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Do you believe in God,Heaven or Hell?

Thanks for the superstitious explanation. "thumbsup"

I main point is we must acknowledge our Sin ( Humans all are Sinners ) ;-)

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

1 Kings 8:46
"When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

Ecclesiastes 7:20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Romans 3:9
What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin.
 
I main point is we must acknowledge our Sin ( Humans all are Sinners ) ;-)



23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23



1 Kings 8:46

"When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;



Ecclesiastes 7:20

Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.



Romans 3:9

What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin.


Exactly. We also must acknowledge the Jesus died on the cross FOR our sins to allow US to be in heaven with him showing the GOOD of the Lord.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Belief is not a conscious choice. And to the atheist, the 'gun' is imaginary. Laughable, even.

Belief is EXACTLY a conscious choice. First, it's a choice to say it out loud. Then it's a choice to have the faith to live it. If you say that you believe a chair will hold your weight, but then don't sit in it, then there's no faith in your heart, and the belief is rendered void and useless:

“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, ”that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:*If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.*For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,*for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" (Romans 10:8b-13).

But since you ask: If I put a gun to your head, and told you to believe that gods were nothing but characters in books, could/would you do it?

Nope, I'd say "Jesus is the Son of God, who came and died in your place so that even you could be forgiven by God, so if pull the trigger if you must, knowing that I too forgive you".

However as a non-pacifist, I'd also likely try to pull a Jack Bauer and knock you out with a head butt. :)
 
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Nope, I'd say "Jesus is the Son of God, who came and died in your place so that even you could be forgiven by God, so if pull the trigger if you must, knowing that I too forgive you".

However as a non-pacifist, I'd also likely try to pull a Jack Bauer and knock you out with a head butt. :)

You then concede that belief is not a conscious choice?
 
I main point is we must acknowledge our Sin ( Humans all are Sinners ) ;-)

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

1 Kings 8:46
"When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

Ecclesiastes 7:20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Romans 3:9
What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin.

Without gods, we are without sin. Got any evidence for the existence of gods?
 
Did you actually read the first article? The point is that people are incapable of true objectivity, therefore asking for objective evidence is a fallacy.

What I read was Mr Slick creating a make-believe atheist that allowed the religionist in that hypothetical to define the god in question in a manner that is untestable.

This is an old philosophical slight-of-hand that only catches the unwary and those that have already swallowed the blue pill.

"There's no reason, in theory, why god's presence couldn't be measured or detected in some way. The only reason that believers claim that god "can't" be detected in this way is because god *isn't* detected, and so a vast and intricate rationale has to be devised to explain why this allegedly loving, eternal, all-powerful "something" is, in every external, objective respect, indistinguishable from nothing." -- NMS
 
Pick any decade since the year 66 and religious zealots have been predicting the end of the world as we know it. Just about every religion has felt a compelling need to precisely predict the second coming of Christ or other atrocities that bestow non-believers.

I guess it’s only a minor technicality that not a single prediction to date has come true..... and we’re all still here doing what we’ve always done :lmao:

The Lord works in mysterious ways I suppose, albeit not very accurately....
The LORD specifically says that no one knows when Christ will return except God the Father, so anyone who predicts it is a false prophet who in Old Testament times would have been pelted with stones to death:

Matthew 24:

1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.*2“Do you see all these things?”he asked.*“Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4Jesus answered:*“Watch out that no one deceives you.*5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.*6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.*7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.*8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,*11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,*13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.*14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a*spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—*16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.*17Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house.*18Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!*20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.*23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.*24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.*27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29“Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’b

30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthc*will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d*31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.*33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that ite*is near, right at the door.*34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The Day and Hour Unknown

36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,f*but only the Father.*37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.*38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;*39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.*41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come."


Deuteronomy 18:

20*But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods,*is to be put to death.”

21*You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the*Lord?”*22*If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the*Lord*does not take place or come true,*that is a message the*Lord*has not spoken.*That prophet has spoken presumptuously,*so do not be alarmed.
 
I main point is we must acknowledge our Sin ( Humans all are Sinners ) ;-)

I understand the concept of sin, and why it should be recognized and avoided. I do not understand the concept of God tearing the place up because he's mad at us. That is incredibly childish behavior on Gods part, and incredibly 30th century bc reasoning of the natural world on the believers part.

Sin doesn't cause bad weather and/or natural disasters.

Which would you rather have in your hand, a lottery ticket with 1 in 3,000 chances of winning, or 0 in 0 chances of winning? ;)

Pascals wager. That is a lazy and dishonest argument. Believing in God just in case there actually is a God is akin to wearing garlic around your neck just in case there actually is a Dracula.

Have you never seen a fake lottery ticket? Your chances of winning are still 0.
 
A good friend of mine that happens to be a minister asked me why I didn't believe in Hell, and wouldn't I want justice served to the worst of mankind.


I replied that justice could not be found in repentance.


He had nothing else to say.
Justice isn't found in repentance. It's found in someone else taking the punishment for your wrongdoing. That person was and is Jesus Christ. On the cross, He paid the price for your sins. For 3 days, He descended into hell and served your sentence. The question is whether or not you're willing to receive the gift that He offers you.
 
The LORD specifically says that no one knows when Christ will return except God the Father, so anyone who predicts it is a false prophet who in Old Testament times would have been pelted with stones to death:

It seriously is not necessary to continually quote scripture at length.
 
The LORD specifically says that no one knows when Christ will return except God the Father, so anyone who predicts it is a false prophet who in Old Testament times would have been pelted with stones to death:

*snip*

Of course, if the writers of the bible were fully aware that this religion was a sham, that would be exactly what one would expect to see written into the texts.
 
I gather from that that you are not going to make the effort to learn more about biology and cosmology. "thumbsup"

As long as you are of the right colour, gender, and sexual orientation, of course.

Indeed. Fortunately, atheists can be quite forgiving. :)

It's already happened in this thread.

If Jesus somehow still exists (or even existed), then he is standing idly by, watching children get raped, and doing nothing to prevent it, and saying nothing. This evil that he does gets swept under that rug.

And what of those victims, that lost their faith at the hands of those rapists, their prayers for help unanswered? Under the rug they go. Burn in hell, kids.

God sacrifices himself to himself to save us from an arbitrary rule that he put into place. Amiright?

And is not unethical for a judge to preside over is own affairs? That goes under the rug too?

In your theology, can a murderer go to heaven? Yes or no?

Rather than pick this mess apart, I'll just ask this question: who else is qualified to play judge in a case against God except God Himself? You? Try reading the book of Job, specifically chapters 38-41, and maybe you'll get an idea of how far that'll get you:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+38
 
Rather than pick this mess apart, I'll just ask this question: who else is qualified to play judge in a case against God except God Himself? You? Try reading the book of Job, specifically chapters 38-41, and maybe you'll get an idea of how far that'll get you:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+38

Answer: It's your theology, and not my problem.

Again: In your theology, can a murderer go to heaven? Yes or no?
 
Justice isn't found in repentance. It's found in someone else taking the punishment for your wrongdoing.
How is that justice in any way that the word is commonly used?
That person was and is Jesus Christ. On the cross, He paid the price for your sins. For 3 days, He descended into hell and served your sentence.
A bad long weekend, and then he gets to be a god.

Where was the sacrifice?
The question is whether or not you're willing to receive the gift that He offers you.
Did you not already concede that belief is not a conscious choice?
 
Justice isn't found in repentance.

I'm aware of that, and you missed the point and the meaning of my statement. I was asked why I wouldn't want to see justice served (meaning the bad man spends eternity in Hell) for his wrongdoing. If he repents, then all earthly concepts of justice are thrown to the wind and meaningless. There would be no justice.

For 3 days, He descended into hell and served your sentence.

Only if you're bad at interpreting Peter. Didn't you say earlier that we should interpret as it was written in its time?
 
Justice isn't found in repentance. It's found in someone else taking the punishment for your wrongdoing.
So you think it's ok to sentence the wrong person to death for a murder? If a murder has been committed then someone has to pay. Someone gets executed and everything is fine and dandy again. Whether the executee did it or not is irrelevant.

This is the justice of the bible.

What about the story in the bible about the drunken father (can't remember his name) who had passed out with his junk exposed? His son came to wake him and saw his wedding tackle. The son was beaten for seeing the afforementioned trousersnake. This is said to be well and proper by the bible.
Was the son at fault or the father?
 
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