to sidewall) is 11"
Maybe take stock tires and 1/8 scale buggy paddles to make a paddle tire that would fit within the body

[Mnster]

I'd like to see the mud course as a add on to a rock trail. The reason for that is the truck would still have to be geared for the crawling section of the course. I mean I could plop my Mamba inrunner setup in the c-10 and fly from one end to the next. But, with the crawler course the inrunner would cog like bastard and stall in the rocks. I agree a voltage limit would be the best way to limit horsepower. Also maybe restrict motor can size to 550?

Brushless is just as cheap as brushed. I have $35 in a cheap ebay esc, and $20 in the motor in the Tacoma jero. The C-10 has a $60 Quark33 esc and $25 motor. I don't really get why people say it costs so much. I mean I have equal or less cash in my BL setups then my brushed setups I used to run. Many of the Castle esc's are affordable and are what people are already using for Brushed setups. Heck the BL motors are so affordable you almost could run a spec motor.

The main reason I like them are.

1. Water has no effect on the life or performance of the motor.

2. The motor has a strong starting torque so high rpms and speed are not nessisary for inching along.

3. They sound awesome swirling in mud.

4. They run cooler under stress as compared to brushed.

5. They never wear out and have a longer run time.

[sloppy]

there are some water proof boat controlers that will handle 3s proboat makes one and there cheap. the brakes suck dont need the brakes in the mud.. I would try and run 4s threw that ESC with a 65t lathe and BEC running the servos.. I think It might work.. I ran 3s threw a LRP water proof one with a 65turn and it didnt catch fire yet.. you are also only gonna run a few seconds on a mud run or mud race and then someone else will run.. so it is not like the load would be on that long anyway..

mnster is right on the brushless in mud it is a good combo...

[BJoe]

Originally Posted by Ced RC

Hell the Monster handles up to 6s?

There have been people on the Traxxas forum that have had trouble getting that ESC to live for very long on either 12 cells or 4s let alone the claimed 6s. Hopefully they'll get that problem figured out and fixed.

I'd like to see the mud course as a add on to a rock trail. The reason for that is the truck would still have to be geared for the crawling section of the course.

That's how we ran our trucks on Saturday, both trucks were run in hte mud pretty much the same way we'd run them on the rocks. All I did was turn the front tires around so that the tread was pointed forward and could self clean as they spun.

[jetboat]

for trail class we could limit entries to only trucks ran in scale crawler class... Basically you had to enter the same truck in scale class to be eligable for a mud run. It might limit entries in that class but, it chould be a limited class anyway.
Im for a battery limit over motor limit. I dont understand brushless and mud though, any time I tried them on my outboards I ended up with a smoking motor after it got nailed with spray. Yet, I was watching Mnster driving on the lake bottom @ Busse.

As for promud, I think limits need to be few and far between. I am thinking that we need to limit it to solid rear axle just to keep it a builder class. I dont like the idea or people bringing in rtr trucks, crawling has gone that way and its discusted me.

[thunder7845]

Yeah the promod should just be a length and with limit at most and then just have ur street class like in real mud racing. I'll try to get some mud racing rules and u could kinda base it off the real rules.

[thunder7845]

Current NMRO Recognized Classes

Class,Vehicle,Engine,Tire
IA and IB Stock Stock, but allowed to have mild mods such as headers D.O.T. legal

Class,Vehicle,Engine,Tire
II Modified Stock Mild modifications, but nothing severe D.O.T. legal

Class,Vehicle,Engine,Tire
III Pro Stock Factory production automotive type engine, mods permitted D.O.T. legal, no cut tires

Class,Vehicle,Engine,Tire
IV Pro Modified Factory production automotive type engine, naturally aspirated only, no turbo or supercharger, nitrous oxide allowed D.O.T. legal, cut tires permitted

Class,Vehicle,Engine,Tire
V Unlimited/Cut Tires Any automotive type engine, mods permitted, turbocharged and supercharged permitted, nitrous oxide allowed D.O.T., any cut design

Class,Vehicle,Engine,Tire
VI Unlimited/Paddle Tires Any automotive type engine, mods permitted, turbocharged and supercharged permitted, nitrous oxide allowed Paddle or Scoop


Dunno if this helps anything but here's the rules.

[thunder7845]

Also u could do sand instead of mud for all of u who are afraid to get wet and dirty.