Toyota 22R Guys chime in !

[1BadJeepBruiser]

As most of you may know I purchased chino63s 83 Hilux, and while I am extremely happy with the truck overall (it's what I have always wanted) it is extremely slooooooow :|. I spoke with Dean in depth about this yesterday and I was explaining to him how I don't understand why it feels so under powered compared to my 86 4runner which also had 35s/4.88. He then reminded me of the fact that the truck is a California spec model and that the California spec trucks actually came with a slightly smaller cam shaft to help with the tight smog regulations based out of California...

So with that said I have spent the better parts of yesterday and today researching how I can make the truck move a long a little bit better. I am posting this hear becuase I don't wanna deal with the BS on pirate and I have searched already I am just looking for some 1st hand experiences as I know there are quite a few members who have been probably wheeling toyotas since I was shitting in diapers :lmao:

For starters, I am not doing a 3rz swap or 2.7 or adding a turbo or super charger or anything like that...those are all out of the question.

5:13s/5:29s also out of the question, I cannot set gears myself (wasn't taught in all the schooling I had and toyota just replaced 3rd members ) and I have seen to many broken ring gears as well.

Truck already has an LCE header on it as well.

I am also emissions exempt as well, so I don't have to worry about that.

So far, my ideas are this...

Weber 32/36 carb and matched down draft dual plane intake manifold and fuel pressure regulator upgrade: truck has the factory asin carb and while the truck runs mint now (especially after a fresh tune up) the research I have done shows this carb is suppose to eliminate all the emissions BS, improve idle and over all drivability plus has support for jetting and easier rebuilding/servicing, allows for a more free flowing air intake as well.

Cam shaft: This seems to be the most effective upgrade that i have read about. Only downside is that the rocker assembly is held down by the head bolts :x truck is technically do for a timing chain set since its got 105k on it. While its not rattling at all I think it would be good to step up to a nice dual row chain. In my experience with these it's almost easier to for me to pop the head up off to do it so I don't run the risk of damaging the part of the head gasket that hangs over the timing chain cover. Since i worked for Toyota for years and Having rebuilt my 22re (twice actually) I can dissemble the motors with ease so the head gasket job doesnt have me worried. Considering eithers Engbldrs Cam or LCEs. Found a Dyno chart on pirate and these 2 had the best numbers.

Performance distributors DUI distributor: 100% water proof, eliminates expensive igniter that's prone to failing, stronger spark will burn fuel better etc

Electric fan: supposedly reduces the drag of the stock clutch fan and from what I have read is suppose to make a decent difference.

Other ideas, install test pipe in place of catalytic converter, free flowing muffler

I understand this motor is never gonna make crazy power, I'm not looking for that. I honestly like the fact that they aren't overkill as I never broke any axle components being on 35s locked/locked in my 4runner running black/red trails at Rausch Creek. I am just looking to not have to drop it from 5th to 4th for the slightest grade in the road.

Anyone who has 1st hand experience please chime in, if you read it in the Internet I don't need your help, I need guys who actually have had these rigs and daily drove them to and from the trail with similar set ups.

Truck has a doubler and 4.7:1 kit as well so I am not worried about loosing a little bit of low end torque, the reductions Will make up for that on the trail.

I am looking to improve the 2200-3000rpm range which is what the typical range is for road use.

Thanks
Mike

 

[BigSki]

Is it feasible to do a EFI swap on it? When I had a 'Yota, it had the 22RE in it. When I went to 33" tires it just killed the "power" that was there. 4.88 gears brought it back to life, well, as much life as there was to begin with. I know you don't want to swap gears, but 4.88's were a factory offering w/ a V6/automatic 4Runner with the FACTORY installed 31" tires so 3rd members might be reasonably easy to find. My truck was a Cali truck, so I never have any seat time to compare it against a truck with 49 state emissions.

Once I was regeared, I could use 5th gear on the freeways and cruise at 70mph with no problem.

 

[meatmonkey]

I've worked on a ton of 22R's and RE's. There's currently an 83 22R in my 89 woods truck with the stock EFI setup. I hear you on being to gutless to break parts, even though it's welded front and rear.

Never heard of the cali-emisioned versions getting smaller cams. I know they get nightmare vacuum operated EGR and PAIR systems that are ussually best off deleted completely.

Don't waste your time or money with the Weber. I've set up a couple and in the end they are no better than the stock carb, converted to manual choke.

I'd jack it up, mark the tires and driveshaft to verify that it's got 4.88's. Then weigh it to compare to your other truck. My woods truck is very bare bones, but carries alot of spare parts, and it's 3500 trail-ready. When you only have 100 horsepower you can practically feel the truck get slower as you add passengers, or fill up the gas tank.

Really though, don't waste your time or money trying to get reasonable power out of a 22R series. If it'll reach 70MPH with oversized tires your not doing to bad. To give you an idea, I believe that LC engineering will sell you a 22R built to the hilt, yet supposedly streetable, for over $4K, and it still doesn't hardly make 200HP. Starts to make finding a donor rig with a 4.3 sound like same HP for the money and much more torque.

Do a compression and leakdown test and if your over 150 be estatic and just drive the darn truck. It helps to remember, it's not slow, it is patience-inspiring.

While the electric fan may seem to reduce paristic losses, the early gen's alternator will be working much harder when the fan is on, costing almost the same HP. And shortening the alts lifespan.

If the stock cat is still on it than deleting that is worth a few HP and $.

If your lucky and it's an early 83 it might already have the dual row chain. I wasn't so lucky.

Got any pics of this survivor? I think there is 3 of those trucks still running the roads in all of rust-cancer stricken VT.

 

[chino63]

Hey Mike, I left you a message on your phone. Possibly the chain has stretched and retarding the timing? I've never been into the motor since it's only got 105k on it, only had to replaced the V/C gasket and fuel pump. Installed the rebuilt carb maybe 7 yeaars ago. Like I said, I was told that the CA vehicles may have a different cam but can't confirm that. The cat was replaced maybe 2 years ago before I had it smogged last, maybe it's getting plugged up. Simple way to tell, do a timed accel run and compare with the exhaust unbolted. It's always felt gutless as hell to me. I wan't to help figure it out, don't want you disappointed with the truck. "thumbsup"

 

[chino63]

I've worked on a ton of 22R's and RE's. There's currently an 83 22R in my 89 woods truck with the stock EFI setup. I hear you on being to gutless to break parts, even though it's welded front and rear.

Never heard of the cali-emisioned versions getting smaller cams. I know they get nightmare vacuum operated EGR and PAIR systems that are ussually best off deleted completely.

Don't waste your time or money with the Weber. I've set up a couple and in the end they are no better than the stock carb, converted to manual choke.

I'd jack it up, mark the tires and driveshaft to verify that it's got 4.88's. Then weigh it to compare to your other truck. My woods truck is very bare bones, but carries alot of spare parts, and it's 3500 trail-ready. When you only have 100 horsepower you can practically feel the truck get slower as you add passengers, or fill up the gas tank.

Really though, don't waste your time or money trying to get reasonable power out of a 22R series. If it'll reach 70MPH with oversized tires your not doing to bad. To give you an idea, I believe that LC engineering will sell you a 22R built to the hilt, yet supposedly streetable, for over $4K, and it still doesn't hardly make 200HP. Starts to make finding a donor rig with a 4.3 sound like same HP for the money and much more torque.

Do a compression and leakdown test and if your over 150 be estatic and just drive the darn truck. It helps to remember, it's not slow, it is patience-inspiring.

While the electric fan may seem to reduce paristic losses, the early gen's alternator will be working much harder when the fan is on, costing almost the same HP. And shortening the alts lifespan.

If the stock cat is still on it than deleting that is worth a few HP and $.

If your lucky and it's an early 83 it might already have the dual row chain. I wasn't so lucky.

Got any pics of this survivor? I think there is 3 of those trucks still running the roads in all of rust-cancer stricken VT.

Good info man! "thumbsup"

I owned the truck for about 10 years, never had to dig into the engine.

Here's a pic of it at KOH last month.

 

[1BadJeepBruiser]

I've worked on a ton of 22R's and RE's. There's currently an 83 22R in my 89 woods truck with the stock EFI setup. I hear you on being to gutless to break parts, even though it's welded front and rear.

Never heard of the cali-emisioned versions getting smaller cams. I know they get nightmare vacuum operated EGR and PAIR systems that are ussually best off deleted completely.

Don't waste your time or money with the Weber. I've set up a couple and in the end they are no better than the stock carb, converted to manual choke.

I'd jack it up, mark the tires and driveshaft to verify that it's got 4.88's. Then weigh it to compare to your other truck. My woods truck is very bare bones, but carries alot of spare parts, and it's 3500 trail-ready. When you only have 100 horsepower you can practically feel the truck get slower as you add passengers, or fill up the gas tank.

Really though, don't waste your time or money trying to get reasonable power out of a 22R series. If it'll reach 70MPH with oversized tires your not doing to bad. To give you an idea, I believe that LC engineering will sell you a 22R built to the hilt, yet supposedly streetable, for over $4K, and it still doesn't hardly make 200HP. Starts to make finding a donor rig with a 4.3 sound like same HP for the money and much more torque.

Do a compression and leakdown test and if your over 150 be estatic and just drive the darn truck. It helps to remember, it's not slow, it is patience-inspiring.

While the electric fan may seem to reduce paristic losses, the early gen's alternator will be working much harder when the fan is on, costing almost the same HP. And shortening the alts lifespan.

If the stock cat is still on it than deleting that is worth a few HP and $.

If your lucky and it's an early 83 it might already have the dual row chain. I wasn't so lucky.

Got any pics of this survivor? I think there is 3 of those trucks still running the roads in all of rust-cancer stricken VT.

Good feedback! I appreciate you taking the time to reply "thumbsup" I can also understand what you mean about just leaving it be however, I am not over exaggerating the fact that it has a very hard time to maintain 55 mph... I am not looking for a speed demon by any means, just in comparison to my 86 runner I could maintain 65 on the highway with light grades and never have to drop it from 5th.

On my days off this week I am going to check the cat, check timing and go from there. I will also check the chain, it doesnt make any noise and if its indeed a dual row I may not need to service it then which would save me 150$ roughly...

Hey Mike, I left you a message on your phone. Possibly the chain has stretched and retarding the timing? I've never been into the motor since it's only got 105k on it, only had to replaced the V/C gasket and fuel pump. Installed the rebuilt carb maybe 7 yeaars ago. Like I said, I was told that the CA vehicles may have a different cam but can't confirm that. The cat was replaced maybe 2 years ago before I had it smogged last, maybe it's getting plugged up. Simple way to tell, do a timed accel run and compare with the exhaust unbolted. It's always felt gutless as hell to me. I wan't to help figure it out, don't want you disappointed with the truck. "thumbsup"

Hey Dean,
Sorry I missed your call dude, phone was on vibrate still from work and then I was welding a frame on my friends quad and stuff for him. I never even considered that with the chain, however that would make quite a bit of sense because guys have complained of a power loss after decking the head significantly and not using an adjustable cam gear to get the timing back to where its suppose to be.

BTW I dont want you think I am disappointed! I am NOT at all! Like I told you, I literally have not touched the subie since I got it, I am that stoked about it still and have been taking it every where :mrgreen:

I am going to check timing and the cat and go from there, thanks for the feedback guys!

-Mike

 

[chino63]

Oh, one more thing, not sure I aired up after KOH since it spent the trip to and fro on the trailer... Maybe? :ror:

I run it at 35psi

 

[rc_pimp]

Adjust cam timing towards split overlap. It mad a bit of difference in my rig. I'll be honest though. I drove it for about an hour then pulled the 22r and put in some muscle. I understand you may not want to do this. I'm running a 400 SBC sm465 and twin stick np205 with 36" tsls. I haven't busted an axle yet and other than the slow shift of the 465 I have no complaints. Plus I can spank most any sports car in the quarter. I'm thinking about swapping in a th350 because the 465 and 205 in low range is almost useless here in Mississippi. The slow shift from second to third put me in a bind a few times. If you just want the 22r then start reading up on split overlap and do every little trick you can. Good luck bro.

 

[1BadJeepBruiser]

Been meaning to update this but been working in the mini me version because I actually solved most of the slowness........

I aired the tires up.... DERP

Sometimes my extreme technicalness gets the best of me and I forget to check the simple things...it goes a lot better with 35lbs of air in the tires rather then 12-14 that it had. I also checked timing and it was at factory base of 5* I bumped it to 8* and since I run on premium fuel anyways it's not detonating.

So far now I'm gonna leave it be, eventually when I have the extra funds ill do the cam but for now I'm just gonna order that HEI distributor and keep on trucking.

 

[Lentsnh2012]

The 22R and 22RE were never meant to be high performance motors. Enough though it is a huge 2.4L 4 banger, I still will struggle to keep up with 35" tires.

Cam: Yes, California emission Toyota vehicles had both a smaller cam as well as a bigger catalytic converter to make the Californians happy. If I'm not mistaken, Toyota's TRD department developed a slightly higher cam than what was in the later year 22RE's.

Conversion to EFI: You can EASILY do a EFI swap on the 22R. I have a friend locally that has enough EFI stuff to do 3 22R motor conversions. The 22R carbs were very small for what was out there during its time. I haven't checked Weber's products because I never had the need to (22RE owner). You could also bore out the carb...

Exhaust: Re-working your exhaust will drastically increase the chances of it performing better. The LCE header was a great choice by Dean, but it always has to have the rest to compliment it. Cut out that Catalytic converter and install a downpipe. Up the exhaust piping size to 2 1/2" (I think that is the correct size). You'll get a great sound and low end torque Are the headers Long tube or short tube?

Electric fan: Doing this will improve it by taking out the drag. You can go with the classic Ford Taurus fan and a hi flow radiator.

My 4Runer's 22RE has 312,000 miles on it. Original exhaust manifold, and original exhaust. Also it has 5.29s on 35" KM2s. Going to class in the cold mornings, it struggles to stay at 60. Now, when it becomes warmer, you can actually feel a surge of power throughout the gears to bring the 4Runner and I to a crusing speed of 75. That is PLENTY quick enough.

 

[1BadJeepBruiser]

The 22R and 22RE were never meant to be high performance motors. Enough though it is a huge 2.4L 4 banger, I still will struggle to keep up with 35" tires.

Cam: Yes, California emission Toyota vehicles had both a smaller cam as well as a bigger catalytic converter to make the Californians happy. If I'm not mistaken, Toyota's TRD department developed a slightly higher cam than what was in the later year 22RE's.

Conversion to EFI: You can EASILY do a EFI swap on the 22R. I have a friend locally that has enough EFI stuff to do 3 22R motor conversions. The 22R carbs were very small for what was out there during its time. I haven't checked Weber's products because I never had the need to (22RE owner). You could also bore out the carb...

Exhaust: Re-working your exhaust will drastically increase the chances of it performing better. The LCE header was a great choice by Dean, but it always has to have the rest to compliment it. Cut out that Catalytic converter and install a downpipe. Up the exhaust piping size to 2 1/2" (I think that is the correct size). You'll get a great sound and low end torque Are the headers Long tube or short tube?

Electric fan: Doing this will improve it by taking out the drag. You can go with the classic Ford Taurus fan and a hi flow radiator.

My 4Runer's 22RE has 312,000 miles on it. Original exhaust manifold, and original exhaust. Also it has 5.29s on 35" KM2s. Going to class in the cold mornings, it struggles to stay at 60. Now, when it becomes warmer, you can actually feel a surge of power throughout the gears to bring the 4Runner and I to a crusing speed of 75. That is PLENTY quick enough.

Don't you have to drill the block for the knock sensor...not sure how I feel about that...I have a turbo EFI parts truck but I'm not about to drill that block...it would crack with my luck

 

[jason]

You should have bought that 2wd truck with the LCE engine in it and swaped them out. I'll bet with your engine in the 2wd truck you could have sold it exactly for what you had in it.

 

[Lentsnh2012]

Don't you have to drill the block for the knock sensor...not sure how I feel about that...I have a turbo EFI parts truck but I'm not about to drill that block...it would crack with my luck

If I'm not mistaken, the 22R block should already have the hole there. The 22R and 22RE are the exact same block. The knock sensor hold should be to the left of the oil filter.

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Well researching a bit more, I have found out that 83-84 22R blocks didn't have the knock sensor hole, so you're correct, sir! My bad! If you want a chore, I have a 22RE block I can sell ya! The drill and tap size is 12 x 1.25mm. Take your time with it and it shouldn't crack!

 

[1BadJeepBruiser]

You should have bought that 2wd truck with the LCE engine in it and swaped them out. I'll bet with your engine in the 2wd truck you could have sold it exactly for what you had in it.

Believe if I had the money I would have... You do personal loans ;-):ror:"thumbsup"

 

[1BadJeepBruiser]

If I'm not mistaken, the 22R block should already have the hole there. The 22R and 22RE are the exact same block. The knock sensor hold should be to the left of the oil filter.

\/
\/
Well researching a bit more, I have found out that 83-84 22R blocks didn't have the knock sensor hole, so you're correct, sir! My bad! If you want a chore, I have a 22RE block I can sell ya! The drill and tap size is 12 x 1.25mm. Take your time with it and it shouldn't crack!

At 105k this thing is a baby...don't wanna mess with it that much. It's going a lot better since air up the tires and bumping the timing so for now I'm gonna keep riding. Appreciate the info and offer"thumbsup"

 

[dezfan]

Drop a VW diesel in it and be done! "thumbsup"

 

[chino63]

Drop a VW diesel in it and be done! "thumbsup"

That's what I wanted to do but I couldn't get a clear answer from the CA referee if it would be a go. Fukker said to go ahead and bring it back when done and he'd decide if it was going to be good to go or not. I called two other referee stations and one said it wouldn't fly, the other wasn't sure.

Other option was a 3rz but more cost and same issue with the local referee. :roll:

Now I have no smog issues to worry about. :ror:

 

[chris_snchez]

I personally own an 83 toyota pickup with a 22r and know what you mean when you say it`s slow, but remember it is also steady and reliable. I think if I regear mine to 4.88 gears I would get the little extra torque/power I need. I would look into regearing it if I were you most people run 5.29 with 35in tires. For now I am wishing to eventually gather enough money for a 3rz swap but that money is hard to come by when your 17 and don`t have a job. Just look on the bright side whenever your cut off by speedy drivers. Here`s a pic of my truck.

 

[Lentsnh2012]

At 105k this thing is a baby...don't wanna mess with it that much. It's going a lot better since air up the tires and bumping the timing so for now I'm gonna keep riding. Appreciate the info and offer"thumbsup"

I totally understand. 105K miles is VERY VERY low mileage for its age. I wish mine was that young sometimes but then I love the expression people give when I tell them my 4Runner has 312K miles. 8)

Airing up the tires and timing will help very much- Don't forget about that exhaust though!"thumbsup"

You could also drop in a 4BT. 265 lb of torque/ 105 HP.

 

[Lentsnh2012]

I personally own an 83 toyota pickup with a 22r and know what you mean when you say it`s slow, but remember it is also steady and reliable. I think if I regear mine to 4.88 gears I would get the little extra torque/power I need. I would look into regearing it if I were you most people run 5.29 with 35in tires. For now I am wishing to eventually gather enough money for a 3rz swap but that money is hard to come by when your 17 and don`t have a job. Just look on the bright side whenever your cut off by speedy drivers. Here`s a pic of my truck.

I love this truck!!!!! Is it stock or has it had the kit done to it? I have a friend looking for one to purchase. He could do a trade with a totally stock 1985 4Runner.