Alcoholism: Disease or Not?

[vonclod]

i wasa heroin addict for 3 years...NOT a disease..a self imposed sickness that you do have a choice in..10 years ago it was sink or swim so i swam and havent touched anything other than ganja in that 10 years and never will again because i CHOOSE not too..not a disease to be cured by , your friends, god,anyone other than yourself in your own head,.it wasnt easy and im sure detoxing from alcohol is no picknick but its doable , its a mental condition, abusing any mind altering substance for 2 long and you will damage parts of the brain that produce the chemicals that make you feel good, saratonin i believe, thats why the addiction cycle is very hard to break..but in time the brain remembers how to produce it and a person can be as they were, some people have an addictive personality but its not a disease..i was an addict..i,m not diseased..i havent been tempted at all in the last 10..the misery i caused my family and friends..especially myself..i never cured myself from a disease..i healed myself and grew up
i will add that there is evidence that certian races(natives,asians) do have genetic markers that can give them a predisposition but its not a disease..a person still has to go buy a bottle or a flap..it doesnt start on its own..calling an addiction a disease is a cop out to me..an excuse to not take responsability or action to help oneself, but thats just my opinion

 

[crazyorigin]

Someone telling you your not addicted because you kicked the habbit on your own is garbage, that simply means you have much stronger will power than them. Most people that seek help are weak minded (I don't mean that to be insulting) and generally can't do much of anything w/o help.

Substance withdrawls can be painfull and dangerous, I have seen the effects it has on people, but quitting is possible, it is just not easy. I personally feel people that rely on something like AA to fix their problem aren't as serious as someone doing it on their own, they are just looking for something to blame besides themself. Like people will blame diet plans they try for not being good enough and they don't loose weight, they are generally doing it wrong themself, but blame the diet. People in AA can blame AA for not working when they lapse back into drinking, they make AA the scapegoat because it is easier to to than to accept themself as the problem. This is America afterall, we like to blame everyone else for our own problems, most people anyways.

People with drug problems that enroll in Substance Abuse programs generally get perscription drugs to ween them off whatever they are addicted to, many of them leave their programs addicted to whatever they were given there, I have seen it, I don't get why they give junkies drugs to help them get off drugs.......? You don't see AA programs giving their members 20proof alcahol to ween them off the hard stuff (maybe they do, I really don't know, I haven't heard of it tho) most people w/ these addictions will always be addicted to something, its just how they work, weather it be shooting heroine, or baking cakes, they have to have something to be addicted to in order to feel like themself.

This kind of relates to when you hear of extreeme side effects from perscription drugs like Suicide. People with addictions, or conditions requiring such medication are likely to be depressed and want to hurt/kill/poision themself anyways, if they kill themself its because they were depressed, not because they were taking acne medication or drinking. (If that made no sense to you, I appologize, sometimes I see things from a persepctive no one else does hahaha)

 

[johnnyh66]

or building rc trucks

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

I have always believed it to be an addiction and not a disease.

Me too, I grew up with it.

Apply whatever semantic based word you want to it. It's fawked up any way you break it down.

My dad is an alcoholic, I grew up around it which is one reason I rarely drink, and only have a couple when I do.

I don't really care how it is labeled, disease, addiction, affliction, what have you.... It can destroy lives and families. My best wishes to all who suffer from alcoholism and even more so to those who are affected by the alcoholic.

I agree. My Dads was one too.

I've always thought of it more as a weakness.

It is not a weakness, but it will make you weak.

Yes. There are quite a few cancers that are not genetic and are "caused" by actions of the person.

As for alcoholism being a disease.....no more so than smoking cigarettes. Some folks might have a "genetic predisposition" for drinking, but I believe that to be more of a "predisposition" for addiction, they just happen to see family members consume alcohol frequently and focus their predisposition on that.

I grew up with it until new years eve ,when I was 11. My Dad and mom came home from a party. Mom didn't drink.
The people at the party asked my mom to get my dad out of there. She told him that after he got home. I was in bed and could hear them. My Dad got mad and said he was going to take his shotgun and go back down there. Hearing this I ran to their room and got the gun, I heard my dad coming and jump out the window with the gun. I was in my underwear freezing my ass off outside the window. It took my Dad an hour or so to forget about it and fall asleep.
I put the gun in my fort and went back into the house. My mom was blown away when I walked back in. I told her what I did.

The next day my dad was all sorry just like he always was. My mom told me to tell my dad what I did. I never saw my Dad cry until that day.

My Dad never drank again after that day. Our lives change alot from that day on. My Dad was the best Dad a guy could have after that.

Is it a disease, I don't think so. I really feel that if somebody don't quit, it is because they don't want to and are just selfish. They only care about their own pain and not the pain that they are putting on the ones around them.

 

[johnnyh66]

Me too, I grew up with it.

I agree. My Dads was one too.

It is not a weakness, but it will make you weak.

I grew up with it until new years eve ,when I was 11. My Dad and mom came home from a party. Mom didn't drink.
The people at the party asked my mom to get my dad out of there. She told him that after he got home. I was in bed and could hear them. My Dad got mad and said he was going to take his shotgun and go back down there. Hearing this I ran to their room and got the gun, I heard my dad coming and jump out the window with the gun. I was in my underwear freezing my ass off outside the window. It took my Dad an hour or so to forget about it and fall asleep.
I put the gun in my fort and went back into the house. My mom was blown away when I walked back in. I told her what I did.

The next day my dad was all sorry just like he always was. My mom told me to tell my dad what I did. I never saw my Dad cry until that day.

My Dad never drank again after that day. Our lives change alot from that day on. My Dad was the best Dad a guy could have after that.

Is it a disease, I don't think so. I really feel that if somebody don't quit, it is because they don't want to and are just selfish. They only care about their own pain and not the pain that they are putting on the ones around them.

Amen brotha.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

People in AA can blame AA for not working when they lapse back into drinking, they make AA the scapegoat because it is easier to to than to accept themself as the problem. This is America afterall, we like to blame everyone else for our own problems, most people anyways.

Yes. It is infinitely easier to lay blame on an inanimate object or an organization than it is to lay it on yourself. I will guarantee you that in nearly every addict you will find an underlying psychological issue that was either there before or as a result of the addiction. The cause of the issue may or may not have been your doing, but in effect is, as TexasSP said, the core reason that the addiction continues.

Saying that alcoholism or any addiction for that matter is a disease is shifting the blame away from why you are addicted. It may be that some painful time in your past is soothed or forgotten when you are loaded, or it may be that you tried something, liked it, got physically addicted to it, and you continue the act because you feel like shit about what you've done.

Until you can pinpoint and come to terms with why you do what you do, you will never really correct that behavior. You may deal with it or struggle with it, but it will never be properly resolved. Putting a bandaide on a bullet wound certainly makes it appear better, and some pills might take the edge off of the pain, but there is still a hole that needs attending to.

This kind of relates to when you hear of extreeme side effects from perscription drugs like Suicide. People with addictions, or conditions requiring such medication are likely to be depressed and want to hurt/kill/poision themself anyways, if they kill themself its because they were depressed, not because they were taking acne medication or drinking. (If that made no sense to you, I appologize, sometimes I see things from a persepctive no one else does hahaha)

Medication is only part of a treatment and does nothing to heal anybody. Its Novocaine for the soul.

When Prozac was released and in full swing, there were allegations that in some cases it enhanced suicidal tendencies. They of course denied that. Years later they came out with a new and improved version of Prozac, and guess what one of the advantages were that it had over the original...


...a reduced chance of enhanced suicidal tendencies.

http://www.narpa.org/prozac.revisited.htm

 

[skid]

Saying that alcoholism or any addiction for that matter is a disease is shifting the blame away from why you are addicted. It may be that some painful time in your past is soothed or forgotten when you are loaded, or it may be that you tried something, liked it, got physically addicted to it, and you continue the act because you feel like shit about what you've done.

For me Alcoholic is an abuse of alcohol. Alcoholism is not being able to control it. Two different things in my eyes. You don't have to be addicted to have alcoholism.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

For me Alcoholic is an abuse of alcohol. Alcoholism is not being able to control it. Two different things in my eyes. You don't have to be addicted to have alcoholism.

So an alcoholic is someone who purposely abuses alcohol? Free and perfectly willing?

What would you call someone suffering from alcoholism then? An alcoholismer?

 

[johnnyh66]

I know when I get home tonight I'm gonna smack me around a few beers!

 

[Trubble]

I hadda put the bottle down at a rather early age, as I found out I couldn't control it.
Wasn't so much a disease, in my opinion, as a really bad choice I kept making over and over.

Now, it no longer takes me three hours to get home, and I can remember pretty much everything I did. That, and I can live just fine without a chemical modifier that just makes me meaner than I am sober.

Disease? Meh, whatever they hafta call it in order to force the insurance companies to pay for treating it, I guess.

 

[skid]

What would you call someone suffering from alcoholism then? An alcoholismer?

What would you call someone with cancer, a cancerer?:lmao: Parkinsons? Parkinsonser? I just say they suffer from alcoholism.

 

[RANOVRU]

Seems I had this in the wrong thread...


Most of you know I dont agree with the notion of addiction. Calling an addiction a disease just worsens the misconception, putting it in the ranks of cancer and the like.

You choose what you do and dont do, that is it. Mental illness is another subject altogether which goes into the same catagory as disabillity. No matter how bad you want to youre not going to grow an arm that you were born without. Addiction is just one more way of you giving up your free will, that imo has been used for the last century by the people that be in just another effort to control. "You must do this or that to fix yourself." Its actually eerily simular to the way in which religion has been used with misconstrued purpose to me.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

What would you call someone with cancer, a cancerer?:lmao: Parkinsons? Parkinsonser? I just say they suffer from alcoholism.

They call people from Canada Canadians, so who knows. :ror:

Good point though.

 

[DickyT]

They call people from Canada Canadians, so who knows. :ror:

Good point though.

But why don't they call it Canadia?

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Most of you know I dont agree with the notion of addiction. Calling an addiction a disease just worsens the misconception, putting it in the ranks of cancer and the like.

You choose what you do and dont do, that is it. Mental illness is another subject altogether which goes into the same catagory as disabillity. No matter how bad you want to youre not going to grow an arm that you were born without. Addiction is just one more way of you giving up your free will, that imo has been used for the last century by the people that be in just another effort to control. "You must do this or that to fix yourself." Its actually eerily simular to the way in which religion has been used with misconstrued purpose to me.

I wouldn't disassociate mental illness from alcohol abuse or alcoholism. Mental illness is a wide spectrum, everybody has at least some sort of quirk and some are flat out insane, just like you can be ill with the sniffles or be ill and on your death bed.

Adding an impairing substance to the mix is a game changer to anyone's mental state. In some cases it can compound and perpetuate both the underlying issue and the dependency on the substance.

Some people are just not emotionally able to help themselves. Realizing that you alone are the constant denominator within your realm of issues can be a bit of a bitch.

Calling alcoholism a disease may ease the minds of those afflicted with that condition, but it does nothing to acknowledge the real issue, which gives licence to those with that problem to say "its not my fault, its a disease and I can't help myself" while they are drinking themselves to death.

 

[skid]

So is Canada a disease?:lmao:Kidding, just a "shiny"/ "oh, squirrel!" distraction from the seriousness of the topic.

 

[JeremyH]

...which gives licence to those with that problem to say "its not my fault, its a disease and I can't help myself" while they are drinking themselves to death.

This reminded me of an interesting article a read a while back. It was about about a house for alcoholics that was sort of a rehab center. It wasnt primarily focused on getting the people to stop abusing alcohol, but merely to give them a safe place to drink. Yes, the people were given government money (albeit, not a lot) which they were allowed to use to purchase alcohol and drink it on the facility grounds (which I am sure was also maintained by government dollars)...

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

This reminded me of an interesting article a read a while back. It was about about a house for alcoholics that was sort of a rehab center. It wasnt primarily focused on getting the people to stop abusing alcohol, but merely to give them a safe place to drink. Yes, the people were given government money (albeit, not a lot) which they were allowed to use to purchase alcohol and drink it on the facility grounds (which I am sure was also maintained by government dollars)...

Maybe we should do that for child molesters (they too have a disease, its not their fault) instead of putting them in prison.

 

[JeremyH]

I'm sure they'd love that! :lol:

 

[johnnyh66]

This reminded me of an interesting article a read a while back. It was about about a house for alcoholics that was sort of a rehab center. It wasnt primarily focused on getting the people to stop abusing alcohol, but merely to give them a safe place to drink. Yes, the people were given government money (albeit, not a lot) which they were allowed to use to purchase alcohol and drink it on the facility grounds (which I am sure was also maintained by government dollars)...

This is the shit my wife (mental health worker) and I disagree on...

ugh, I was writing a rant here but it got out of control.
I'll just say, that's B.S.