RCCrawler Forums

Culetto · 09-19-2009, 11:20 AM

Just a question for those of you who might know. So i was at a local machine shop the other day, very impressive setup. Couple giant tool changing cnc mills and a giant cnc lathe, very professional.

I was there to talk to the owner about having some trick lower links made from a design i came up with and when we talked about prototyping costs i almost passed out. It was $1000 roughly to prototype 8 of them (2 sets) out of aluminum. Now, no, the design wasnt simple and when he put it into his cad system it looked brilliant and i can imagine that it will take several tools and at least 5 minutes in their high speed CNC. But im still shocked about the cost. I dont have a trust issue with these guys, one of my local team mates has known him for decades. I'm just looking for someone to say ''that sounds about right'' etc, or something to make me feel better, i feel bad for wasting his time but a grand is more than i can spring right now. Someone help me out here.

Nova's Ark · 09-19-2009, 11:54 AM

I have been shopping a few ideas around to local shops and that sounds right. What's crazy is that even with high production, the costs don't go down much. They tell me, "go to China, we can't make it that cheap". I think it's total crap personally. I want my products American made. If you look around your area, there has to be someone that can do it cheaper. Either that, or hit some of the vendors with shops here on RCC. There has to be a way to have products made here in the States and still be profitable.

Mayhem Eng. · 09-19-2009, 12:06 PM

A $1000.00 sounds high.....But you have to keep in mind he needs to make money to stay open. Lets say he bills out at 75.00 to $90.00 an hour. He has to bring the part into he cad system, figure out how he is going to set it up, create a part prog. get it to a machine have one of his guys set it up, prove out the prog. to make sure he is making what you want and then go into production for 7 or 8 more parts. Lets say it takes him 6 and 8 hours.
6 hrs @ $75.00 $450.00 or @ $90.00 $540.00
8 hrs @ $75.00 $600.00 or @ $90.00 $720.00

Some will say 6 or 8 hours to make 8 parts? There is a lot more involved then people think, it's not just can you make these? This also didn't take into account any fixturing or special tooling.

Now some shops bill out at $90.000 and higher. Best thing to do is have a drawing of your part or parts and get quotes from several shops and order as many as you can. Just using the word prototype can cost you more.

Reflection · 09-19-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Culetto

Just a question for those of you who might know. So i was at a local machine shop the other day, very impressive setup. Couple giant tool changing cnc mills and a giant cnc lathe, very professional.

I was there to talk to the owner about having some trick lower links made from a design i came up with and when we talked about prototyping costs i almost passed out. It was $1000 roughly to prototype 8 of them (2 sets) out of aluminum. Now, no, the design wasnt simple and when he put it into his cad system it looked brilliant and i can imagine that it will take several tools and at least 5 minutes in their high speed CNC. But im still shocked about the cost. I dont have a trust issue with these guys, one of my local team mates has known him for decades. I'm just looking for someone to say ''that sounds about right'' etc, or something to make me feel better, i feel bad for wasting his time but a grand is more than i can spring right now. Someone help me out here.

It's really hard to say if that $1000 is way to high or average without seeing them. Regular links...I'd say he's bumped his head.

Sounds like your design is more than that though.

Culetto · 09-19-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayhem Eng.

A $1000.00 sounds high.....But you have to keep in mind he needs to make money to stay open. Lets say he bills out at 75.00 to $90.00 an hour. He has to bring the part into he cad system, figure out how he is going to set it up, create a part prog. get it to a machine have one of his guys set it up, prove out the prog. to make sure he is making what you want and then go into production for 7 or 8 more parts. Lets say it takes him 6 and 8 hours.
6 hrs @ $75.00 $450.00 or @ $90.00 $540.00
8 hrs @ $75.00 $600.00 or @ $90.00 $720.00

Some will say 6 or 8 hours to make 8 parts? There is a lot more involved then people think, it's not just can you make these? This also didn't take into account any fixturing or special tooling.

Now some shops bill out at $90.000 and higher. Best thing to do is have a drawing of your part or parts and get quotes from several shops and order as many as you can. Just using the word prototype can cost you more.

I do believe that there was a special ''soft jaw'' or something like that that would have to be made. I agree with companies trying to stay open. Especially in this economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflection

It's really hard to say if that $1000 is way to high or average without seeing them. Regular links...I'd say he's bumped his head.

Sounds like your design is more than that though.

Ya its a bit more than a standard link.

nhopman · 09-19-2009, 03:52 PM

Might be worth having this co give you a price. I've never had anything done by them so I don't know if they'd be reasonable or not.

http://www.emachineshop.com/

mississippirocs · 09-19-2009, 05:43 PM

I know there are several guys on here that have CNC machines at the homes or shops. You might could try to work out something with them for the prototype and then have your local guy do the production run after the part was perfected since all he would have to do is import your file and set his machine up. Good luck in your hunt. I am sure that the parts will be awesome once we get a looksy

C*H*U*D · 09-19-2009, 09:23 PM

$1,000 seems a bit high, but not unreasonable. I think many people have a hard time understanding why having just a few "small" parts made, costs so much money. If you have a shop set up the tooling and set up the CAM programs to run your parts, it's going to take the better part of a day. Complicated setups will take longer......make softjaws with multiple setups and all bets are off. Even in this economy, it's not worth the time to set up a machining center to run "one" set of links.

I've done machining work here for a few people, and try to cut fellow crawlers a break, but I don't make money doing it......I have gotten to the point where I am finishing up the projects I've started, and will probably not do any more......I need/want to focus on my own projects.

Your best bet, like mississippirocs says, is get your prototypes done by a buddy or someone willing to help you out. Then, when you are sure, go to your machinist to pump out hundreds or more......that's when you see the price drop

mutiny22 · 09-19-2009, 09:39 PM

For those links $1000 sounds about right. Maybe just a little high.

landon4 · 09-19-2009, 09:46 PM

That seems about right the shop I worked at we ran some pretty big cnc machining centers and the parts we produced for Baker Hughes cost around $90,000 to $100,000 they charged $350 per hour per machine, of course that pretty much covered our pay, set up time which sometimes can take a few hours at least, and tooling cost, there is alot to figure in for machining processes that some people overlook. I mean just to drill a hole it takes more than one tool you first will center drill it then you will drill it then put it on size with an endmill then maybe run a chamfer tool on it to knock the burr down some and thats just one hole imagine multiple holes it takes alot of time.

Culetto · 09-20-2009, 03:01 AM

OK thanks guys. I never thought i was getting ripped, i was just shocked. I guess i just didnt understand the process. I didnt think it would be cheap but i guess i didnt look at it in right perspective. Its still more than i can pay right now. LOL.

CadToChrome · 09-20-2009, 08:32 AM

We may be able to help, If you will send us some drawings or cad we will take a look and see what we can do for you.

Chuck

ggooler · 09-20-2009, 12:29 PM

prototype guitar amp chassis would cost us 500-600 a piece. then
after thy went to production the cost was down to 20-30 dollars. its all in the numbers and to what everyone else said in the prior posts.

lksyotas · 09-20-2009, 06:29 PM

firstcut.com is another rapid prototype house that specializes in short run parts. It is really easy to use if you have a solid model or drawing of what you are looking to have done and they will get back to you with a quote.

I recently had them do a set of Stainless Steel wheels for my crawler. They quoted me $644 for four pieces. So I would say your quote you received is a bit high but again, if your links are really "unique" then it could be up near $1000. As others have said, there is a lot of setup time involved usually between programming and actually running good parts to print.

http://www.firstcut.com/

A sister company is protomold.com. They specialize in injection molded parts. My company uses them often for rapid prototype parts to verify design intent prior to kicking off full blown production molds that cost in excess of $200K per mold. You get quality parts and quick turn around time but they might have higher than wanted costs involved in the proto mold...

Racer4Life · 09-20-2009, 07:52 PM

Once you earn a repore with the shop you will see the price come down a good bit. Understand you are just some guy walking into a shop wanting a little part made.

Remember the 14 yr old kids in a car stereo shop or a custom wheel store. Asking tons of questions and you knew they would never buy anything.

Same thing here. They throw out a big price and figure they will scare you and you will go home.

Harley · 09-20-2009, 09:42 PM

The biggest thing is simple design. If it were easy to make the cool parts we would all have them. I can see $1000 easy if your links are way over complicated.

binaryterror · 09-21-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley0706

The biggest thing is simple design. If it were easy to make the cool parts we would all have them. I can see $1000 easy if your links are way over complicated.

X2...designing simple for the machines helps a great deal.

The type of file you provide, if it's just 2D or not in IGEs can also increase costs.

tpliquid · 09-21-2009, 11:31 AM

1000 seems right for 8 pieces. My Tamiya FF01 rear shock tower design that I sent to 20 or so machine shops range from $85 - $400 for 1.

You just got to shop around and if you know how to draw with autocad or solidworks then I think that be cheaper since all they do is import it into the machine and click the lines instead of drawing the whole thing.

I suggest you try craigslist for machine shops. Try looking for a small shop where there is only 1-2 people working there. They are most likely to give you the best price since they do not have to pay out employees and large overhead costs. The shop that I goto is very small and he is subleasing it from some lady who uses it to store stuff. He is the only person there so the prices he gives me are really good.

Here is my drawing for the mount and that cost me $85 for 1.

sweli · 09-21-2009, 12:28 PM

$2k+ gets you a 12" CNC.

http://www.sherline.com/8540pg.htm

I have a 20yr old manual mill version of this.

Culetto · 09-21-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweli

$2k+ gets you a 12" CNC.

http://www.sherline.com/8540pg.htm

I have a 20yr old manual mill version of this.

I'm looking in this direction now. At the cost i think i would get alot more out of it since my dremel is tired from always hand making my custom parts.

09-19-2009, 11:20 AM	#1
Culetto RCC Addict Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,332	Prototyping Costs Just a question for those of you who might know. So i was at a local machine shop the other day, very impressive setup. Couple giant tool changing cnc mills and a giant cnc lathe, very professional. I was there to talk to the owner about having some trick lower links made from a design i came up with and when we talked about prototyping costs i almost passed out. It was $1000 roughly to prototype 8 of them (2 sets) out of aluminum. Now, no, the design wasnt simple and when he put it into his cad system it looked brilliant and i can imagine that it will take several tools and at least 5 minutes in their high speed CNC. But im still shocked about the cost. I dont have a trust issue with these guys, one of my local team mates has known him for decades. I'm just looking for someone to say ''that sounds about right'' etc, or something to make me feel better, i feel bad for wasting his time but a grand is more than i can spring right now. Someone help me out here.

09-19-2009, 09:23 PM	#8
CHU*D No idea what I'm doing Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Underground, CO Posts: 4,529	$1,000 seems a bit high, but not unreasonable. I think many people have a hard time understanding why having just a few "small" parts made, costs so much money. If you have a shop set up the tooling and set up the CAM programs to run your parts, it's going to take the better part of a day. Complicated setups will take longer......make softjaws with multiple setups and all bets are off. Even in this economy, it's not worth the time to set up a machining center to run "one" set of links. I've done machining work here for a few people, and try to cut fellow crawlers a break, but I don't make money doing it......I have gotten to the point where I am finishing up the projects I've started, and will probably not do any more......I need/want to focus on my own projects. Your best bet, like mississippirocs says, is get your prototypes done by a buddy or someone willing to help you out. Then, when you are sure, go to your machinist to pump out hundreds or more......that's when you see the price drop Last edited by CHUD; 09-20-2009 at 09:25 AM.*

09-20-2009, 06:29 PM	#14
lksyotas Newbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Southern Tier, NY Posts: 38	firstcut.com is another rapid prototype house that specializes in short run parts. It is really easy to use if you have a solid model or drawing of what you are looking to have done and they will get back to you with a quote. I recently had them do a set of Stainless Steel wheels for my crawler. They quoted me $644 for four pieces. So I would say your quote you received is a bit high but again, if your links are really "unique" then it could be up near $1000. As others have said, there is a lot of setup time involved usually between programming and actually running good parts to print. http://www.firstcut.com/ A sister company is protomold.com. They specialize in injection molded parts. My company uses them often for rapid prototype parts to verify design intent prior to kicking off full blown production molds that cost in excess of $200K per mold. You get quality parts and quick turn around time but they might have higher than wanted costs involved in the proto mold... Last edited by lksyotas; 09-20-2009 at 06:32 PM.

09-21-2009, 11:31 AM	#18
tpliquid Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: san jose Posts: 293	1000 seems right for 8 pieces. My Tamiya FF01 rear shock tower design that I sent to 20 or so machine shops range from $85 - $400 for 1. You just got to shop around and if you know how to draw with autocad or solidworks then I think that be cheaper since all they do is import it into the machine and click the lines instead of drawing the whole thing. I suggest you try craigslist for machine shops. Try looking for a small shop where there is only 1-2 people working there. They are most likely to give you the best price since they do not have to pay out employees and large overhead costs. The shop that I goto is very small and he is subleasing it from some lady who uses it to store stuff. He is the only person there so the prices he gives me are really good. Here is my drawing for the mount and that cost me $85 for 1. Last edited by tpliquid; 09-21-2009 at 11:38 AM.

09-19-2009, 11:54 AM	#2
Nova's Ark Tire&Foam Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: C.I. Compound, Tyler, Texas Posts: 5,601	I have been shopping a few ideas around to local shops and that sounds right. What's crazy is that even with high production, the costs don't go down much. They tell me, "go to China, we can't make it that cheap". I think it's total crap personally. I want my products American made. If you look around your area, there has to be someone that can do it cheaper. Either that, or hit some of the vendors with shops here on RCC. There has to be a way to have products made here in the States and still be profitable.

09-19-2009, 12:06 PM	#3
Mayhem Eng. I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,814	A $1000.00 sounds high.....But you have to keep in mind he needs to make money to stay open. Lets say he bills out at 75.00 to $90.00 an hour. He has to bring the part into he cad system, figure out how he is going to set it up, create a part prog. get it to a machine have one of his guys set it up, prove out the prog. to make sure he is making what you want and then go into production for 7 or 8 more parts. Lets say it takes him 6 and 8 hours. 6 hrs @ $75.00 $450.00 or @ $90.00 $540.00 8 hrs @ $75.00 $600.00 or @ $90.00 $720.00 Some will say 6 or 8 hours to make 8 parts? There is a lot more involved then people think, it's not just can you make these? This also didn't take into account any fixturing or special tooling. Now some shops bill out at $90.000 and higher. Best thing to do is have a drawing of your part or parts and get quotes from several shops and order as many as you can. Just using the word prototype can cost you more.

09-19-2009, 03:52 PM	#6
nhopman Newbie Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Archdale/High Point Posts: 12	Might be worth having this co give you a price. I've never had anything done by them so I don't know if they'd be reasonable or not. http://www.emachineshop.com/

09-19-2009, 05:43 PM	#7
mississippirocs RCC Addict Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: MS Coast Posts: 1,535	I know there are several guys on here that have CNC machines at the homes or shops. You might could try to work out something with them for the prototype and then have your local guy do the production run after the part was perfected since all he would have to do is import your file and set his machine up. Good luck in your hunt. I am sure that the parts will be awesome once we get a looksy

09-19-2009, 09:39 PM	#9
mutiny22 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hesperia Posts: 274	For those links $1000 sounds about right. Maybe just a little high.

09-19-2009, 09:46 PM	#10
landon4 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Splendora Posts: 477	That seems about right the shop I worked at we ran some pretty big cnc machining centers and the parts we produced for Baker Hughes cost around $90,000 to $100,000 they charged $350 per hour per machine, of course that pretty much covered our pay, set up time which sometimes can take a few hours at least, and tooling cost, there is alot to figure in for machining processes that some people overlook. I mean just to drill a hole it takes more than one tool you first will center drill it then you will drill it then put it on size with an endmill then maybe run a chamfer tool on it to knock the burr down some and thats just one hole imagine multiple holes it takes alot of time.

09-20-2009, 03:01 AM	#11
Culetto RCC Addict Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,332	OK thanks guys. I never thought i was getting ripped, i was just shocked. I guess i just didnt understand the process. I didnt think it would be cheap but i guess i didnt look at it in right perspective. Its still more than i can pay right now. LOL.

09-20-2009, 08:32 AM	#12
CadToChrome Quarry Creeper Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oakley Posts: 219	We may be able to help, If you will send us some drawings or cad we will take a look and see what we can do for you. Chuck

09-20-2009, 12:29 PM	#13
ggooler Pebble Pounder Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: gig harbor Posts: 160	prototype guitar amp chassis would cost us 500-600 a piece. then after thy went to production the cost was down to 20-30 dollars. its all in the numbers and to what everyone else said in the prior posts.

09-20-2009, 07:52 PM	#15
Racer4Life I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: In Cali. Posts: 4,109	Once you earn a repore with the shop you will see the price come down a good bit. Understand you are just some guy walking into a shop wanting a little part made. Remember the 14 yr old kids in a car stereo shop or a custom wheel store. Asking tons of questions and you knew they would never buy anything. Same thing here. They throw out a big price and figure they will scare you and you will go home.

Sponsored Links

09-20-2009, 09:42 PM	#16
Harley 20K Club Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sending illegals home one Hayabusa at a time. Posts: 22,981	The biggest thing is simple design. If it were easy to make the cool parts we would all have them. I can see $1000 easy if your links are way over complicated.

09-21-2009, 12:28 PM	#19
sweli RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 1,898	$2k+ gets you a 12" CNC. http://www.sherline.com/8540pg.htm I have a 20yr old manual mill version of this.

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