• Welcome to RCCrawler Forums.

    It looks like you're enjoying RCCrawler's Forums but haven't created an account yet. Why not take a minute to register for your own free account now? As a member you get free access to all of our forums and posts plus the ability to post your own messages, communicate directly with other members, and much more. Register now!

    Already a member? Login at the top of this page to stop seeing this message.

7 HP and Ft/Lbs from a drop in K&N?

B

BJoe

I wanna be Dave
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,628
Location
We-Go, Chi-Town, Ill
I was looking to see if K&N offer a panel filter for the Pentastar powered 200's and the comment I saw was;

Purchased the k&n drop in air filter for my new 2011 dodge avenger with the 3.6L engine. Dyno'd my car with both the stock air filter and the k&n air filter back to back... The results showed a 7 hp gain at 5400 rpm and a 7 lb/ft gain at 4000 rpm. The hype, to me, is now substantial. K&N filters alone can improve the performance of a vehicle.
Click to expand...
Now I did seem to notice a slight (and I mean a very slight) difference when I put one in my Lebaron GTS Turbo and 4.0l Cherokee, but nothing major. The factory airbox on the 200 and Avenger does have an inlet scoop right at the hood opening, but I haven't gotten around to investigating how direct it is for incoming air from that scoop to the filter.
20120407_170319.jpg


Anybody else think that the above commentor's claim BS too?
 
I don't think 7 hp or 7 ft/lbs is enough to make any noticBle boost in performance, especially in a heavy vehicle like a LeBaron, Avenger, or Cherokee. Heck, even in a Civic hb, you'd be hard pressed to notice anything.

IMO, the only way to have fun is by adding big power adders such as nitrous, or forced induction. And obviously, you'd want all the basics for max benefit of the power adders.
 
K&N's provide better filtration and that's it. I see a lot of +50 HP!!!!1 claims, but I've never seen it backed up with actual airflow numbers from a flow bench.

There's a lot of variables in a chassis dyno, and 7 HP ain't that much. Could be the tires were warmed up by the first run.

Show me the science.
 
The Lebaron I had was pretty light to start with (approx 2800lbs) and got lighter as it rotted away. The Jeep and 200 should both be in the 3200-3600 pound range. I was just looking at the basics for the time being, I just thought the 7 hp and ft/lbs claim sounded questionable at best. Mopar does offer a CIA kit (possibly made for them by AEM), but at nearly $300 a drop in K&N sounds like better choice. I do think it would be interesting to see what a little dyno time would produce, but I think running maybe 3-4 pulls on each filter while making sure it doesn't go past 5th (which is the 1:1 gear) would be a good idea. Think I'd look for a place that had a Mustang Dyno too if I were going to try it (and maybe bring the Jeep with, see if the difference would be comparable there too.)
 
Last edited:
For what it's worth.......I've read that the K&N does indeed flow well, but doesn't filter well. This was from the wacko diesel guys that have their oil analyzed at every change, and with the K&N they had high amounts of silica (sand) in the oil. Change the filter out for something else, the silica content in the oil went down.

My opinion is that the automakers wouldn't intentionally and knowingly use an overly restrictive filter. If they could advertise 5 more hp by using a less restrictive filter (assuming it did filter well), why wouldn't they?
 
i dont think changing the filter thats still inside the factory intake box is going to add 7HP. with all the factory muffles, rain baffles, acordian tubing, and fully enclosed filter box with 2.5" opening hole. i just dont see a factory flat filter swap gaining anything other than maintanence ease.

ill bet his factory filter had 200,000 miles and it and completely cloged with bugs and leaves. :lmao:
 
Manning said:
For what it's worth.......I've read that the K&N does indeed flow well, but doesn't filter well. This was from the wacko diesel guys that have their oil analyzed at every change, and with the K&N they had high amounts of silica (sand) in the oil. Change the filter out for something else, the silica content in the oil went down.

My opinion is that the automakers wouldn't intentionally and knowingly use an overly restrictive filter. If they could advertise 5 more hp by using a less restrictive filter (assuming it did filter well), why wouldn't they?
Click to expand...

You gotta remember the auto engineers have a lot more on their mind than horsepower numbers. That's why we have new cars with intake piping that resemble large intestines and exhausts with two mufflers. I would guess that the people who see a hp gain by adding a different filter changed something else too...
 
Duuuuuuuude said:
You gotta remember the auto engineers have a lot more on their mind than horsepower numbers. That's why we have new cars with intake piping that resemble large intestines and exhausts with two mufflers. I would guess that the people who see a hp gain by adding a different filter changed something else too...
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking too. A few guys have taken their V-6 200's to the strip both with the stock intake, exhaust , and tires, as well as the Mopar/Corsa cat back and Mopar CIA, and one even had ditched the stock Eagle LS2's for a stickier set of Falken's and the best quarter mile times for any of them have remained about the same for a well driven stocker. Sounds like the best way to truely unlock these cars once the CIA's and Exhaust go on is to get a programmer......which nobody makes as of yet for the 200 and Avenger (actually, any of the Pentastar powered cars) as of now.
 
Duuuuuuuude said:
You gotta remember the auto engineers have a lot more on their mind than horsepower numbers. That's why we have new cars with intake piping that resemble large intestines and exhausts with two mufflers. I would guess that the people who see a hp gain by adding a different filter changed something else too...
Click to expand...


Yep, absolutely. I still maintain that automakers would not knowingly use an overly restrictive filter. It's just not smart.
 
Manning said:
Yep, absolutely. I still maintain that automakers would not knowingly use an overly restrictive filter. It's just not smart.
Click to expand...

They wouldn't, but still their focus is on drivability, torque, and noise reduction. They are smart enough to understand that the world doesn't revolve around hp numbers on a dyno.

For all we know (and is most likely in my mind) the claimed 7 hp increase was probably found in a rpm range that 99% of the population rarely revs to. For a street car I'd rather see a torque increase down low as opposed to a hp increase up high.
 
I have a drop in K&N on my Grand, and there was a slight power increase. Now this may have just been a mind trick, but it did seem to help the pick up slightly, but not much at all. If I got any horsepower, I would say around 1 or 2. You only get a 7 HP increase with a full K&N Intake kit.
 
Duuuuuuuude said:
They wouldn't, but still their focus is on drivability, torque, and noise reduction. They are smart enough to understand that the world doesn't revolve around hp numbers on a dyno.

For all we know (and is most likely in my mind) the claimed 7 hp increase was probably found in a rpm range that 99% of the population rarely revs to. For a street car I'd rather see a torque increase down low as opposed to a hp increase up high.
Click to expand...

You are thinking of the entire intake system. The OP is referring to a filter only.
 
In an older Intrepid after a drop in k&n all that was really noticed was a bit more growl.. for an Intrepid lol

After getting a pickup and adding a catback exhaust, programmer and k&n repipe the change was alot more noticeable. As was said, anything dramatic would be forced induction or nitrous.

Strange things happen in one's brainmeats when one spends hard earned money on something one hopes will help.
 
microgoat said:
K&N's provide better filtration and that's it. I see a lot of +50 HP!!!!1 claims, but I've never seen it backed up with actual airflow numbers from a flow bench.

There's a lot of variables in a chassis dyno, and 7 HP ain't that much. Could be the tires were warmed up by the first run.

Show me the science.
Click to expand...

And as we all know, a flowbench does not translate into numbers. Just like measuring HP by how fast a car picks up over the last 1260 feet in a 1/4 mile. A wise man once said, "tuning is done on the dyno, hp is calculated on the strip."
 
What good is a high flow filter without one of these:
070521_Tornado_device.jpg

?!?!

You people obviously don't know shit about horsepower!
 
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jRpIhYwg7Tw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
K&N filters are truly a scam for a street car. To flow better, they filter less. Once they get a little dirty and start to filter as well as paper, they don't flow any better. The oil destroys MAF sensors, except K&N says they don't. Doesn't matter what K&N says when the customer is shelling out cash for a new MAF that I suppose just happened to fail shortly after putting in a K&N.
I use them on my race car and accept that my velocity stacks will have a film of oil dirt- but my engine isn't expected to last 100,000 miles like a street car.
Nobody's "butt dyno" can feel 7hp gain on a car, but the placebo effect and in some cases the sound sure make people think they made a race car out of a turd with an air filter.
Scam scam scam...
Same with intake kits that only ensure the hot engine compartment air is sucked in... even the ones with pathetic little shields that don't seal off the filter area.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top