Crawllife
Fifth dimension
I agree. Getting a free pass to watch the course is a no brainer.
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2015 RC Crawling Worlds- Las Vegas Sept 11, 12, 13th
- Thread starter JohnRobHolmes
- Start date
If you guys can handle my bad english, i can also jugde if needed....
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It's better than my slow math.
Crawllife
Fifth dimension
Math is the reason I shy away but that's why I bring the old lady to verify. Lol
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Fishmaxx
I wanna be Dave
Tickets work.
The idea of paying dollars is not cost drivers more $$$ its to balance the work load.
I have said my piece and out on this topic,
JRH, I really hope you dont take this personal. I know I dont like it when people cry about the way I do things and what seems like criticism. For this, I apologize as I am being hypocritical. I am sorry. I hope you can see it as I intend it.
I really hope the number of courses can be reconsidered?
2.2p is the bread and butter. The majority of us show up for this class. To short it just to cram in other classes that many/most do not care about does not make sense. I think you have to give us a great 2.2p class with lots of courses. If 2.2p does not go well and people dont have a good time with it, I would go so far to say that the whole hobby will die with it.
3 or 4 courses does not find a winner. You need more courses to find a better average. When you have that few of courses, it then all comes down to luck and course knowledge, many courses finds the true champion.
It takes the same time for 50 competitors to do 1 course as it would take 50 competitors to do 50 courses.
The only reason it would take longer to run the courses is if the competitors do not run them in a timely fashion. At BOTW, I set it up so you had to run courses in a certain order. It went great and we were able to do 8 courses even with a significant rain delay.
I will wake up and set up every course if it brings us more courses. I know many others are willing to take this sacrifice too. 4-5am is not too big of a deal to me, probably wont be able to sleep past 5 anyway.
I am lucky that I am close to this location. I sympathize for the guys that have a long way to travel and a lot more money that needs to be spent. I imagine some of these guys could be spending $2k on this trip? I then think, how much are they paying per course if you were just to show up for 2.2p. Wow! Thats $500 PER COURSE! $100 PER MINUTE! Thats crazy!
I really think its owed to everybody to pack in as much drive time as possible. There is no doubt I can make this happen even if its just me pulling all the weight and I am willing to do it.
Again, sorry for the rant and I hope you dont take it personal as that is not the intention. I, like you and everybody else, just want to have a fun filled comp.
Crawllife
Fifth dimension
I'm not showing Liz the the math Erik came up with! I hope for more pro courses as well.
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winnerone23
I wanna be Dave
Then don't ever figure out what a DUI costs, per drink...
It makes the, price per course, look cheap! Lol...
Crawllife
Fifth dimension
Krawler Kev
Rock Crawler
I'll second that. I'm in for setting up courses in the dark if we have to, especially if it means more than four courses.
One of the best things about BOTW2015 was the fact that there were EIGHT courses. It went super smooth and did I mention that there were EIGHT courses.
Eight.........:twisted:
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BC-Brian
RCC Addict
I am also a fan of more pro courses, it is the primary class for the BC guys coming this year. Shafty, 1.9, Super those are all just for fun cause we are there anyway.
As for the judging, I have gone back and forth in my head half a dozen different directions to think about a great solution to this. As far as I see it here are the key factors.
1. You need consistent judges that know their $hit, can make the right calls, and know what is going on. And they have to have the sack to tell an upset driver, "That's how I saw it, I am sorry you don't agree".
2. Nobody wants to be stapled to one course all day having to judge it. This is what happens with a small amount of dedicated judges, to the course captains (in team format) or to the people who are to generous for their own good.
I am coming a long way for this event, spending my vacation time and money. I want to have fun, drive great courses, and see people I only get to see once a year. That being said, I am more than happy to help, I have captained teams, I have run events and I have built finals courses. Ask me to judge Pro for an hour, build a course, or judge 5 guys while I am waiting in line.... NO PROBLEM, but I don't want to be the guy stuck watching one course all day or wondering where the rest of my team went.
In my mind the thing I keep coming back to is that this is WORLDS. We can compare it to other events and how different formats work but to me it should not be like other events, it should be Epic, World Class, and Special. Particularly if you want people to fork over the cash and travel long distances for it year after year.
Good luck decoding that, sorry for the mini rant "thumbsup"
As for the judging, I have gone back and forth in my head half a dozen different directions to think about a great solution to this. As far as I see it here are the key factors.
1. You need consistent judges that know their $hit, can make the right calls, and know what is going on. And they have to have the sack to tell an upset driver, "That's how I saw it, I am sorry you don't agree".
2. Nobody wants to be stapled to one course all day having to judge it. This is what happens with a small amount of dedicated judges, to the course captains (in team format) or to the people who are to generous for their own good.
I am coming a long way for this event, spending my vacation time and money. I want to have fun, drive great courses, and see people I only get to see once a year. That being said, I am more than happy to help, I have captained teams, I have run events and I have built finals courses. Ask me to judge Pro for an hour, build a course, or judge 5 guys while I am waiting in line.... NO PROBLEM, but I don't want to be the guy stuck watching one course all day or wondering where the rest of my team went.
In my mind the thing I keep coming back to is that this is WORLDS. We can compare it to other events and how different formats work but to me it should not be like other events, it should be Epic, World Class, and Special. Particularly if you want people to fork over the cash and travel long distances for it year after year.
Good luck decoding that, sorry for the mini rant "thumbsup"
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Maybe a combo of team and shift judging can accomplish this. If a team of 5 to 8 guys only has to man a course for the am or pm. I think the work load will be managable. And if it so happens that 2 of those 5 to 8 man the course half the day. Its still only half the day.....
Got a couple ides while sitting at my desk.... jude incentives:
1. Free/refunded class entry. (This will be reserved for those if its decided we will have 1 to 3 decicated judges per course.)
2. Extra tickets for giveaway.
3. Judges only drawing (i won the embroidered bag from Az its sick)
4. Voting for most valuable judge. (Comitte vote... how committe is selected is up for discussion)
5. Voting for most valuable judge (competion field.... each driver will have to write down course number, judge, and a 1to10 rating based on how good the judge did. Ie was judge lazy vs on the spot good with time, attitude, consistancy from driver to driver when judging.... so on so forth best score for the class gets a cool prize or judging trophy [some of us have got to be good at something])
These are just the ones i had in the last 10min so i cam probably come up with more.
1. Free/refunded class entry. (This will be reserved for those if its decided we will have 1 to 3 decicated judges per course.)
2. Extra tickets for giveaway.
3. Judges only drawing (i won the embroidered bag from Az its sick)
4. Voting for most valuable judge. (Comitte vote... how committe is selected is up for discussion)
5. Voting for most valuable judge (competion field.... each driver will have to write down course number, judge, and a 1to10 rating based on how good the judge did. Ie was judge lazy vs on the spot good with time, attitude, consistancy from driver to driver when judging.... so on so forth best score for the class gets a cool prize or judging trophy [some of us have got to be good at something])
These are just the ones i had in the last 10min so i cam probably come up with more.
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Solitaire
RCC Addict
BC-Brian's comments were bang on.
We're just over a month away from the main event and we're still discussing number of courses and how they are going to be judged.
I watched every available video of last year's World's in RI and read most of the comments after the fact and nobody seemed to complain. How were the World's judged last year? Did it work? If so, why change?
Also, last year, I believe there were 6 Pro preliminary courses and one final. Did it work? If so, why change?
We're just over a month away from the main event and we're still discussing number of courses and how they are going to be judged.
I watched every available video of last year's World's in RI and read most of the comments after the fact and nobody seemed to complain. How were the World's judged last year? Did it work? If so, why change?
Also, last year, I believe there were 6 Pro preliminary courses and one final. Did it work? If so, why change?
Nothing wrong with some fresh ideas from seasoned drivers and new guys. As we all know innovation moves this sport forward. I personally like hearing other possible ideas on how to make an event run. In the end it is up to the decision of JRH how to move forward. No matter what he ends up deciding on, someone will always have an issue with it. There is no way to please everyone. Worlds/Nationals in my mind has always been about stunning locations, great people and sick and fun courses. It is up to all of the people involved in it to make it a success.
Solitaire
RCC Addict
Yes, I understand there's nothing wrong with some fresh ideas, but sometimes the tried and true way is the best way.
So far the two main stumbling blocks have been the judging format and the number of courses. I wasn't at World's last year so I have no clue as to how the judging went. Was it satisfactory? Or was it so poor we need to change things this year?
I definitely agree with those who have posted above with concerns about having only 4 Pro courses. 2.2 Pro is still the premiere class and it should have more than 4 courses to create an overall winner.
Now JRH will likely have me by the short and curlies on this, but has he jammed up the event with so many classes that there is not enough time to accommodate more courses for Pro?
So far the two main stumbling blocks have been the judging format and the number of courses. I wasn't at World's last year so I have no clue as to how the judging went. Was it satisfactory? Or was it so poor we need to change things this year?
I definitely agree with those who have posted above with concerns about having only 4 Pro courses. 2.2 Pro is still the premiere class and it should have more than 4 courses to create an overall winner.
Now JRH will likely have me by the short and curlies on this, but has he jammed up the event with so many classes that there is not enough time to accommodate more courses for Pro?
Crawllife
Fifth dimension
Worlds ran perfectly last year. This isn't the same event. It's clear that the scale aspect ( as much as I don't care for scale) is growing or it's an opportunity to show the scale guys how bad ass the pro side is and hope they build and join us. This years menu can't be compared to last years or the north east qualifier. It's just totally different. With that being said, Erik and Kev said it best. If we want more courses, we get up and bust our asses to set, run and judge more. I find it hard to believe JH would say no to the idea if we make it happen.
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