How and when did this happen?

[Crawler Cads]

Originally Posted by fyrstormer

Good idea covering the foam inserts with grease. Depending on the rubber compound though, silicone grease might not be a good choice. A lot of closed-cell foams nowadays are also silicone, and nothing destroys silicone rubber faster than silicone oil or grease.

I have tried high-end foams. (EDIT: except for those awful memory-foams that Pro-Line includes with some of their tires.) That's how I know I prefer the stock foams. Yes, I know, I'm a very strange man. I run closed-cell foams in my buggies and SCTs, and I have a stash of discontinued HPI 1.9" x 26mm closed-cell foams for touring car tires that I use on one of my touring cars, but I run open-cell foams in everything else. Closed-cell has too much impact rebound for off-road driving, in my opinion; the air trapped in the closed-cell foam increases in pressure very rapidly as the tire squishes on impact, so it bounces back much harder as well. Whereas with open-cell foam, the air isn't trapped inside the foam, so the impact is absorbed by compressing the foam itself, and the foam doesn't rebound nearly as vigorously as the air trapped inside closed-cell foam. It matters even more for solid-axle trucks like rock crawlers, where the suspension doesn't do much to absorb impacts because most of the truck's weight unsprung weight. That's the best explanation I can give as to why I prefer open-cell foams in my crawler tires. If it's any consolation, all of my crawler tires are overstuffed to give the foams some "preload".

Just wondering what foams youve tried as a comparison to your current method on your crawlers of over stuffing with open foam?

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[ferp420]

Originally Posted by fyrstormer

Good idea covering the foam inserts with grease. Depending on the rubber compound though, silicone grease might not be a good choice. A lot of closed-cell foams nowadays are also silicone, and nothing destroys silicone rubber faster than silicone oil or grease.

I have tried high-end foams. (EDIT: except for those awful memory-foams that Pro-Line includes with some of their tires.) That's how I know I prefer the stock foams. Yes, I know, I'm a very strange man. I run closed-cell foams in my buggies and SCTs, and I have a stash of discontinued HPI 1.9" x 26mm closed-cell foams for touring car tires that I use on one of my touring cars, but I run open-cell foams in everything else. Closed-cell has too much impact rebound for off-road driving, in my opinion; the air trapped in the closed-cell foam increases in pressure very rapidly as the tire squishes on impact, so it bounces back much harder as well. Whereas with open-cell foam, the air isn't trapped inside the foam, so the impact is absorbed by compressing the foam itself, and the foam doesn't rebound nearly as vigorously as the air trapped inside closed-cell foam. It matters even more for solid-axle trucks like rock crawlers, where the suspension doesn't do much to absorb impacts because most of the truck's weight unsprung weight. That's the best explanation I can give as to why I prefer open-cell foams in my crawler tires. If it's any consolation, all of my crawler tires are overstuffed to give the foams some "preload".

so how much more air would i need to preload my 1:1 tires will over inflating my tires help me get stuck

[Browneye]

Originally Posted by mhowzit

I hear that! I don't care if it's a comp rig or a tiny tire scaler, tires are always vented, with 2 stage foams! I also always make sure that I mount my tires with the vent holes in the same spot, so when I store my rigs, all holes are facing down, with another hole at the 12 o'clock position. I also always store my rigs with the tires off the ground, to prevent flat spots and let the water drain. A two stage foam, with a degraded outer, still performs better than a single stage, IMO. Besides, the inner stage last damn near forever and the outer is a cheap replacement. I chalk it up to maintenance cost. It's like the old saying, "You got to pay to play".

^^This.


I don't block mine up so they get flat spots. I'll roll the wheels forward a bit once a week or so to make a new flat spot. So when the rig gets powered up to run it thump-thumps for a bit 'till the tires warm up. It's only so-so effective.


The problem with single-stage 'stock' foams is that they are either too hard, too soft, not tune-able (more difficult), and there's no solid base or core to prevent tire-rollover when turning and side-hilling.



Sometimes I'll cheat and put single-stage in the rears with the nice dual-stage in front just for this reason. The 2-stage definitely comes into play in specific terrain, and makes the tread part of the tire the most pliable and conforming for traction.

[hillbillyrc]

Thought this was interesting

https://youtu.be/ht2ung1R4e8

[fyrstormer]

Originally Posted by Crawler Cads

Just wondering what foams youve tried as a comparison to your current method on your crawlers of over stuffing with open foam?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

A couple different closed-cell foams from Crawler Innovations, a 2-stage closed/open-cell foam from Crawler Innovations, a closed-cell foam from Pro-Line, and a 2-stage open-cell foam from Pitbull RC.

[gottorque]

"I reject your reality and substitute my own" -Adam Savage

Good to see I am ignoring all the expert advice in here

[hillbillyrc]

Originally Posted by hobbyjumper

Yeah, interesting. :-) Sensible advice from a pro. Unless you crawl in the high desert, or you're super-duper competitive, punching holes is one way to suck the fun out of the hobby. Two thumbs up.

I said it was interesting not that I agreed with it.

[lkvisser]

Hahaha.., look at these....



What was the one comment.., don’t comment unless you tried what I did




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[zane!]

Out of everyone I talked to in the industry, all recommended venting and only one didn't... And he is the lead designer of a very popular line of tires. I briefly tested his recommendation and decided I didn't like it, so I vented anyway.

As said... If you value tire performance at all, you need to vent your tires or wheels. The only benefit of a sealed setup is lack of water intrusion, at the expense of varying pressure and inconsistent performance.

[Browneye]

I thought I posted this but now don't see it...
How to choose your Lil' Novas, Crawler Innovations.

The 'comp' inners were designed for rock crawling...once I switched to them it did make a difference in traction - it let's the outers compress a little more but still holds them up. I don't use the 'tuning rings' unless I glue them on - too hard to get two outers sitting right inside the tire when mounting. A little 3M 77 adhesive works great for this BTW.

[zane!]

Originally Posted by hobbyjumper

Punch away...

But for my money, consistently strong performance in the wet is what led me to switch from permeable to sealed in the first place. Less maintenance came along for the ride. Sealed is not for everyone, everywhere, but neither is vented, and choosing the former doesn't mean you're a hack.

Cheers...

What performance benefits did you see from running sealed?

Are you separating the wheels every time you take the truck out to equalize the pressures at the location/elevation/temperature that you're driving in?

This is the equivalent of not checking your tire pressure on a wheeling rig or race car before driving it. Time, temperature and elevation all change the relative pressure inside a sealed vessel.

[durok]

I vent based on the feel of my wheel and tire set...

After installation of the foams and tires, I squeeze 'em and vent them if they stay squished or they are too bouncy for my liking.

It's worked out fine for me thus far.

I've noticed the smaller the internal volume of the tire, the less likely I am to vent them.

[zane!]

Originally Posted by hobbyjumper

I still run vented sometimes and am not a fan of taking on water in unknown and unequal quantities. I had to buy new parts last year, when my Canyon Trails became so soggy on one side the locker stripped out. Also, on tricky off-cambers, I noticed my vented tires rolling onto the sidewalls a lot. The foams were like this, turned out, after just one year.



I have never raced full-size cars or trucks, as you suggest, and don't intend to start, but as a former observed trials rider and current mountain biker, I pay attention to tire pressure. My friends would give me the raspberry if I said we should adjust for altitude (the higher up you go the cooler it gets, so it's a wash anyway).

Again, I have never said sealed is flat out better. I'm saying vented is not the only advice we should be pushing in this forum.

If you're interested, here's my friend and me trailing the same track, vented and non-vented. We both had fun; we both did fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPeDsQ3-lNM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGtusIjWsLo

Cheers...

Riding trials you definitely know the benefits of small changes to tire pressure. I ran trials hybrid tires on my KTM trail bike and one PSI difference was definitely noticable. I also MTB and am running 27.5+ tires which are also sensitive to 1-2psi changes.

The upside to RC Crawlers is that they're pretty flexible to setup variables... There's a lot of wiggle room to end up with pretty good performance. I'm definitely curious about objective benefits between different setups, in order to move from pretty good to excellent performance. So to test vented VS sealed, one would need the same wheel/tire/foam in vented and sealed to do back to back repeated testing on the same truck.

I'd also note that your foam setup would really benefit from dual or triple stage foams. Vented, soft single stage foam setups absolutely roll sideways and are unstable in off-camber situations.

My (current) opinion is that the proper foams for your wheels and tires, in a vented setup, will perform better than any sealed setup. I'm open to more information though!

[ferp420]

Originally Posted by hobbyjumper

Good info. Back when I was riding trials, beadlocks became an obsession when the sponsored riders like John Ranger and Trevor Howarth started showing up with them. They were able to run, like, 4psi with 2 ply which was outrageous, at the time, and left the likes of my brother (a good rider) in the dust.

As I've been struggling to get across, if I had a competition coming up (not gonna happen) I would slap on vented tires no question. But for the average joe in conditions that might contain water, today's better tire compounds allow decent grip without the frustration of scum water that just won't come out. All I'm saying.

Right now I'm lucky enough to crawl every day, and it rains every second day, so it makes sense to run sealed exclusively.

Cheers...

i to run in water every chance i get i would rather crawl a creek than a trail anyday thats how i came up with the inner tire suport system it works like a 2 stage foam wont hold water wont get flat spots and wont deterioate over time the tire dont wad up and they dont role over when sidehilling

[soze]

Originally Posted by hobbyjumper

No foams at all?? Never thought of that, which is funny because my buggies back in the 80s never had foam. Going to have to try that, just for fun.

I've seen several guys at my area crawling with tires that are basically rolling flat. The foams were basically degraded to the point where the wheel was almost at ground level.

I asked them about it, and they said they liked running them that way. They were actually able to do some good lines, but it's not something I'd ever do.
I could never be able to bring myself to find rolling a scale truck on flat tires appealing. *shrug*

[ferp420]

Originally Posted by hobbyjumper

No foams at all?? Never thought of that, which is funny because my buggies back in the 80s never had foam. Going to have to try that, just for fun.

it realy depends on the tire



ive noticed its almost imposable to turn going down hill with out somekind of suport in the tire and got alot of tire wading up and would break traction

i ran my gen8 tires with out foams in the snow they were unstopable

i ran my stock e10 tires with out foams and they worked alot better the redcat tires have stiff sidewalls so they work with out foams



i like the tire inside a tire its a good compramize the traction of a foamless tire and the suport needed for sidehilling and turning and it keeps the rims off the rocks

[Eddy The Yeti]

After all the millions invested into R&D and product design you would think this would have already been addressed by the folks making this stuff.

I gently unscrew the mounting bolts part way and allow air to and from if need be. Not really into cutting perfectly good brand new tires.

-newb

[fyrstormer]

If the goal of RC companies were to offer the best-performing products, then I would agree. But the goal is to offer products the most people will buy, and as it happens, RCers prefer products that are the most customizable, not the highest-performing.

[Eddy The Yeti]

Originally Posted by fyrstormer

If the goal of RC companies were to offer the best-performing products, then I would agree. But the goal is to offer products the most people will buy, and as it happens, RCers prefer products that are the most customizable, not the highest-performing.

If every person into RC was as cheap as you're making them out to be, Vanquish and other quality companies wouldn't have lasted 10min.

Their goal IS to offer the best performing products as close to real life as possible. Then you can change the pretty colors to adhere to those visual customizable standards you hold so high

[JokersWild]

Do you really need an answer to that? I swear book face is where all this bs happens. , that and giving trophies out to every ding a ling