e's ExMT

[ekd]

Eric, got to IttyBitty's supah build. He has already made a set of low profiles that look sweet.

There is nothing uncommon about the materials/parts used, that beauty comes from making perfect sense.

The nanosecond a lug goes past the flex needed to conform and grip.... you are losing.

As to bicycle tires... There are plenty of guys here who could go down a line of tires, and by simply scratching each of them with a thumbnail, tell you which are worth exploring. I want to be them... soon.

I'll bet you a Quality Adult Beverage that M could make a set of tires out of them, while eating a couple cheese burgers... in a lunch hour.

 

[ekd]

Anyone who is bothered by the smell of old people should leave now... I'm firing up the Way Back Machine to enjoyably (for me) make a point.

In '79, we had suspension and power figured out well enough that tires were the (dangerously) limiting factor. A Pro (Pee Wee Gleason, 1/2 my size... 1000x the skill) took this bike to a 10 flat at OCIR. Without wheelie bars.

The only way I could survive a run at 22psi (Avgas) was to do a dance of death with a lethally sticky racing clutch (Barnett), until safely in second... then hold a 1 foot wheelie through the next few gears... praying my unicycle didn't lose traction.

The R Continental was state of the art at the time ($80 a pop), and was the only thing keeping that rig (with a good, light rider) from street legal 9s.

Half the fun for me is finding what is left to refine... then making damn sure it is past me to do so. Every good innovation is preceded by expert claims that it can't be done. It is a testimony to the quality of the minds in this dump, that so few feel compelled to do that.

"thumbsup"

 

[monkeyracer]

Anyone who is bothered by the smell of old people should leave now... I'm firing up the Way Back Machine to enjoyably (for me) make a point.

In '79, we had suspension and power figured out well enough that tires were the (dangerously) limiting factor. A Pro (Pee Wee Gleason, 1/2 my size... 1000x the skill) took this bike to a 10 flat at OCIR. Without wheelie bars.

The only way I could survive a run at 22psi (Avgas) was to do a dance of death with a lethally sticky racing clutch (Barnett), until safely in second... then hold a 1 foot wheelie through the next few gears... praying my unicycle didn't lose traction.

The R Continental was state of the art at the time ($80 a pop), and was the only thing keeping that rig (with a good, light rider) from street legal 9s.

Half the fun for me is finding what is left to refine... then making damn sure it is past me to do so. Every good innovation is preceded by expert claims that it can't be done. It is a testimony to the quality of the minds in this dump, that so few feel compelled to do that.

"thumbsup"

That pic reminds me of my '82 CB750SC Nighthawk from a few years back:

It needed some jet work or a lower elevation to really sing (carbs struggle a little at 6000 ft and totally dogged down at 8000 ft) but it was a great bike, and I am sad I sold it. None of the plastic fairings you see on the crotch rockets, but all the get-up-n-go with the 750cc motor. When the throttle was wrapped out, that exhaust was mean, but rolling through the neighborhoods I can sneak up on a squirrel unlike the burping belches of the Harley cruisers. Damn, now I need to get another one.


I'd be glad to help with some bike tires, get me the right tread, and we can talk. I'd thought about it before, but all my bike tires are pretty hard compound. The only issue I can see is the different bead, but for something that size, you'd need custom wheels and you can design the bead into the wheels.

 

[ekd]

Damn, now I need to get another one.


I'd be glad to help with some bike tires, get me the right tread, and we can talk. I'd thought about it before, but all my bike tires are pretty hard compound. The only issue I can see is the different bead, but for something that size, you'd need custom wheels and you can design the bead into the wheels.

If you told me that I could ride again, and limited me to early '80s bikes... I'd kiss your (insert anatomical region here) right here, right now... and you'd never see me again. Those were good years for all concerned.

The tires are on the list, my friend. In ink. You'll hear from me!

 

[BentMetaL]

Anyone who is bothered by the smell of old people should leave now... I'm firing up the Way Back Machine to enjoyably (for me) make a point.

In '79, we had suspension and power figured out well enough that tires were the (dangerously) limiting factor. A Pro (Pee Wee Gleason, 1/2 my size... 1000x the skill) took this bike to a 10 flat at OCIR. Without wheelie bars.

The only way I could survive a run at 22psi (Avgas) was to do a dance of death with a lethally sticky racing clutch (Barnett), until safely in second... then hold a 1 foot wheelie through the next few gears... praying my unicycle didn't lose traction.

The R Continental was state of the art at the time ($80 a pop), and was the only thing keeping that rig (with a good, light rider) from street legal 9s.

Half the fun for me is finding what is left to refine... then making damn sure it is past me to do so. Every good innovation is preceded by expert claims that it can't be done. It is a testimony to the quality of the minds in this dump, that so few feel compelled to do that.

"thumbsup"

Hey that was a turbo charged scooter wasn't it? In my day, I rode a '67 Bonneville with a 750 kit. Mine was setup like a Cafe racer. Less than 300LBS

 

[Abavuso]

Well, I found some interesting information for a hub motor. Looks like to have a small hub motor for a super we'll have to make one our self. I did find some pan & Can Stack motors that might work on a 1.9 or 2.2 but nothing that would have enough power to scoot a super. Main issue is going to be low speed control with out gearing it down. The other option I researches was using some small stepper motors. It would totaly work just attaching the wheel to the motor, then you get into needing the controlers for the Stepper to be small eough. I suspect if you could make a custom controler but this is all going way beyone my ability at the moment.

For my aproch, this might be the best bet for the $$
DC Motor: High Torque Mini 12V DC Gear Motor, 50 rpm for Hobby Projects

Of one of these but I'de be conserned with destroying it.

http://www.batteryspace.com/dcmotorhightorqueminidcgearmotor3-12v1300rpmforhobbyrobots.aspx

I might buy one to toy with and see what I come up with.

I did find this You tube video, very interesting but doesn't seam to have much of a low end.

http://youtu.be/9JTsUT0jmd0

Perhaps I'll just get smart and make one Though after reading the following article, The best way to do it I though would be with a gear reduction unit built into the hub motor. For racing RC and high speed, It might be ok but I don't think it would do the trick for crawling.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Your-Own-Miniature-Electric-Hub-Motor/

 

[ekd]

Hey that was a turbo charged scooter wasn't it? In my day, I rode a '67 Bonneville with a 750 kit. Mine was setup like a Cafe racer. Less than 300LBS

A friend of Dad's bought one new in '67. I was 11, and riding a Honda 50... and to this day I'm not sure what I lusted after more...the "older" girls in the neighborhood, or that Bonnie.

"thumbsup"

Well, I found some interesting information for a hub motor... Though after reading the following article, The best way to do it I though would be with a gear reduction unit built into the hub motor. For racing RC and high speed, It might be ok but I don't think it would do the trick for crawling.
Make Your Own Miniature Electric Hub Motor

Dead right, A. Something thing to remember is that a true hubmotor (no trans, 1 shared shaft only) will have little off power drag. At that slow armature speed, even shorting it will not help much for crawling. A MIW will have twice the drag (and brakes) of a typical design.

In the pre-Lipo days, I was playing with motorized bikes for fun, and did a bunch of study on hub motors. They have come a long way since then, but not in high torque/light weight slow speed apps.

If we could find a high torque "pancake" motor, we could have zero idlers, and still avoid hanging out to the inside so much. That clearance (and CG) is why I want to fold the standard motor under.

A, I suspect your earlier design (straight line, plantetary, big Cs) may end up the best balance of efficiency, power options, and plain common sense. Don't be surprised if you hit it right, straight out of the holster.

What would we lose by going back to wider wheels?

 

[ekd]

UPS just showed. Time for me to shut up, and put up.

 

[Abavuso]

A friend of Dad's bought one new in '67. I was 11, and riding a Honda 50... and to this day I'm not sure what I lusted after more...the "older" girls in the neighborhood, or that Bonnie.

"thumbsup"
Dead right, A. Something thing to remember is that a true hubmotor (no trans, 1 shared shaft only) will have little off power drag. At that slow armature speed, even shorting it will not help much for crawling. A MIW will have twice the drag (and brakes) of a typical design.

In the pre-Lipo days, I was playing with motorized bikes for fun, and did a bunch of study on hub motors. They have come a long way since then, but not in high torque/light weight slow speed apps.

If we could find a high torque "pancake" motor, we could have zero idlers, and still avoid hanging out to the inside so much. That clearance (and CG) is why I want to fold the standard motor under.

A, I suspect your earlier design (straight line, plantetary, big Cs) may end up the best balance of efficiency, power options, and plain common sense. Don't be surprised if you hit it right, straight out of the holster.

What would we lose by going back to wider wheels?

My bigest consern is the stress on the gear box attached directly to the axle. All the gear boxes I've found so far only have a 4 mm output. Seams like that would be kind of a desaster on such a large rig. I might just see what i can do to design some sort of gear reduction that I can slap between two aluminum plates and mount a 380 motor on it so that I have an 8mm out put shaft from the main drive gear. If that were possable then that should be a solid solution.

This is by far a technical drawing, but this is what I was thinking.

Also with the 380 motor on this setup and a 2 inch wheels you should only have about half the motor can sticking out the wheel.

5mm shafts for the gears the 8mm shaft for the out-put and the gear ration I would like to achieve is 80:1 since it will be a 380 motor and not a 540 motor.

KEY -

Gray - Gear Shafts
RED - Motor
Yellow - Gear

 

[asw27x]

heres what i came up with i was thinking a 93t spur with a 9t pinion on a novak 18.5 brushless on a HPI blast wheel
and you can clock the motor any place you want

the other 2 circles were there as reference

 

[monkeyracer]

This is by far a technical drawing, but this is what I was thinking.

You have way too many gears there. The only two that affect ratio is the pinion attached to the motor and the final gear. Everything else simply stretches the distance and reverses the rotation.
80:1 would need some co-axial mounted gears (look inside the Mad Torque trans) to step down the ratio. The MT gearbox is 40:1 for reference. To make it 80:1 you would either need to use 1/2 the teeth on the pinion, double the teeth on any large gear, or spread the number of teeth along the gearbox.

A planetary gearbox would be a great idea, and I think I saw a 540 size motor planetary gearbox on pololu that might work (of course with a better 540 motor)
There are some 380 size gear motors as well we can look at.

 

[Abavuso]

heres what i came up with i was thinking a 93t spur with a 9t pinion on a novak 18.5 brushless on a HPI blast wheel
and you can clock the motor any place you want

the other 2 circles were there as reference

Too big and too expensive.

 

[asw27x]

Too big and too expensive.

its got 2 gears and one motor thats it

 

[Abavuso]

its got 2 gears and one motor thats it

Perhaps you havn't read what we are doing hear, to do what you're talking about would require 4 18.5's and 5 Novak ESC's not to mentuon it's a 540 motor, not very small to cram into a 40 series wheel. That's easily $800 in eletronics alone. If you look at the design concept (actual size) I posted (POST 220) you will see that using the 540 would make the C area too bulky, not to mention more weight per wheel then trying to achieve. Good Idea for more power, just not cost efective or functional size.

 

[Abavuso]

A planetary gearbox would be a great idea, and I think I saw a 540 size motor planetary gearbox on pololu that might work (of course with a better 540 motor)
There are some 380 size gear motors as well we can look at.

At first I was thinking the 380 size wouldn't cut it but the more I think about it, we are using 1 380 motor to push 1 wheel of the rig so with 4 380's I think we will be alright. As long as we can get an output shaft that's stout enough.

 

[asw27x]

Perhaps you havn't read what we are doing hear, to do what you're talking about would require 4 18.5's and 5 Novak ESC's not to mentuon it's a 540 motor, not very small to cram into a 40 series wheel. That's easily $800 in eletronics alone. If you look at the design concept (actual size) I posted (POST 220) you will see that using the 540 would make the C area too bulky, not to mention more weight per wheel then trying to achieve. Good Idea for more power, just not cost efective or functional size.

TowerHobbies.com | 3055 Novak Mongoose Crawler Micro Brushless System 18.5T

 

[biev]

Does anyone know if the xr10 gears and mt gears from the axles will swap out? I busted a 12tooth gear shaft last night and need my crawling fix.

 

[Abavuso]

Does anyone know if the xr10 gears and mt gears from the axles will swap out? I busted a 12tooth gear shaft last night and need my crawling fix.

I don't think they will.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[Abavuso]

TowerHobbies.com | 3055 Novak Mongoose Crawler Micro Brushless System 18.5T

I forgot about that one, but IDE run the side winder micro first because you can run 4s loop on them if I remember corectly.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[ekd]

You have way too many gears there. The only two that affect ratio is the pinion attached to the motor and the final gear. Everything else simply stretches the distance and reverses the rotation.
80:1 would need some co-axial mounted gears (look inside the Mad Torque trans) to step down the ratio. The MT gearbox is 40:1 for reference. To make it 80:1 you would either need to use 1/2 the teeth on the pinion, double the teeth on any large gear, or spread the number of teeth along the gearbox.

A planetary gearbox would be a great idea, and I think I saw a 540 size motor planetary gearbox on pololu that might work (of course with a better 540 motor)
There are some 380 size gear motors as well we can look at.

The drill I showed has a 540. Most small drills do. They were 27T in this case.

If you add 1 more 48/12 coax MT gear to the stock setup, you get 160:1. Double the stock pinion size, and you are at 80:1. This is my current favorite possibility for smaller motors.

I'm enjoying the brainstorm here... a lot.

Edit: the 48 is the final drive gear... the 42 intermediate gear would be easier to incorporate, but the point remains.