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NC60 axles by BowHouse RC
- Thread starter new2rocks
- Start date
I'm not exactly harsh on my rigs so maybe durability will not be something I can chime in on. :lmao:
In fact only parts I can think of that I've broken in the 6+ years have been twisted driveshafts, broken plastic knuckles/chubs (replaced with metal), and a broken CVD. Even my kid's rig which he got when he was 8 years old has seen its abuse and only thing that broke have been rod ends and plastic chubs/knuckles. Granted my stock axial axles all have beef tubes.
EDIT: Just checked tracking after typing this and they arrived TODAY! So hopefully get some work in on them later. =)
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damn. lol. mine will be shipped this weekend or next week. some things still in production. I can supply the durability test. ill just let my GF drive it :lmao:
ill be fitting insision spools. hd ud and od gears.
its gonna be one tough truck.
lets just say my prototype 2.2m waterworks chassis can hold 50lbs before it gets crushed a little. "thumbsup"
=) yeah I will be putting in the following
Front:
NC60 Axle housing
NC60 Panhard (high pinion mount)
NC60 Diff cover w/ built in bearing caps
Gripfab locker with OD
Axial short side wraith universals from DLUX
Axial Wraith Chubs/Knuckles
Lockedup Scale hardware
Rear:
NC60 Axle housing
NC60 Diff cover w/ built in bearing caps
Gripfab locker with UD
Either axial or lockedup rear shafts (I forget)
Axial plastic lockouts
New bearings.
Front:
NC60 Axle housing
NC60 Panhard (high pinion mount)
NC60 Diff cover w/ built in bearing caps
Gripfab locker with OD
Axial short side wraith universals from DLUX
Axial Wraith Chubs/Knuckles
Lockedup Scale hardware
Rear:
NC60 Axle housing
NC60 Diff cover w/ built in bearing caps
Gripfab locker with UD
Either axial or lockedup rear shafts (I forget)
Axial plastic lockouts
New bearings.
Fishmaxx
I wanna be Dave
I lean more towards performance over scale looks. These axles look very cool but seem a little bulky from a performance aspect. Looking forward to be proven wrong"thumbsup"
So I came home to this yesterday. (2) Shapeways boxes. Great packaging for the 3d parts. I will say it was a bit excessive for the (1) panhard mount that I ordered...they put it in that "small" box. :lmao:
So I gathered my tools and parts and began assembling the front axle. The axles felt great, nice and solid. They have this texture on them which is cool, but doesn't match any of the textures of the parts I have so my OCD needed to be put in check. Installed the over sized bearings for the pinion, short side wraith axles I bought from DLUX, OD gears on grip fab locker, plastic axial chubs/knuckles and scale hardware. Parts fit great, no slop at the splines. Also all the bearings were a slight press fit which was very nice and positive feeling. The pinion bearing inside the axle was the most difficult to install since you couldn't get good leverage on it to press it in easily.
Here is the stock bearing against the larger bearing. Sizeable difference and should hold up to some serious abuse.
Scale hardware, link mounts and panhard installed. Which left me with a complete axle. Super straight forward and bolted up perfectly.
Built the rear axles. Nothing fancy internally. Stock axial axle shafts, plastic lockouts, locker, gears. Tried UD gears and fancy lockers but will elaborate later.
Completed! Also here's a terrible picture against a stock SCX10 rear. Pumpkins are the roughly the same size. I couldn't find my calipers off hand and will measure later. Will also take pictures against an AR60 because they are literally the exact dimensions of an AR60 pumpkin.
Now for the critical part(s).
The front axle bolted up together perfectly. In fact the NC60 cover fits so well I had to use my exacto just to get between the housing and the cover in order to remove it. The splines were snug and no wobble there. The only thing that I can note about the front axle is the pan hard mount. The part feels solid and seems like it will handle some abuse. There is a little (and I mean very little) wiggle room though in the side to side. Basically I'm thinking whatever room there is between the part and the hardware holding it is allowing the movement. My concern is, this movement is in line with the pan hard bar so maybe over time it will get worse since that's the same direction the force of the pan hard is applied. Only thing I can think of to fix this is make hole tolerances tighter, or capture the link mount with a more pronounced raised lip on the axle tube to constrain the link mount even better. Like I said these are minor and the axle went together smoothly and is ready for install into a rig.
The rear wasn't nearly as straight forward as the front. Well it could've been....if I wasn't trying to use UD gears.
The rear axle shafts have that large flange at the tang end and just to show how precise these printers are (if press fitting bearings wasn't good enough), when I installed them I had to press fit to get the axle shafts in...but when I needed to remove them, they wouldn't fit back in the tube without some serious leverage/pressure applied. I was finally able to remove them and I filed down some of the flange to get them to fit through the axle tube much easier. This leads me to believe that beef tubes will be a super snug fit which is great. But to those assembling these axles, it would prove helpful/necessary to remove a little off that large inner flange of the rear axle shafts.
I could not for the life of me get my Axial underdrive/UD gears to install and run smoothly. I have (2) different sets of them and tried (3) different lockers with 0, 1 or 2 shims. If my math is correct I tried (18 ) combinations to get the UD's to work in the rear. UD's have only given me a problem once in my ar60 style housings. They were fairly gritty and despite loosening bearing caps they were still gritty but at least I was able to turn them.
Like I said I tried my (3) lockers, Falsenfest set screw style, Axial stock lockers and my grip fab lockers (which are whats in the front with the OD) all with 0, 1 or 2 shims. The (2) shim combination worked the "best" and had the least grit, when the cover/bearing caps were off. However, when I installed the cover...it was unusable. You felt EVERY tooth engage and could not turn it without some serious effort. Would hate to imagine what the motor would go thru trying to turn this.
I then dropped in a stock locker with 1 shim and stock nonHD gears and its flawless. So that's what is currently inside. I will attempt again to get the UD gears to work but I was running out of patience/time for the evening. I'm going to try stock axial bearing caps/cover instead of the NC60...just to see if that'll change anything. I also have lockedup RC FI lockers and HR lockers so I will try those as well to see if I can get darn UD gear to work. Otherwise, this will be my first rig without OD and UD in it.
Here is something as a Mechanical Engineer I would like to see fixed on next iterations. The 4-link mount has what seems to me very sharp/90* angles to the housing which to me seem like a potential weak point. I'd like to see these hard angles filleted to displace some of that stress.
Also, for a minute I couldn't figure out what the purpose of the (4) thru holes around the pumpkin were and all I can assume since I didn't go this route, is that they are for the servo mount...which makes me wonder why include the bottom (2) holes that aren't used, maybe for the sake of symmetry?
As they mentioned they added new mounting provisions for the lock outs that were more outboard on the housing in case of different revisions of rear axles. The only thing is, even for me they were not spaced out enough, like off a mm or two (need to find calipers). So luckily I had plastic lockouts so I enlarged the hardware holes and they went on "fine".....but left this gap between the lockout and the housing and did I mention OCD earlier? The gap doesn't exist on the front. My suggestion(s) here are to outboard those newer mounting holes further so I am not installing hardware at an angle which may cause premature failure of the threads and/or make your own lockouts that will capture the correct hardware locations, fill that gap and match the material texture. Maybe knuckles and chubs to get a complete axle in the same texture too.
Overall a pleasurable experience building these. No need to pretap any hardware, just make sure to only tighten them just until they are flush. If you keep tightening you risk stripping/pulling out the threads. I may opt to install beef tubes, but not sure how that will work for the rear axle since I can using the non-wraith hardware locations. You can't simply clock the beef tube either because of the link mount hardware. Maybe beef tubes and bowhouserc can collaborate to come up with a set specifically for these housings with tapped m3 locations for both lockout positions.
So I gathered my tools and parts and began assembling the front axle. The axles felt great, nice and solid. They have this texture on them which is cool, but doesn't match any of the textures of the parts I have so my OCD needed to be put in check. Installed the over sized bearings for the pinion, short side wraith axles I bought from DLUX, OD gears on grip fab locker, plastic axial chubs/knuckles and scale hardware. Parts fit great, no slop at the splines. Also all the bearings were a slight press fit which was very nice and positive feeling. The pinion bearing inside the axle was the most difficult to install since you couldn't get good leverage on it to press it in easily.
Here is the stock bearing against the larger bearing. Sizeable difference and should hold up to some serious abuse.
Scale hardware, link mounts and panhard installed. Which left me with a complete axle. Super straight forward and bolted up perfectly.
Built the rear axles. Nothing fancy internally. Stock axial axle shafts, plastic lockouts, locker, gears. Tried UD gears and fancy lockers but will elaborate later.
Completed! Also here's a terrible picture against a stock SCX10 rear. Pumpkins are the roughly the same size. I couldn't find my calipers off hand and will measure later. Will also take pictures against an AR60 because they are literally the exact dimensions of an AR60 pumpkin.
Now for the critical part(s).
The front axle bolted up together perfectly. In fact the NC60 cover fits so well I had to use my exacto just to get between the housing and the cover in order to remove it. The splines were snug and no wobble there. The only thing that I can note about the front axle is the pan hard mount. The part feels solid and seems like it will handle some abuse. There is a little (and I mean very little) wiggle room though in the side to side. Basically I'm thinking whatever room there is between the part and the hardware holding it is allowing the movement. My concern is, this movement is in line with the pan hard bar so maybe over time it will get worse since that's the same direction the force of the pan hard is applied. Only thing I can think of to fix this is make hole tolerances tighter, or capture the link mount with a more pronounced raised lip on the axle tube to constrain the link mount even better. Like I said these are minor and the axle went together smoothly and is ready for install into a rig.
The rear wasn't nearly as straight forward as the front. Well it could've been....if I wasn't trying to use UD gears.
The rear axle shafts have that large flange at the tang end and just to show how precise these printers are (if press fitting bearings wasn't good enough), when I installed them I had to press fit to get the axle shafts in...but when I needed to remove them, they wouldn't fit back in the tube without some serious leverage/pressure applied. I was finally able to remove them and I filed down some of the flange to get them to fit through the axle tube much easier. This leads me to believe that beef tubes will be a super snug fit which is great. But to those assembling these axles, it would prove helpful/necessary to remove a little off that large inner flange of the rear axle shafts.
I could not for the life of me get my Axial underdrive/UD gears to install and run smoothly. I have (2) different sets of them and tried (3) different lockers with 0, 1 or 2 shims. If my math is correct I tried (18 ) combinations to get the UD's to work in the rear. UD's have only given me a problem once in my ar60 style housings. They were fairly gritty and despite loosening bearing caps they were still gritty but at least I was able to turn them.
Like I said I tried my (3) lockers, Falsenfest set screw style, Axial stock lockers and my grip fab lockers (which are whats in the front with the OD) all with 0, 1 or 2 shims. The (2) shim combination worked the "best" and had the least grit, when the cover/bearing caps were off. However, when I installed the cover...it was unusable. You felt EVERY tooth engage and could not turn it without some serious effort. Would hate to imagine what the motor would go thru trying to turn this.
I then dropped in a stock locker with 1 shim and stock nonHD gears and its flawless. So that's what is currently inside. I will attempt again to get the UD gears to work but I was running out of patience/time for the evening. I'm going to try stock axial bearing caps/cover instead of the NC60...just to see if that'll change anything. I also have lockedup RC FI lockers and HR lockers so I will try those as well to see if I can get darn UD gear to work. Otherwise, this will be my first rig without OD and UD in it.
Here is something as a Mechanical Engineer I would like to see fixed on next iterations. The 4-link mount has what seems to me very sharp/90* angles to the housing which to me seem like a potential weak point. I'd like to see these hard angles filleted to displace some of that stress.
Also, for a minute I couldn't figure out what the purpose of the (4) thru holes around the pumpkin were and all I can assume since I didn't go this route, is that they are for the servo mount...which makes me wonder why include the bottom (2) holes that aren't used, maybe for the sake of symmetry?
As they mentioned they added new mounting provisions for the lock outs that were more outboard on the housing in case of different revisions of rear axles. The only thing is, even for me they were not spaced out enough, like off a mm or two (need to find calipers). So luckily I had plastic lockouts so I enlarged the hardware holes and they went on "fine".....but left this gap between the lockout and the housing and did I mention OCD earlier? The gap doesn't exist on the front. My suggestion(s) here are to outboard those newer mounting holes further so I am not installing hardware at an angle which may cause premature failure of the threads and/or make your own lockouts that will capture the correct hardware locations, fill that gap and match the material texture. Maybe knuckles and chubs to get a complete axle in the same texture too.
Overall a pleasurable experience building these. No need to pretap any hardware, just make sure to only tighten them just until they are flush. If you keep tightening you risk stripping/pulling out the threads. I may opt to install beef tubes, but not sure how that will work for the rear axle since I can using the non-wraith hardware locations. You can't simply clock the beef tube either because of the link mount hardware. Maybe beef tubes and bowhouserc can collaborate to come up with a set specifically for these housings with tapped m3 locations for both lockout positions.
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not sure on promo's...
but nice detailed writeup.
I will try to confirm that ud gears are gritty in mine when I get my set.
but.... this plastic does flex. and is somewhat "squeezable" but its fairly hard to break.
im willing to believe that if I polish my gearset (ud only) it should be smooth.
and as this plastic is a bit porus. very minimal. I would use marine grease. or a dry lubricant.
but nice detailed writeup.
I will try to confirm that ud gears are gritty in mine when I get my set.
but.... this plastic does flex. and is somewhat "squeezable" but its fairly hard to break.
im willing to believe that if I polish my gearset (ud only) it should be smooth.
and as this plastic is a bit porus. very minimal. I would use marine grease. or a dry lubricant.
new2rocks
I wanna be Dave
Thanks for the great write-up and feedback, Shinjari. I'm not going to quote the entire passage, but let me speak to this:
The big factor that drove placement of the lockout mounting holes was providing the option to get the rear axle to the same width as the front, which is slightly narrower than the stock SCX-10 width due to the dimensions and geometry of the short-side Wraith universals. Depending on which locker and particular set of axle shafts (Axial has 2 styles with the same part number), the narrower set located at 12:00 and 6:00 may require a bit of grinding. I had no problem mounting UD gears with Hot Racing lockers and VP lockouts in my rear axle using the alternative holes located at 3:00 and 6:00, but fitment with other lockers may be different. Based on what you've shared, we'll look into whether we should widen the alternative holes. But we'll probably leave the 12:00 and 6:00 holes for folks that are willing to grind if needed to get the same width as the front.
NC60 specific lockouts are a possibility. Knuckles and chubs would depend on whether we could get a design that was strong enough when printed using SLS to withstand the kind of abuse that these are intended to take. Worth looking into, though...
Glad you have enjoyed them thus far, yes to not overtightening, and stay tuned on Beef Tubes. Dan and I have been in touch and may have have something before too long.
Please keep the feedback coming, and thanks for all of the support and encouragement! "thumbsup"
The big factor that drove placement of the lockout mounting holes was providing the option to get the rear axle to the same width as the front, which is slightly narrower than the stock SCX-10 width due to the dimensions and geometry of the short-side Wraith universals. Depending on which locker and particular set of axle shafts (Axial has 2 styles with the same part number), the narrower set located at 12:00 and 6:00 may require a bit of grinding. I had no problem mounting UD gears with Hot Racing lockers and VP lockouts in my rear axle using the alternative holes located at 3:00 and 6:00, but fitment with other lockers may be different. Based on what you've shared, we'll look into whether we should widen the alternative holes. But we'll probably leave the 12:00 and 6:00 holes for folks that are willing to grind if needed to get the same width as the front.
NC60 specific lockouts are a possibility. Knuckles and chubs would depend on whether we could get a design that was strong enough when printed using SLS to withstand the kind of abuse that these are intended to take. Worth looking into, though...
Glad you have enjoyed them thus far, yes to not overtightening, and stay tuned on Beef Tubes. Dan and I have been in touch and may have have something before too long.
Please keep the feedback coming, and thanks for all of the support and encouragement! "thumbsup"
Not sure what you would polish, care to elaborate? I will continue attempting to get UD's to work.
So I am using the 3 and 9 o'clock holes. I installed the stock locker with stock gears with the stock axle shafts. I will try and get some pics later today or tomorrow. But if I let the stock plastic lockout just sit on the bearing, the 3 & 9 holes do not line up 100%, more like 75% with the locker holes. I had to put a little pressure to get it to allow hardware to line up in addition to enlarging the lockout thru hole.
If I try to line up 12 & 6, its even worse as they are more inboard than the 3 & 6 holes and I maybe see half the hole thru the lockout.
Not necessarily sure I follow what needs to be grinded down to get it to sit more inside the locker? The tangs/flat spots need to be extended AND remove the large flange that acts as a hard stop against the gear set? I do have a set where I removed the large flange in another rig, maybe I'll give those a shot and see what happens.
As for knuckles and chubs, not as big a deal as lockout to me in this scenario. Or maybe consider making front/rear axles with the rears having more of a bearing cap only to get rid of bulky lockouts.
I'll keep up the updates and let you know what I come up with. "thumbsup"
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I would polish the teeth of the ring and pinion.
and im still under the impression that these axles do not need beef tubes for structural purposes. unless you wanna drop your truck off a 5ft cliff all the time...
and to elaborate on the knuckles...
I wouldn't waste time on knuckles. chubs and lockouts... I could see that being a plus. if you guys want to make knuckles.. id make em in stainless, alum, or brass.
id take raw steel ones
and im still under the impression that these axles do not need beef tubes for structural purposes. unless you wanna drop your truck off a 5ft cliff all the time...
and to elaborate on the knuckles...
I wouldn't waste time on knuckles. chubs and lockouts... I could see that being a plus. if you guys want to make knuckles.. id make em in stainless, alum, or brass.
id take raw steel ones
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new2rocks
I wanna be Dave
We'll probably end up moving the 3 & 9 holes out slightly. The 12 and 6 holes will stay where they are for proper front axle knuckle placement and also for those who are okay modding the SCX10 rear axle shafts for the narrower setting.
Exactly what you said (remove the flange, extend the tangs/flat spots) to grind the rear axles to use the 12 and 6 holes. "thumbsup"
We decided to keep the front and rear axle housings identical for now for several reasons (easy of production and ordering, ability to use stock and commonly available after market lockouts, and ability to use same beef tubes front and rear). But we would be open to a specific rear housing if there's enough interest.
Yes and no :ror:
if you guys want to make knuckles.. id make em in stainless, alum, or brass.
id take raw steel ones
Lol. We're not quite ready to take on metal parts at the moment. Maybe down the road... "thumbsup"
Ok, so I had time to tinker and here are my findings. I apologize for the large pics, but it doesnt seem like my thumbnailed pics (like my review post) are enlarging to show detail. If the thumbnails are working please let me know. Otherwise...hers some big @$$ pics. :lmao:
First, here are some pics against other axles. I had a set of VP scx10 aluminum housings (which were on the rig I'm installing the NC60's) and a stock set.
Also here is a side view pumpkin comparison against an AR60. Exactly the same.
Now as I mentioned I was determined to get the UD gears to work. After tinkering, I noticed that when I installed my thru-pin style pinion...the gritty feeling was the worst. In fact even the axle shafts would not be straight. Then I installed my non-thru pin style pinion and everything lined up and PRAISE THE SUN the gritty feeling was gone. Built the axle, and everything worked perfectly. So what I determined was that pinion was bent or in poor shape and was causing the binding/gritty feeling. Makes sense, as the housings are perfect. I ended up finding another thru-pin style pinion and it dropped in easily. Rest assured the binding was NOT the housings fault but the pinion. "thumbsup"
Continuing with the rear axle, the rear lockout situation is ever so minute in the tolerance. I borrowed a set of VP lockouts just to see if they fit differently than my stock plastics. Nope, holes still misaligned. Funny thing is, it's really only one side that the "bad" one. If you are looking at the pumpkin, it is the right side that is off by a hair. It is the lockout I had to enlarge the holes to get to fit. The VP did line up either. However on the left side, both lockouts lined up considerably better and did not need altering. Maybe moving the left ever so slightly will make hardware go in with less effort/risk of stripping. The right side needs a larger adjustment.
Here in the picture below you see the white of the SLS material which is where the hardware was bottoming out before I altered my lockout. Also you see the left side which is fine, the hardware engaged/lined up and went in with minimal effort.
Now to install these bad boys on a scx10 chassis. Here is where things come up. I will say that these to me, are not a direct 100% drop in replacement for stock scx10 axle housings and not sure they were meant to be, but I went in under the impression they would be more or less.
So I was installing the front axle and when I went to install the shocks and links I ran into these things. I am using the NC60 pan hard mount and stock plastic axial ar60 link mounts for the other mount locations. Each are installed with the M3 bolt and nylon lock nut as they have been on AR60s.
I installed the driver side shock and lower link on the stock axial mount just fine. The passenger side with the NC60 mount the lower link would not bolt right up. The reason is because the NC60 mount base has more material (more strength?), which pushed the nylon nut further out away from the axle and taking up clearance room, which interferes with the link rod end.
You can see in pics below what I am talking about. The axial mount is first and bolts right up, the NC60 there was not enough clearance for the rod end and a nylon lock nut to allow proper alignment of the hardware. I ended up using a non locking nut here and put thread locker. Problem solved.
I am using traxxas rod ends so not sure if axial rod ends are thinner and allow the nylon nut to clear.
Now besides the UD issue I had and the lockouts, the rear bolted up without the lower link issue since I was using stock axial ar60 mounts on that axle.
This was the next thing I came across. The shock mount locations are more inboard than the scx10. So if you are mounting these axles to a scx10 chassis and are trying to use the stock shock upper location and the lower double shear capture of the shock mounts it causes the shocks to pinch.
I measured the shock location and it is approximately 3 3/8" center to center on the NC60. But on a stock axial axle the center to center is more like 3 7/8"
Here is the front pinched
Here is the rear pinched
The rear cycled ok, but the front did not cooperate and the springs would grab the chassis on the up cycle. In the end, I mounted the shocks on the outside of the mount and this fixed the issue. I will point out that I am currently installing this on a rig with 1.55 growlers which are 4.20" tall on rc4wd voids with wide hexes. Very short. When the steering is locked, the tire nearly touches the shock now that is is outboard. This will be a bit worse for those running larger 4.5"+ tires unless you run wide hubs. I will try some other wheels with TSL XLs or similar.
Now if you recall I have a set of VP scx10 housings, which have the VP scx10 lower mounts. I tried to install these to see if I could get the shocks to fit better but due to the chub/lockout on the NC60 being as far outboard without interfering with the AR60 style mount you cannot.
Another thing to note is that if you install the shocks on the top hole of the mount it will raise your rig ever so slightly. It is difficult to install on the bottom outside of the mount to lower it below the center line of the axle because the lower shock bucket interferes. Maybe HELIOS/Bowhouse can make a mount that is ONLY the lower mount location, but still captures both axle hardware. Basically remove the top mount. "thumbsup". In fact, I may just cut the upper mounts off myself to see how that helps.
This is a non-biased review with positive criticism and I am simply pointing out my findings and how I feel they could be better. I look forward to running them soon.
First, here are some pics against other axles. I had a set of VP scx10 aluminum housings (which were on the rig I'm installing the NC60's) and a stock set.
Also here is a side view pumpkin comparison against an AR60. Exactly the same.
Now as I mentioned I was determined to get the UD gears to work. After tinkering, I noticed that when I installed my thru-pin style pinion...the gritty feeling was the worst. In fact even the axle shafts would not be straight. Then I installed my non-thru pin style pinion and everything lined up and PRAISE THE SUN the gritty feeling was gone. Built the axle, and everything worked perfectly. So what I determined was that pinion was bent or in poor shape and was causing the binding/gritty feeling. Makes sense, as the housings are perfect. I ended up finding another thru-pin style pinion and it dropped in easily. Rest assured the binding was NOT the housings fault but the pinion. "thumbsup"
Continuing with the rear axle, the rear lockout situation is ever so minute in the tolerance. I borrowed a set of VP lockouts just to see if they fit differently than my stock plastics. Nope, holes still misaligned. Funny thing is, it's really only one side that the "bad" one. If you are looking at the pumpkin, it is the right side that is off by a hair. It is the lockout I had to enlarge the holes to get to fit. The VP did line up either. However on the left side, both lockouts lined up considerably better and did not need altering. Maybe moving the left ever so slightly will make hardware go in with less effort/risk of stripping. The right side needs a larger adjustment.
Here in the picture below you see the white of the SLS material which is where the hardware was bottoming out before I altered my lockout. Also you see the left side which is fine, the hardware engaged/lined up and went in with minimal effort.
Now to install these bad boys on a scx10 chassis. Here is where things come up. I will say that these to me, are not a direct 100% drop in replacement for stock scx10 axle housings and not sure they were meant to be, but I went in under the impression they would be more or less.
So I was installing the front axle and when I went to install the shocks and links I ran into these things. I am using the NC60 pan hard mount and stock plastic axial ar60 link mounts for the other mount locations. Each are installed with the M3 bolt and nylon lock nut as they have been on AR60s.
I installed the driver side shock and lower link on the stock axial mount just fine. The passenger side with the NC60 mount the lower link would not bolt right up. The reason is because the NC60 mount base has more material (more strength?), which pushed the nylon nut further out away from the axle and taking up clearance room, which interferes with the link rod end.
You can see in pics below what I am talking about. The axial mount is first and bolts right up, the NC60 there was not enough clearance for the rod end and a nylon lock nut to allow proper alignment of the hardware. I ended up using a non locking nut here and put thread locker. Problem solved.
I am using traxxas rod ends so not sure if axial rod ends are thinner and allow the nylon nut to clear.
Now besides the UD issue I had and the lockouts, the rear bolted up without the lower link issue since I was using stock axial ar60 mounts on that axle.
This was the next thing I came across. The shock mount locations are more inboard than the scx10. So if you are mounting these axles to a scx10 chassis and are trying to use the stock shock upper location and the lower double shear capture of the shock mounts it causes the shocks to pinch.
I measured the shock location and it is approximately 3 3/8" center to center on the NC60. But on a stock axial axle the center to center is more like 3 7/8"
Here is the front pinched
Here is the rear pinched
The rear cycled ok, but the front did not cooperate and the springs would grab the chassis on the up cycle. In the end, I mounted the shocks on the outside of the mount and this fixed the issue. I will point out that I am currently installing this on a rig with 1.55 growlers which are 4.20" tall on rc4wd voids with wide hexes. Very short. When the steering is locked, the tire nearly touches the shock now that is is outboard. This will be a bit worse for those running larger 4.5"+ tires unless you run wide hubs. I will try some other wheels with TSL XLs or similar.
Now if you recall I have a set of VP scx10 housings, which have the VP scx10 lower mounts. I tried to install these to see if I could get the shocks to fit better but due to the chub/lockout on the NC60 being as far outboard without interfering with the AR60 style mount you cannot.
Another thing to note is that if you install the shocks on the top hole of the mount it will raise your rig ever so slightly. It is difficult to install on the bottom outside of the mount to lower it below the center line of the axle because the lower shock bucket interferes. Maybe HELIOS/Bowhouse can make a mount that is ONLY the lower mount location, but still captures both axle hardware. Basically remove the top mount. "thumbsup". In fact, I may just cut the upper mounts off myself to see how that helps.
This is a non-biased review with positive criticism and I am simply pointing out my findings and how I feel they could be better. I look forward to running them soon.
new2rocks
I wanna be Dave
Thanks for posting the comparison pix and glad to hear you found the source of the grittiness.
Thin nylon nuts (Axial AXA1052 or similar) should work fine. I added that to the tips post at the beginning of the thread.
Yup - that's why we recommend installing in the outboard location. "thumbsup"
Yes...hence the recommendation to use a spacer if you mount at the lower location. Icons clear fine with a spacer added (away from my rig at the moment but recall using something like 4mm or 5mm). As far as an NC60-specific mount is concerned, we decided to keep the mounts the same as the AR60s for now for parts interchangeability and multiple shock mount options. If there's enough interest in an NC60-specific mount, it wouldn't be hard to make.
Okay, Shinjari...time to get them out on the rocks!
Thin nylon nuts (Axial AXA1052 or similar) should work fine. I added that to the tips post at the beginning of the thread.
Yup - that's why we recommend installing in the outboard location. "thumbsup"
Yes...hence the recommendation to use a spacer if you mount at the lower location. Icons clear fine with a spacer added (away from my rig at the moment but recall using something like 4mm or 5mm). As far as an NC60-specific mount is concerned, we decided to keep the mounts the same as the AR60s for now for parts interchangeability and multiple shock mount options. If there's enough interest in an NC60-specific mount, it wouldn't be hard to make.
Okay, Shinjari...time to get them out on the rocks!
Well, it seems all my findings were not "new" and already accounted for with fixes. =) I do recall the thin nylon nuts being mentioned, but not the outboard shock thing.
I will try to make it out sometime soon and give them a thorough shakedown.
I will try to make it out sometime soon and give them a thorough shakedown.
new2rocks
I wanna be Dave
We've just updated the model to add 1mm of additional spacing on the 3:00 and 9:00 holes for more clearance with stock, unmodified rear shafts. "thumbsup"
So, let's talk about hole spacing (in a good way, you dirty minded hooligans).
3 and 9 o'clock - You'll use these with totally stock rear SCX10 shafts. The reason is the tang doesn't engage the locker as far as the Wraith style shafts. If you're lazy and don't want to change anything use these holes.
6 and 12 o'clock - if you grind the little flange off and then grind the tang back just a smidge (1.5mm) then it will slide all the way in and you're able to use these holes. If you're anal about the front and rear being perfectly the same width, you'll want to do this. It's not hard and if you're that into details then it's something you can do.
Another note: it looks to me like there was a product change somewhere along the line and Axial didn't change the part numbers. I've found a few combinations of stock lockers and stock rear SCX10 shafts that slide in all the way and use 6/12 without any problems. I think this is the locker out of some Wraith kits that does this. I wouldn't plan on this being the case though. You'll want to check your fitment before committing to a set of holes. I grind my flanges because I wanted to see how it all fit. David will do a completely stock build.
3 and 9 o'clock - You'll use these with totally stock rear SCX10 shafts. The reason is the tang doesn't engage the locker as far as the Wraith style shafts. If you're lazy and don't want to change anything use these holes.
6 and 12 o'clock - if you grind the little flange off and then grind the tang back just a smidge (1.5mm) then it will slide all the way in and you're able to use these holes. If you're anal about the front and rear being perfectly the same width, you'll want to do this. It's not hard and if you're that into details then it's something you can do.
Another note: it looks to me like there was a product change somewhere along the line and Axial didn't change the part numbers. I've found a few combinations of stock lockers and stock rear SCX10 shafts that slide in all the way and use 6/12 without any problems. I think this is the locker out of some Wraith kits that does this. I wouldn't plan on this being the case though. You'll want to check your fitment before committing to a set of holes. I grind my flanges because I wanted to see how it all fit. David will do a completely stock build.
A little note about the link mounts. The combination of larger diameter shocks and the position of the link mounts gives a little rubbing of the springs on the chassis. We're going to release some new link mounts with the shock mount out-boarded a bit more. The thing is that they can't be too much, because the front tires will rub. I'll prototype a few and will use some testers to help see how they work.
Ok, last one for the morning.
I want to thank everyone for the incredible support for our projects. I have to hand it to the guys from Axial, it's not easy to do product development. Many people underestimate the time because you're used to taking something that's already done and modifying it. There are so many aspects in the product design from tolerance considerations on your own parts to the tolerances and variation of purchased parts. Then you have to take into consideration different people assembling them and their techniques.
Our product development process targets the best possible release the first time out. Our process supports feedback from the community and I feel that's our greatest strength. Our flexibility and design style allows fast turnaround. I'm proud of the work we do and it wouldn't be possible without the support of the community.
Happy 4th!!!!!
I want to thank everyone for the incredible support for our projects. I have to hand it to the guys from Axial, it's not easy to do product development. Many people underestimate the time because you're used to taking something that's already done and modifying it. There are so many aspects in the product design from tolerance considerations on your own parts to the tolerances and variation of purchased parts. Then you have to take into consideration different people assembling them and their techniques.
Our product development process targets the best possible release the first time out. Our process supports feedback from the community and I feel that's our greatest strength. Our flexibility and design style allows fast turnaround. I'm proud of the work we do and it wouldn't be possible without the support of the community.
Happy 4th!!!!!
I like this. This enable the use of the double shear of the link mount? Or still have to use the spacer to outboard it more?
I totally agree with this. With how tight tolerances need to be and testing required. It take some serious time invested to get a product "right". Thank you for taking the time to release a new product for this great platform.
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CM_113
Rock Stacker
just ordered my parts to replace the "stock" axles under TACO. shapeways told me i would have them on the 15th. which is good i can get some of the other things i'll need. all stock parts and plastic for now. cant wait , cause even with 4ws its a 3 ft turn around.
