Crawler King (mod) need help, motor stall, overheating?

[inebriatedmarmoset]

hey all, I have a Crawler King that has the stock 55T motor+esc+radio system but now has some extra weight because im using Proline's titus tuner weights (2x4oz + 2 12oz.) with the titus wheels and HB white Rovers. I did do the servo over axle mod first with a hi tech hs-7955tg which was awesome, definitely noticed the increased control, but now the next issue i have is that im noticing a lot of motor stall and overheating particularly when climbing.

My question is, what would be the next suggested/best route to eliminate this and improve it's capability?

I've read threads about the hpi gear reduction box and was thinking this could solve my troubles? but also don't know anything about gearing down or what motor+pinion+spur combo set up to where you still have great torque/climbing ablity but still a decent top speed so it's not terribly slow which is ideally what im looking for, maybe the gear reduc box and a 35T or 45T? duno what pin or spur set up though, since i also saw that the gear box does slow the speed down significantly...

I really like the CK and am getting better /more into mod'ing and want this thing to be a contender, maybe unstoppable ha, but what can i do to obtain more throttle control and less motor stall? I thought the 55T would have provided the torque needed or maybe im missing something, still really new to the crawling scene and need to learn a lot more....but the addiction is there =)

any and all suggestions for this issue and anything else to improve it's performance from this point on are greatly appreciated! thanks all!!!

if there are other threads already that could help, a link to those would help too...

 

[inebriatedmarmoset]

Will try to get some pics up too

 

[inebriatedmarmoset]

hmm well i couldn't figure out how to get the pics posted w/o compromising detail, so here are some links if it helps

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/inebriatedmarmoset/Photo0236.jpg
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/inebriatedmarmoset/Photo0235.jpg
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/inebriatedmarmoset/Photo0191.jpg
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/inebriatedmarmoset/Photo0193.jpg

These above were before I added the titus wheels + weights, and I'm a little concerned that there isnt much clearance between the servo and the bottom of the battery bay after the servo-over-axle mod, not sure if that's really a problem or not, i.e. impact to servo from driving over bumps etc.

with the titus wheels/rovers
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/inebriatedmarmoset/Photo0253-1.jpg
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/inebriatedmarmoset/Photo0244.jpg
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab326/inebriatedmarmoset/Photo0247.jpg

 

[uplate]

Sounds like you need better gearing or friction fixing. First thing to look for is jammed or tight moving parts. The axles, drive shafts, and transmission should all operate smoothly. With a 55t motor you shouldn't be seeing overheating temps. Mabye the gear mesh from the motor pinion to spur is to tight? You could drop the pinion, and raise the spur gear tooth count. I was running a 55t motor. Conected to an 13t pinion and 96t spur. It's a great combo for torque. Overheating was a thing of the past, even on 3 cell lipo. I've sense moved on to a 35t handwound motor. Still very little heat on the esc or motor. 13/96 works great and it's a cheep mod. I'm also thinking mabye it's just the addition of your weights. But that should be fixed by lowering your pinion gear tooth count. Watchout you'll get to the point that your machine will break axles shafts on command :twisted: .

 

[menace]

I installed the gear reduction unit and am very reluctant to pull it out--the torque is absolutely amazing--it did kill my wheelspeed so I popped a 19T motor and then I have the best of both worlds--as far as friction goes, if you haven't done it in a while crack open your tranny and check the bearings--I had two seized ones that were killing my movement--I also had a seized one in the rear diff case. After I replacd/freed them up it was all good.

 

[uplate]

check the bearings--I had two seized ones that were killing my movement--I also had a seized one in the rear diff case. After I replacd/freed them up it was all good.

Good call forgot about them little bearings "thumbsup". Never tried the G.R.U. myself, but figure with a 55t motor it'd be a tad to slow. Lol I was toying with the idea of a G.R.U. and brushless combo. So many directions you can head in. I LOVE THIS HOBBY!!!

 

[menace]

Yup RC is like everything else--with enough time and money anything is possible! (heavy on the money:ror

 

[ThunderVP]

The stock ESC is limited. It has no real drag brake, and throttle resolution is too course. The stock 55T also is not that strong. As with most silver can motors, the can magnets are not very powerful. You can put all the windings you want in a motor, but if it has weak magnets, it will not produce torque.

A good 540 45T or 55T motor, 96T spur, 13-18T pinion and a better ESC and you should be golden. You could also step up a cell in your battery to gain more speed after adding more gear ratio.

 

[inebriatedmarmoset]

Sounds like you need better gearing or friction fixing. First thing to look for is jammed or tight moving parts. The axles, drive shafts, and transmission should all operate smoothly. With a 55t motor you shouldn't be seeing overheating temps. Mabye the gear mesh from the motor pinion to spur is to tight? You could drop the pinion, and raise the spur gear tooth count. I was running a 55t motor. Conected to an 13t pinion and 96t spur. It's a great combo for torque. Overheating was a thing of the past, even on 3 cell lipo. I've sense moved on to a 35t handwound motor. Still very little heat on the esc or motor. 13/96 works great and it's a cheep mod. I'm also thinking mabye it's just the addition of your weights. But that should be fixed by lowering your pinion gear tooth count. Watchout you'll get to the point that your machine will break axles shafts on command :twisted: .

Uplate! dude, you're awesome! thanks so much for that info...i will definitely try that pinion/spur gear combo first, since it's a cheaper mod and see how it works with just the 55T before trying a lower turn motor. I just never knew that it was dropping the pinion and raising the spur gear tooth count to gear it down....though i don't think the mesh is that tight, but it has been a while and i haven't done a complete maintenance yet since i got it....

I installed the gear reduction unit and am very reluctant to pull it out--the torque is absolutely amazing--it did kill my wheelspeed so I popped a 19T motor and then I have the best of both worlds--as far as friction goes, if you haven't done it in a while crack open your tranny and check the bearings--I had two seized ones that were killing my movement--I also had a seized one in the rear diff case. After I replacd/freed them up it was all good.

on that note,

menace! you're awesome too! i will def go thru my entire rig and clean and check the gears and for any seized/locked bearings, relube or replace if necessary and if the 13/96 combo with the 55T still doesn't get to what im looking for, i'll try a lower turn motor with the G.R.U....which im still a little compelled to try for the amazing torque that i'm reading alot about from others who've used it ...=)

though, how slow would it be with the 13/19 combo with say, a 35T or 45T motor?

thanks again for the responses guys!!! this definitely helps! ditto on that last thought too, Uplate, so glad i finally got into something that just keeps getting more badass "thumbsup"

 

[rottenbelly]

Don't waste your money on the Gru!! (more gears to break and high C. G.)
Invest in a good handwound motor (35 t Holmes hobbies or equal). Then a good esc that will run 3 s lipo and you will never look back! I was running a 12/96 on mine with 3s and had all the wheelspeed and driveshaft snapping, spur stripping torque I could handle!

 

[inebriatedmarmoset]

The stock ESC is limited. It has no real drag brake, and throttle resolution is too course. The stock 55T also is not that strong. As with most silver can motors, the can magnets are not very powerful. You can put all the windings you want in a motor, but if it has weak magnets, it will not produce torque.

A good 540 45T or 55T motor, 96T spur, 13-18T pinion and a better ESC and you should be golden. You could also step up a cell in your battery to gain more speed after adding more gear ratio.

ThunderVP! thanks too, for the insight! right on! that's good to know about the esc and stock 55T....

What would be a good 540 45T motor? sorry for the dumb newbie question but, is the stock 55T not considered "540"? is that referring to the strength rating of the magnets? Or maybe im just missing

But i'll definitely also look into getting a better ESC and possibly a 3 cell lipo...any suggestions/recommendations for a new motor and ESC???

and if say i got a 3 cell lipo (running 2 cell now) would there be anything i need to watch out for? or would that just give it more power? more heat?

 

[inebriatedmarmoset]

Don't waste your money on the Gru!! (more gears to break and high C. G.)
Invest in a good handwound motor (35 t Holmes hobbies or equal). Then a good esc that will run 3 s lipo and you will never look back! I was running a 12/96 on mine with 3s and had all the wheelspeed and driveshaft snapping, spur stripping torque I could handle!

Hmm, good point, thanks rotten! i'll keep that in mind, hopefully, with just a better motor, better esc, and the 12,13-18pinion with a 96 spur and 3 s lipo i'll get closer to discovering my ideal setup...

and why wouldn't some esc's not be able to handle 3s?

 

[rottenbelly]

Some esc's like the rooster are only rated for 2 cell lipo. A 3 cell might make it let out the magic smoke!
I run tekin fx-r(3s rated) and the Holmes Hobbies br-xl( which is rated up to 6s lipo!!!)
Both are great esc's.

 

[uplate]

Invest in a good handwound motor (35 t Holmes hobbies or equal). Then a good esc that will run 3 s lipo and you will never look back! I was running a 12/96 on mine with 3s and had all the wheelspeed and driveshaft snapping, spur stripping torque I could handle!

Glad to be of help .

Check out the pinion/spur combo. Then follow Rottenbelly and ThunderVP's advice to dial it in "thumbsup" . You could check the venders section, for a handwound 35t or 45t ( I personally love my Warrior 35R/T ) brushed mod motor. Shoot mabye you could get a Holmes Cobalt ( that'd be sweet ).

Take a look at Castle Creations Sidewinder ESC. It's not to spendy and it'll handle the load your looking at.

When applying more voltage to the motor. The brushes and com wear faster. Kinda like overclocking a computer chip. Long life decrease, but instant speed increase. Just like in overclocking, heat is a concern. A good rule of thumb is. Put a finger on your motor and esc. If you can't keep it there for more than a 20-30 seconds. You might be damaging your electronics. Air flow, fans and reduced gearing can all be effective in overheating control.

540 is the size of your motor can. It's also pretty much the standard motor for 1/10th scale.

 

[inebriatedmarmoset]

Some esc's like the rooster are only rated for 2 cell lipo. A 3 cell might make it let out the magic smoke!
I run tekin fx-r(3s rated) and the Holmes Hobbies br-xl( which is rated up to 6s lipo!!!)
Both are great esc's.

Glad to be of help .

Check out the pinion/spur combo. Then follow Rottenbelly and ThunderVP's advice to dial it in "thumbsup" . You could check the venders section, for a handwound 35t or 45t ( I personally love my Warrior 35R/T ) brushed mod motor. Shoot mabye you could get a Holmes Cobalt ( that'd be sweet ).

Take a look at Castle Creations Sidewinder ESC. It's not to spendy and it'll handle the load your looking at.

When applying more voltage to the motor. The brushes and com wear faster. Kinda like overclocking a computer chip. Long life decrease, but instant speed increase. Just like in overclocking, heat is a concern. A good rule of thumb is. Put a finger on your motor and esc. If you can't keep it there for more than a 20-30 seconds. You might be damaging your electronics. Air flow, fans and reduced gearing can all be effective in overheating control.

540 is the size of your motor can. It's also pretty much the standard motor for 1/10th scale.

Hey, sorry for the late reply. But thanks so so much for the suggestions/advice, guys! uplate, thanks for clearing that up and the tips, man! im super stoked know that i have some direction to start out with, though i'll need to save up for a bit before the upgrades, though i'll post an update when it happens...for now just ordered the 12/96 from tcscrawler:

http://www.tcscrawlers.com/HPI-Pinion-Gear-12-tooth-100911-p-17475.html
http://www.tcscrawlers.com/HPI-6996...-the-gearing-on-your-Wheely-King-p-16373.html

hey also,
are all the holmes cobalt motors handwound? are they ranked among the best rated/reliable? (given the funds, heh)
and given the funds, out of the esc's that were mentioned above, which would be the best bet out of them in the long run or are they just different depending on rig set up/driving style?

tekin fx-r(3s rated)
Holmes Hobbies br-xl
Castle Creations Sidewinder

oh and who makes the Warrior 35R/T ? how does it compare to say, a holmes handwound?

also, was thinking of upgrading the radio system, would it be much of an improvement after the motor+esc+pinion/spur upgrades? like what other than more control would it gain from a better tx/rx? was thinking of getting a 3-channel in case i want to add like a lighting system, or 4wheel steering, or a winch.. any suggestions on what if i do?

would i need a 3-channel if i wanted to say, incorporate a dig system ? which i've been wanting to look into but don't know much about how that all works, i just know that at barely steep inclines/decents, my CK will start to roll, there's like no drag brake(?) at all....

i have a losi night crawler and the stock dig on that thing is awesome, and will not move even on crazy inclines, though i don't expect the CK's drag break to be that strong, i at least want it to not roll so easily. will the low gearing (pinion/spur combo) and motor+esc upgrades take care of that?


sorry for all the noob inquiries.....!

but thanks again, dudes! rccrawler rules, love this site, cool people, so helpful, site rocks!

 

[inebriatedmarmoset]

Update!

Just ordered from Holmes Hobbies after reading some fantastic feedback about them: custom handwound 40T TorquemasterPro (since the cobalt pullers were out of stock =( but was totally going to go all out and get the 10T as I've been reading amazing things about them, also since it's longer than the 540 cans, i have a feeling i'd probably end up trimming, heh thanks uplate...) and the Tekin FX-R! (thanks rottenbelly! though i was also looking at the Sidewinder but i figured since i've got the funds, the FX-R sounded like a pretty sweet upgrade from an awesome review by Kaetwo - http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105316)

Im wondering if i should get a BEC....not sure about the exact usage/importance of having one, but from what i've read it seems like it can be helpful in tight situations

I'll eventually get this updated again with more posts/pics just for self archiving purposes, since im not sure if anyone is still viewing this thread lol

but, man...i am super stoked about this, going to be so fun putting this together, let alone the blast i'll be having running it and probably more fine tuning after that....

 

[uplate]

:twisted:Your gonna have gobs of torque.:twisted:

You can probley get away without a BEC for now. Lol, the only reason I needed one, was because of dual servos. They just drew to much juice off my ESC.

Man upgrading radios is just plain awesome! Lots of options to choose from. Think your headed in the right direction with at least a 3 channel.

Have ya thought about a chassis yet? Before you blink you'll have a grand in your crawler. What with aluminum this and that. It can add up fast. Shoot a new radios between $200 and $300. :lmao:

upgrading pics are allways nice to look at "thumbsup" .

 

[Creepy Inc.]

FXR kicks ass"thumbsup"

 

[rottenbelly]

With the tekin FX-R and your hitech 7955 you will need a bec.. Thats the only real drawback on a fx-r. when your steering gets in a big bind it will suck all the power out of it and most likely make the radio cut out.
My spektrums were BAD about doing that. Bec fixed it!!

I hated trying to push all the bottons to program the tekin so i got the link deal for the computer. Makes it super easy to set up and program. "thumbsup"

For a radio, do some reasearch first. I have had most radio systems out there. I got rid of them all and went to futaba's.
Both my kids have 3 PM-X's and love them. I run the 4 pk.:mrgreen::mrgreen:
great for running digs, winches, etc.
Anyways, a good radio will help by letting you set your endpoints on your goodies and not burn up your servo by overdriving it. "thumbsup"
( End point adjustments are a MUST when running a servo powered dig!!)

 

[inebriatedmarmoset]

right on, guys!

Well now im def thinking of upgrading the radio (will check out futaba's) and will look into a BEC with what i've got comin' (thanks rotten! "thumbsup") any suggestions on good BEC's ? ....was still going to do the research but if you have a tip on what to keep an eye out for, it totally helps...

Anyways, a good radio will help by letting you set your endpoints on your goodies and not burn up your servo by overdriving it. "thumbsup"
( End point adjustments are a MUST when running a servo powered dig!!)

... oh and can you help me understand a bit more about setting the endpoint adjustments? Cause i have been very much interested in setting up a dig system, if not my CK then possibly my AX-10 or nightcrawler...so knowing more of what i need to know to get that set up will def help....

and correct me if im wrong, but with a dig set up , we're talking about basically adding a dig unit to the transmission, preventing the rear wheels (rear more common) from rolling, creating that pivot point at one end of the chassis or rather still allowing them to roll which would give better maneuver/turn technique and in help in climbing (preventing roll overs) and descending steep inclines?


Uplate,
yeah with the torquemaster pro i had that feeling, though i hope it won't be too much torque?? like, i hope it won't be too much of an issue,/cause other probs, lack of wheelspeed n what not...but yeah, i think eventually, i'll upgrade the chassis too, though you're right, may need to pace myself realizing all that i've invested so far and will invest in... but it's the part of the journey...:ror:

and i agree! Will not forget to post upgrade pics!

a thousand thanks again, guys!