What is "Forward Progress"?

[Greatscott]

I have a complicated question about what the rule book means by "forward progress". It is soooo complicated, I made a drawing....



So, the drive hits position 1 and needs to reverse, he (or she) reverses to position 2 (and reverse point is awarded), he moves forward to position 3 and needs to reverse again, is another reverse point awarded, or is position 1 the point that he has to pass to to be considered as having 'forward progress'? Or, is each time the truck starts rolling forward for a reverse considered 'forward progress'?

Thanks.

[dirtyal]

As soon as the truck moves forward from the point you stopped at it would be forward progress. So if you back up 10 feet move forward 1 inch then back up again it would be 2 reverse penalties.

[Nicklepimp]

Originally Posted by dirtyal

As soon as the truck moves forward from the point you stopped at it would be forward progress. So if you back up 10 feet move forward 1 inch then back up again it would be 2 reverse penalties.

In my best Ed McMahon voice:"You are correct Sir."

[ripper7777777]

Good question, cause I would have guessed wrong, "progress" is a confusing term in this instance, because it sounds like you need to make progress on the course, maybe it should read Forward Motion.

[Grizzly4x4]

In the old rules we had a rule about repositions where you could not reposition ahead of any forward progress. In that instance it referred to progress on the course.

In the reversing case. It refers to any forward progress of the vehicle as dirtyal stated.
Another example for you. The driver reverses from position 1 to position 2 and gets a reverse penalty. He then tries to go forward but finds that he is stuck on a rock and although his tires turn in the forward direction, the vehicle does not move. The driver can then reverse again, without another reverse penalty, because the vehicle did not make forward progress from position 2.

[Greatscott]

Wow, who knew that fun could be so complicated...

It your example Grizzly4x4, I thought the rule referred to the direction of wheel movement and not the chassis movement.

Yes, I'm splitting hairs here. I'm a relative noob to crawling and a total noob to competing. I boned up on the rules before completing for the first time and I trying to ask questions to issues that made me scratch my head during the comp that aren't clear-cut in the rule book.

Thanks.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by Greatscott

Wow, who knew that fun could be so complicated...

It your example Grizzly4x4, I thought the rule referred to the direction of wheel movement and not the chassis movement.

Check out example 7.1.5.2 on page 6 of the rules. It clearly states that after a reverse, if the vehicle does not move forward but the tires do, another reverse is not penalized. Until the vehicle makes forward progress (moves forward).
http://www.usrcca.com/rules2008.pdf

[Greatscott]

You're a God!
Thanks!

[Grizzly4x4]

Pasted this over because of the site data loss:

Originally Posted by Greatscott

You're a God!
Thanks!

Nah, I'm just one of the guys that wrote the rules so I know a thing or two about them.

Originally Posted by JPH Racing

Ok, one more confusing one ....

The truck is stuck on it's side, in a v shaped crack in the rock .... If the driver applies forward thottle, the top of the tires hits and the truck goes backwards .... If he hits reverse throttle, the tires spin reverse, but the truck goes forward. He's trying to get out of the situation, moving several feet in eaither direction, how many reverses does he get?

Thanks guys!

Like Fish said, it's the judges call first to determine if the vehicle is laying on it's side enough to be considered rolled over. If it is determined that the vehicle is "rolled over", then the forward and reverse movement of the vehicle would not be penalized until the vehicle is back on it's wheels.

I have seen situations similar to what you are saying and the vehicle was not considered "rolled over". If I was judging I would say that when the driver first tries to go forward, and the vehicle goes backwards, it is not a penalty. I would use example 7.1.3 on page 6 of the rules as an example. The vehicle is basically being moved backwards by the terrain even though the driver is trying to move forward.
If the driver then reverses to makes the vehicle move forward, and then makes the vehicle move in reverse again I would call a reverse. The reason it that now the driver should know what is happening and can make decisions about which direction the vehicle will move.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

IMO the change in position would equate to "Forward Progress" even though the vehicle is moving the oppisite way in this situation.

Its a judgement call that judges have to make. The same sitution call also result in the truck being close to "rollover" in which the driver gets FREE reverses.

When judging I try to give the drivers warning when they are getting close, and if the continue with such moves a penelty will result.

[jfraymond]

since this applies to "progress" I figured i would post it up here.

Is the gate marker itself considered part of the "Gate" when a gate straddle is attempted?

If one wheel from the front axle and one wheel from the rear axle runs over the gate then is progress awarded along with the 10 point gate penalty.?

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by jfraymond

If one wheel from the front axle and one wheel from the rear axle runs over the gate then is progress awarded along with the 10 point gate penalty.?

100% correct

[jfraymond]

and just for clarification, that is any part of the gate...i can just clip the outside edge of with a tire from each axle?

also what about order? for example, take a gate set on a impossible ledge.....could i drive around and come in from on top of the ledge at the side of a gate and drop my front over the ledge and then reverse dig a front tire back thru the gate in the intended direction and then turn around and back my rear in at a angle to just below the gate and then turn/dig back and drive my rear tire over the gate in the intended direction? which would be 10pt gate + 2 reverses instead of taking the full 20 pt for the bypass?

[Spucknit]

If you straddled the gate two different times, wouldn't that be 20 points.

[jfraymond]

Originally Posted by Spucknit

If you straddled the gate two different times, wouldn't that be 20 points.

once a gate is dead (10 pts) its dead.