What do you carry?

[cbr6fs]

I think over here in Europe most countries have a pretty good balance with regards to gun control.

Only real exception is with regard to pistols.

I do believe that there is absolutely no need for a civvy to carry a concealed firearm.
As such you do start to think well if we don't need a concealed firearm then why exactly do we need pistols?

A pistol is basically a gun that balances concealment against ability to kill another human being.
If concealment is not needed in civilian society then that should in theory mean pistols are surplus to requirements for civilians.

BUT i did used to enjoy a fair bit of sport pistol shooting before they were all banned.
So i agree that pistols do not serve any purpose in civilian society here in Europe, but sport pistols should have had an exception in the UK.

The other weird thing is, here in Greece you are not allowed to hunt with anything that has a rifled bore.
As i used to really enjoy air rifle hunting in the UK this really drives me crazy.

What makes it worse is the fact that no licence or restriction is put on a air rifles velocity over here (unlike the UK which has a 12 ft/lbf limit on air rifles unless you have a FAC).
So although you can't hunt with a air rifle i could order a 40 ft/lbf rifle tomorrow that'd kill pretty much anything with a well placed shot, still not needing a licence :shock:



With regard to the second amendment, without wanting to sound dismissive, it really makes absolutely no sense to most of us European types.
The way we see it is, this is a document that was drawn up near on 400 hundred years ago (Bill of rights), there was absolutely no way-shape-or-form that anyone from those times could have foreseen the amount of crime and murder rate within the country.

It's also my understanding that this amendment was bought about to bear arms with regard to the government?

Either way if the quality and quantity of life and society is dramatically improved as a result of dumping this right to bear arms, then it'd have to be a pretty stubborn and closed mind person to go against it, knowing full well it means their kids and grand kids will live in a better world.

Tough call.
But as in Europe i see absolutely no need for a civilian to have a need to carry a concealed firearm.
This from a guy that at 17 rode his push bike across the US (ok so just most of the way ), slept at the side of the road most nights and worked some pretty dead end jobs, in some pretty dead end towns to enable the completion of the journey.

There is an obvious need to have guns in some parts of the country, especially for those of us that have a calling to the outdoors type lifestyle, but shoot a bear with a hand gun, even something like a .40 and all you'll do is piss it off.

So even in this case hand guns are pretty much useless.

 

[demonoid369]

A single firecracker? lmao

wallet is in the car, pic taken with an OG Droid, yes that's an empty Doritos bag

Were you talking about my pic? Lol I just randomly had it in my pocket lol I carry random things all the time


Sent from my Pc using a keyboard

 

[jason]

What is the thing under the first key?

I do believe that there is absolutely no need for a civvy to carry a concealed firearm.
As such you do start to think well if we don't need a concealed firearm then why exactly do we need pistols?

If criminals followed the law then I would almost agree, but when they have no regard for the law the fact that they have no idea who may or may not have a gun and be ready to fight back does help keep things in check.

With regard to the second amendment, without wanting to sound dismissive, it really makes absolutely no sense to most of us European types.
The way we see it is, this is a document that was drawn up near on 400 hundred years ago (Bill of rights), there was absolutely no way-shape-or-form that anyone from those times could have foreseen the amount of crime and murder rate within the country.

Our entire government is based on several documents written 220 years ago, I agree they couldn't forsee everything that could happen into the future, they did write the bill of rights granting us 10 basic rights everyone throughout time should have.

Do you think they could have forseen all of the crazy religions that have popped up? Do you think they could have forseen some of the stuff people talk about or sing about now? No way, but those things are protected under the first amendment.

Do you think the government should be able to barge into your home and go through everything you own? No way, that's protected under the 4th amendment.

I could go on about every amendment and give the same examples. I find it crazy how many people say they the 2nd amendment shouldn't apply anymore, but all the rest should.

It's also my understanding that this amendment was bought about to bear arms with regard to the government?

US courts have declared that the second amendment exists for 2 reasons, one being self defense, the other is to allow the American people to resist tyranny from our government.

Either way if the quality and quantity of life and society is dramatically improved as a result of dumping this right to bear arms, then it'd have to be a pretty stubborn and closed mind person to go against it, knowing full well it means their kids and grand kids will live in a better world.

The US has an estimated 283,000,000 guns, to think you could simply make them illegal and they would all go away is crazy. The entire basis of a criminal is that they don't follow the law.

For felons in the US it is already illegal to own guns, they don't seem to mind though.

 

[redbaron]

But I am willing to bet the only pictures posted are people showing their weapons lol.

I'd bet the ones that posted with them in the holsters were not just for the photos! I can assure you mine wasn't. Its on my side all the time, as long as its legal to carry where I am at. "thumbsup"

 

[Blazefighter]

Here's my EDC

I think more good law abiding citizens need to carry. Like Jason said, crime can happen anywhere, any time. You never know whose life you could save. Maybe your wife or your kids.

 

[redbaron]

Damn, I didn't know pager even still existed!!

 

[dezfan]

With regard to the second amendment, without wanting to sound dismissive, it really makes absolutely no sense to most of us European types.

The way we see it is, this is a document that was drawn up near on 400 hundred years ago (Bill of rights), there was absolutely no way-shape-or-form that anyone from those times could have foreseen the amount of crime and murder rate within the country.

It's also my understanding that this amendment was bought about to bear arms with regard to the government?

Either way if the quality and quantity of life and society is dramatically improved as a result of dumping this right to bear arms, then it'd have to be a pretty stubborn and closed mind person to go against it, knowing full well it means their kids and grand kids will live in a better world.

But as in Europe i see absolutely no need for a civilian to have a need to carry a concealed firearm.

Feel free to enlighten yourself.

http://www.rense.com/general2/right.htm

 

[XSRCdesign]

Wallet, keys, carmex (fugging addicting) iPhone and Blackberry.

Depending where I'm going the iPad comes too.

 

[cbr6fs]

What is the thing under the first key?

Nothing too interesting unfortunately.
It's a interlock cheat key so i can run certain systems with the panels/doors open

If criminals followed the law then I would almost agree, but when they have no regard for the law the fact that they have no idea who may or may not have a gun and be ready to fight back does help keep things in check.

If a criminal followed the law though, they wouldn't be crims :mrgreen:

In all seriousness though, as a bit of a twatty teenager i used to get into a fair few fights in my younger years.

If i had on me a CCW then without a shadow of a doubt i would still be in prison now, it's this exact philosophy that leads me to stop myself carrying a knife.

Our entire government is based on several documents written 220 years ago, I agree they couldn't forsee everything that could happen into the future, they did write the bill of rights granting us 10 basic rights everyone throughout time should have.

Do you think they could have forseen all of the crazy religions that have popped up? Do you think they could have forseen some of the stuff people talk about or sing about now? No way, but those things are protected under the first amendment.

Do you think the government should be able to barge into your home and go through everything you own? No way, that's protected under the 4th amendment.

I could go on about every amendment and give the same examples. I find it crazy how many people say they the 2nd amendment shouldn't apply anymore, but all the rest should.

To quote Einstein.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

The system currently in place in the US is not working now (with regard to gun laws).
I have absolutely no doubt you are a logical responsible man Jason, people like you are in the minority though (not a cheap stab at the US, i'm talking the world over).
I know a fair few folks around the area i live, work with, socialise with etc that i wouldn't trust with a sharp object, never mind a gun.

We all know people like this.
It's an unfortunate circumstance of society, but we need to watch out for these plebs, we need to protect these plebs and their families because if they came into possession of a firearm someone in that household is going to an early grave without a shadow of a doubt.

Be it accident, temper, drink or just plain stupidity.

At the risk of sounding dismissive (not my intention)
What US citizens have or don't have rights too means absolutely nothing to me.

If kids are dying because their arseholes of parents are not responsible enough to lock away a gun, then we as a society in general have a moral obligation to protect those kids from their ignorant parents.

US courts have declared that the second amendment exists for 2 reasons, one being self defense, the other is to allow the American people to resist tyranny from our government.


The US has an estimated 283,000,000 guns, to think you could simply make them illegal and they would all go away is crazy. The entire basis of a criminal is that they don't follow the law.

For felons in the US it is already illegal to own guns, they don't seem to mind though.

I think it's impossible to generalise a "criminal"

Lets say you have a CCW, you get a call from a mate asking you to pick him up from the pub/bar as he's had a few too many to drive.

On leaving the bar your mate gets into a fight with a guy he shoulder barged on the way out.
The guy decks your mate with one punch, fair fight, no kicking when down.

Your mate grabs onto you, gets your gun and shoots the guy dead.

Like it or not this type of thing happens on a pretty regular basis, be it a mates gun or his own gun, mix alcohol a male ego and a gun and it's a volatile mix.
Your mate then gets what 10 to 15 for manslaughter and becomes a criminal.

All this simply because a gun was accessible.

We all make mistakes, we've punched a guy once to much, picked something up like a chair in a fight, generally lost our tempers.
For the majority of us our lack of control caused no lasting damage, their headaches went away, bruises healed.
Shoot someone in a moment of rage or passion though and there is no getting away from that, it's serious.

Putting criminals to one side (as you correctly said they'd find guns any ways) lets say we woke up tomorrow and all civilian hand guns had magically vanished.
Just imagine how many life's that'd safe at moments of rage or passion, or life's that'd save from accidental discharges, kids playing with guns, suicides etc etc.

Sure people will still find a wy of murdering one another, but it'd be that little bit more difficult enough to most most IMO.


So i'm extremely happy with the European gun laws (except sport pistols).
Sure people still get shot, crims still find guns, but crims are predictable, i know what they are going to go for, where they're going to try getting it and how.
So for the most part i can fot burglar alarms, not go to certain areas at certain times, walk with my head a bit higher and a bit of a swagger in my step past certain groups, and hide a few baseball bats around the house in case everything else fails.

As a final kinda e.g.
My best mate used to break into houses as a kid, at 15 he got caught and battered by the home owner.
He went to offenders school and turned his life around.
Now he is a kick ass bloke, runs his own business employing 50 odd people, has 3 fantastic kids and runs 4 marathons a year 100% for charity.

If that home owner had a gun, judging by his scars he still has 30 years later i'm 100% the home owner would have shot my mate.

Sure he shouldn't have been there, sure he was a twat, he was stealing and invading other peoples property.
But the home owner would have got a life sentence a the world i'd be missing a decent bloke.


Cheers
Mark

 

[cbr6fs]

Feel free to enlighten yourself.

http://www.rense.com/general2/right.htm

Thanks for the link dezfan "thumbsup"

Again at the risk of sounding dismissive i honestly don't care a toot about American laws or rules set out hundreds of years ago.

It's really no better than some radical religious fundamentalist whipping his wife to death as that's how he "interpreted" some book that was written even longer ago.

The fact remains if all civilian hand guns were melted down tomorrow America would be a safer place.

Bad things would still happen for an absolute certainty.
But it takes nerve, strength and either a manic rage/passion or a psychotic frame of mind to stab or strangle someone to death.

Most folks simply wouldn't have it in them IMO.

 

[cbr6fs]

Here's my EDC

I think more good law abiding citizens need to carry. Like Jason said, crime can happen anywhere, any time. You never know whose life you could save. Maybe your wife or your kids.

What's the rock for please?

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

What's the rock for please?

Run out of bullets, throw the gun. Once the gun is gone, chuck the rock. Duh. :roll:

 

[jason]

Edit: damn you guys post fast this was in reply to cbr6fs's post #89

I agree with parts of your post, I totally understand there are good and bad things about gun ownership and legalization. I will just say that right now at this point in time where the world is at and how things are I am glad that I as an American have the right to protect myself.

Think of how many lives we'd save if we made cars illegal! Think of how many lives we'd save if we made motorcycles illegal! Think of how many lives we'd save if we made alcohol illegal.

We could go on and on...

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Think of how many lives we'd save if we made cars illegal!

True, but nobody robs a bank and starts a crash-up-derby as they try to escape.

 

[cbr6fs]

Run out of bullets, throw the gun. Once the gun is gone, chuck the rock. Duh. :roll:

:mrgreen:

Edit: damn you guys post fast this was in reply to
Think of how many lives we'd save if we made cars illegal! Think of how many lives we'd save if we made motorcycles illegal! Think of how many lives we'd save if we made alcohol illegal.

We could go on and on...

Aye but not many cars are used intentionally to take another humans lifes, even fewer motorbikes (if they have any sense).

It's also the old adage that 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Just because people are dying by another method it makes it no less tragic for the family and friends of victims of shootings.


When i was a lad you'd square off man to man (or youth to youth), it took skill, determination and a fair dollop of fitness to take the other guy down most the time (lucky punch aside).

If you squared up to someone it took balls (or vast quantities of alcohol) as even if you rated your chances you knew the other guy i'd get a few punch in at least.

With guns it just seems so much easier and more cowardly.
Be interesting to see how tough a lot of these gang bangers and crims would be without a gun, my bet is most i'd piss themselves rather than face off 1 on 1.


Any ways enough of my ramblings.
Thanks for a good discussion and thanks for your patience for going off topic "thumbsup"

 

[cbr6fs]

True, but nobody robs a bank and starts a crash-up-derby as they try to escape.

Well except this guy :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yoUaH6wGLs

 

[dezfan]

Thanks for the link dezfan "thumbsup"

Again at the risk of sounding dismissive i honestly don't care a toot about American laws or rules set out hundreds of years ago.

Time has no impact on fundimental truths.

"To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

~George Mason

 

[GySgt Hartman]

The system currently in place in the US is not working now (with regard to gun laws).

Please elaborate on this statement.

 

[sloppy]

True, but nobody robs a bank and starts a crash-up-derby as they try to escape.

Really are you sure?? I have seen several attempted robbery's using a vehicle to ram into the building.. I have seen a ATM ripped out of a building using a truck... How many police chases do you see on the news? Many of them end in a crash..

 

[Mr.Slave]

Please elaborate on this statement.

well sir we seem to have a gun problem on our hands, any ideas?

...
...
... more guns?

Brilliant!


nothing like am arms race to make you feel safe.