Do you believe in God,Heaven or Hell?

[DavidH]

Atheists, if you don’t want to read the Bible don’t, just don’t try to take my freedom of religion away, and we’re all good.


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[DavidH]

Not to pry, but since you keep putting it out there, what's the deal with "beyond their control"? If someone had a gun to thier head and somebody told them to do something, wouldn't they still have a choice? I'm trying to understand.

Belief is not a conscious choice. And to the atheist, the 'gun' is imaginary. Laughable, even.

But since you ask: If I put a gun to your head, and told you to believe that gods were nothing but characters in books, could/would you do it?

And if we are talking "free will", you shouldn't need the gun.

Do it now. You can always choose to believe again tomorrow.

 

[Scrap]

I wonder what the IQ is of believers vs. non believers.

And what about beliebers?

What I don't get is why does religion fight against the Big Bang and evolution?
I mean doesn't genesis start with "Let there be light"? Sounds pretty much like a big bang to me. The rest is a bit off especially in the time scale of things. But you could argue that the it was written by simpletons to simpletons using metaphors and shit.
Even evolution is very appropriate considering the Noah part. Noah could never have fitted two of each animal, that we have now, on board any ship that could sail. But you could fit a few species that then evolved to the multitude we have now. Besides he didn't take any rats or cockroaches but we have those aplenty.

But, alas, you desperately cling to a fairy tail that could not possibly be true in any way or form. And even the most stupid parts of the bible are taken as gospel (pun intended).

Religion should evolve if it wants to survive.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Not all religious people rally against science. You can be incredibly devout and still come to the conclusion that ancient views on the world were ill informed and it's authors fallible on those topics.

Only the most literal interpreters ignore modern understandings.

 

[ThatJeeper2017]

Haha so funny. I’m not saying I’m impressed. I just don’t want people to take my right to believe away.


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[Duuuuuuuude]

Who exactly is trying to take that away?

 

[DavidH]

Do you know why we don't need to read a Bible to get a moral code? Because we have morality/conscience built-in that God put there. It can be ignored... even rendered silent through doing enough evil,

So God [allegedly] gives us a moral code that we can ignore. If only God was more knowledgable, more powerful, and had some sort of foresight to be able to put something better in place.

but then the memory of its existence is still there... eating away at us.

Dunno. I worked with some apparent sociopaths (CEOs of large companies) and they didn't seem to me like they were bothered by their actions, the companies they shut down, the lives they displaced. But then I didn't have that fancy mind-reading hat of yours.

I think you should change your shirt.

Neither the big bang, nor evolution could have put it there.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" -Christopher Hitchens

Oh, and if anyone's an atheist, by all means do read it; that's how C.S. Lewis and many others became Christians.

I'm waiting for someone - anyone - to demonstrate that reading the bible gives one a more accurate description of reality. I do not care who does or doesn't believe.

I expect that such a demonstration will not be forthcoming.

 

[DavidH]

One of my degrees is in science, but I thank you for your concern.

I gather from that that you are not going to make the effort to learn more about biology and cosmology. "thumbsup"

Actually, He is very concerned about the way we live our lives. He wants us to live above reproach, and be patient and loving towards others,

As long as you are of the right colour, gender, and sexual orientation, of course.

which is what I'm trying to do in this thread and others on RCC (albeit sometimes unsuccessfully).

Indeed. Fortunately, atheists can be quite forgiving.

And no, nothing gets swept under the carpet.

It's already happened in this thread.

If Jesus somehow still exists (or even existed), then he is standing idly by, watching children get raped, and doing nothing to prevent it, and saying nothing. This evil that he does gets swept under that rug.

And what of those victims, that lost their faith at the hands of those rapists, their prayers for help unanswered? Under the rug they go. Burn in hell, kids.

Everyone will be judged and punished accordingly. However, the judge came down from His throne and received the punishment already for anyone who puts thier trust in Him.

God sacrifices himself to himself to save us from an arbitrary rule that he put into place. Amiright?

And is not unethical for a judge to preside over is own affairs? That goes under the rug too?

Does that mean a Christian can just lie, murder, rape, and steal without consequences? Of course not. For one thing, anyone who calls themselves a Christian but is involved in habitual or heinous sin needs to consider the distinct possibility that they don't really have the faith-based relationship with thier Creator that they thought they had, and that they will be going to hell for eternity when they die. To trust in God means to lay down our evil desires in exchange for His good works that He wants us to do, like giving other people the opportunity to know Him.

In your theology, can a murderer go to heaven? Yes or no?

 

[DavidH]

I never said it was guaranteed. Clearly your road to salvation/enlightenment is different than Lewis'. However I can promise you this, because Jesus makes this promise: "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.*For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened" (Matthew 7:7-8), but remember, as the prophet Jeremiah said: "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart" (29:13).

Your premise is faulty in that it presumes that one already believes in this 'god' before one can seek it.

I can no more 'knock' on this 'door' than I can write a sincere letter to Santa, even as I would appreciate getting free stuff at Christmas.

Sounds more like an exercise in self-deception than a means of obtaining a more accurate description of reality.

 

[DavidH]

No my mind and memory works fine"thumbsup", just didn't have time to sit down so I just expressed my feelings ;-).

The post will always be back there, for when you find the time to answer my questions. "thumbsup"

 

[Rotare]

Do you know why we don't need to read a Bible to get a moral code? Because we have morality/conscience built-in that God put there. It can be ignored... even rendered silent through doing enough evil, but then the memory of its existence is still there... eating away at us. Neither the big bang, nor evolution could have put it there.

So why don’t psychopaths have a conscience?

If our conscience can be ignored by ‘doing enough evil’...... what’s the point of having a conscience? Can you tell me how much and of what type of evil I would need to do to render my conscience silent? My bet is your response will be pretty easy to counter argue.

I think your logic is somewhat flawed.

 

[Rotare]

Oh, and if anyone's an atheist, by all means do read it; that's how C.S. Lewis and many others became Christians.

I don’t need to read the bible cover to cover to realise the story written in those pages are a load of BS.

Being pragmatic, realistic, skeptical as well as having a reasonable amount of common sense has its advantages sometimes.

Without going into my personal experience, I’ve read and researched enough, as well as seen first hand the ugly side of religion to decide I don’t want any part....

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Since I doubt that you'll get a straight answer for these, allow me to change hats and answer them for him.

If Jesus somehow still exists (or even existed), then he is standing idly by, watching children get raped, and doing nothing to prevent it, and saying nothing. This evil that he does gets swept under that rug.

God works in mysterious ways. Even the bits of life that appear horrendous to us only appear that way because of our ignorance of His plan. It's likely that such a situation happened to strengthen the resolve of the child for a much tougher situation that will happen later in life.

And what of those victims, that lost their faith at the hands of those rapists, their prayers for help unanswered? Under the rug they go. Burn in hell, kids.

The victims drop their faith by their own free will, and can regain it at any time. They simply need to ask God for guidance.

In your theology, can a murderer go to heaven? Yes or no?

Absolutely, as long as they seek salvation.

 

[Teng]

Borrowed from my brother in Christ. His original posts as below. May God bless you all. ;-)

No politics here. But I feel heart bound to bring to your attention the frequency and harshness of both weather and natural disasters since Trump's "election". I am not going to debate politics. It is what it is.
I was raised on the Books of Moses. Weather convulsions like these in the old days would have had people in an outright panic. All they would see were signs of impending wrath and hardship.
Well, at least the wise ones would. The fools, the disobedient, ignored the prophets' interpretations of the natural signs and went about life as usual.
I mean it from the heart when I say "REPENT AMERICA!" Not condescendingly, not judgingly, but as the foundation of Christ's ministry, Repentance is necessary. Repent of everything unholy and take to heart the living out of those 10 Commandments.
I do not know if this is the time for the world to be judged. It could simply be the time for this nation to be judged. God has sent untold numbers of prophets and harbingers to this American nation, telling us to repent repent repent of aggressive war, greed, lust/adultery, murder, ABORTION, pride.
If Germany deserved what they got, what does America deserve? 40,000,000 babies in garbage cans and the stomachs of Satan's servants (yup), over 10,000,000+ civilian casualties through baseless wars. An entire society built on serving mammon. God is mocked openly by almost everyone. Theft is part of a way of life through government (voting to steal from your neighbor so that you can get something). Our world essentially runs on covetousness. I could go on. Yea it does disgust me. If I don't like it, I should get out? Well, God has a job for me to do here, but yea, leaving is on the radar.
You don't think it's so bad here because the bodies are neatly disposed of. Because they are overseas and brown. You don't think it's so bad here because you see it with your flesh eyes. America is Paradise to the flesh, but all the more becoming a Hell for the spiritual. A crucible to refine the final product.
In my gut I have known this would be a time of travail since I was 7 years old. I had visions of flood waters swallowing a great city. It's simple historical pattern. Just look at the signs, the conditions. My only surprise is that it has not come sooner. I ask God why and clearly the word pops into my head that He desires none should perish. That he is answering the prayers of His Church in America. He wants to Save you. Don't reject him. Don't choose sin. Don't choose death, choose life!
He is giving us so much time to repent and so much time for his messengers to warn the people. So many times in history people were warned warned warned and ignored ignored ignored. They said "nothing's gonna happen, life will go on tomorrow just as it did today". And it did. Until one day they woke up or were at work and all of a sudden, in their eyes, seemingly without warning, everything changed.
What seeming glory it is to live through the rise, and the peak of a nation, but make no mistake, dear reader, this is the fall. But God's nation will stand forever. It will number as the stars in the sky.
Personally the choice between a temporary nation on the slide and an eternal nation on the rise is no choice to me.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Thanks for the superstitious explanation. "thumbsup"

 

[DavidH]

Borrowed from my brother in Christ. His original posts as below. May God bless you all. ;-)

No politics here. But I feel heart bound to bring to your attention the frequency and harshness of both weather and natural disasters since Trump's "election". I am not going to debate politics. It is what it is.
I was raised on the Books of Moses. Weather convulsions like these in the old days would have had people in an outright panic. All they would see were signs of impending wrath and hardship.
Well, at least the wise ones would. The fools, the disobedient, ignored the prophets' interpretations of the natural signs and went about life as usual.
I mean it from the heart when I say "REPENT AMERICA!" Not condescendingly, not judgingly, but as the foundation of Christ's ministry, Repentance is necessary. Repent of everything unholy and take to heart the living out of those 10 Commandments.
I do not know if this is the time for the world to be judged. It could simply be the time for this nation to be judged. God has sent untold numbers of prophets and harbingers to this American nation, telling us to repent repent repent of aggressive war, greed, lust/adultery, murder, ABORTION, pride.
If Germany deserved what they got, what does America deserve? 40,000,000 babies in garbage cans and the stomachs of Satan's servants (yup), over 10,000,000+ civilian casualties through baseless wars. An entire society built on serving mammon. God is mocked openly by almost everyone. Theft is part of a way of life through government (voting to steal from your neighbor so that you can get something). Our world essentially runs on covetousness. I could go on. Yea it does disgust me. If I don't like it, I should get out? Well, God has a job for me to do here, but yea, leaving is on the radar.
You don't think it's so bad here because the bodies are neatly disposed of. Because they are overseas and brown. You don't think it's so bad here because you see it with your flesh eyes. America is Paradise to the flesh, but all the more becoming a Hell for the spiritual. A crucible to refine the final product.
In my gut I have known this would be a time of travail since I was 7 years old. I had visions of flood waters swallowing a great city. It's simple historical pattern. Just look at the signs, the conditions. My only surprise is that it has not come sooner. I ask God why and clearly the word pops into my head that He desires none should perish. That he is answering the prayers of His Church in America. He wants to Save you. Don't reject him. Don't choose sin. Don't choose death, choose life!
He is giving us so much time to repent and so much time for his messengers to warn the people. So many times in history people were warned warned warned and ignored ignored ignored. They said "nothing's gonna happen, life will go on tomorrow just as it did today". And it did. Until one day they woke up or were at work and all of a sudden, in their eyes, seemingly without warning, everything changed.
What seeming glory it is to live through the rise, and the peak of a nation, but make no mistake, dear reader, this is the fall. But God's nation will stand forever. It will number as the stars in the sky.
Personally the choice between a temporary nation on the slide and an eternal nation on the rise is no choice to me.

Rather than pick this mess apart, I'll just ask a question: do you have a date for this to all happen, Mr. Camping?

 

[DavidH]

Since I doubt that you'll get a straight answer for these, allow me to change hats and answer them for him.



God works in mysterious ways. Even the bits of life that appear horrendous to us only appear that way because of our ignorance of His plan. It's likely that such a situation happened to strengthen the resolve of the child for a much tougher situation that will happen later in life.



The victims drop their faith by their own free will, and can regain it at any time. They simply need to ask God for guidance.

Once in a rare while a relgionist does step up and take ownership of his theology, warts and all, but it is not often. 8)

Absolutely, as long as they seek salvation.

Indeed. And then it is no longer a system of justice, despite that word being used so often in the sales pitch...

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

A good friend of mine that happens to be a minister asked me why I didn't believe in Hell, and wouldn't I want justice served to the worst of mankind.


I replied that justice could not be found in repentance.


He had nothing else to say.

 

[Rotare]

Rather than pick this mess apart, I'll just ask a question: do you have a date for this to all happen, Mr. Camping?

Pick any decade since the year 66 and religious zealots have been predicting the end of the world as we know it. Just about every religion has felt a compelling need to precisely predict the second coming of Christ or other atrocities that bestow non-believers.

I guess it’s only a minor technicality that not a single prediction to date has come true..... and we’re all still here doing what we’ve always done :lmao:

The Lord works in mysterious ways I suppose, albeit not very accurately....

 

[Teng]

Rather than pick this mess apart, I'll just ask a question: do you have a date for this to all happen, Mr. Camping?

Yes， I remember him, he is one of the false teacher. :ror: