How can i make my steering sharper?

[Hi-Po Stomper]

Hey guys im havin trouble with my steering, my turning radius is very short and it is horrible. Anyone know something i can do to let my steering provide more for me? Thanks guys aheead of time.
-Chris

 

[sac-town-savage]

What rig are you running? I made my own drag link with a bend to get around the front of the axle housing and also did a little grinding on the stub shaft dog bone area use the search and you will find a lot of good info."thumbsup"

 

[Hi-Po Stomper]

that sounds like a lot, but yeah i gotta work on it! heres my rig

 

[austexjg]

Steering with just front wheels?

 

[Hi-Po Stomper]

Steering with just front wheels?

yeah just front wheels:evil:

 

[Shayne82609]

yeah just front wheels:evil:

If that's an Axial based rig, or some other similar shaft driven, you need to look at your steering linkage. Stock setup is "ok" but not great.

Make sure your servo is moving things as far as they go. If not, look at your transmitter, make sure the end point adjustments are maxed out. If they look ok, maybe you need a longer servo horn (longer lever = more movement).

If all is good on that end, then it gets kinda technical from there.

Step one would be to check your Ackermann. From above looking down, steer it as far as it will go. The outside tire is most likely turned in farther than the inside one. This doesn't work well as the outer tire is trying to turn on a smaller circle than the inner one. To work correctly the inner tire should be turned at a slightly sharper angle than the outer tire. At worst they need to be at the same angle.

One cure for the Ackermann issue is Behind the Axle steering (BTA). This basically reverses everything. It will also give you a better approach angle as a added bonus.

Once your Ackermann is setting right, then there are ways to increase the total available movement without binding or hitting something. Grinding the drive cups back a bit can help alot. There are a number of threads on here that cover this in detail. (Links guys???)

You can also cut the knuckle arm back a bit to keep it from contacting the lower link bracket on the axle. I dont recommend this if you still have plastic knuckles. Aluminum knuckles would be a great start here, but I really recommend the high steer knuckles from CKRC. They also work great on a BTA setup.

Take some pics of your rig from above looking down while its steered fully by the servo, and both directions.

Lets see what you have to work with.

 

[John82601]

Some good info here:

http://www.rccrawler.com/axialcompbuild.html

and here:

http://www.rccrawler.com/strongsteering.html

and Search is your friend"thumbsup"

 

[Hi-Po Stomper]

thank you guys so much, this is very appreciated, so heres the pics(crappy phone camera) but you get an idea im sure. and yes it is AXial based"thumbsup" so much info im drowning:shock: and thanks for the future tips, your guys rock8)

 

[Hi-Po Stomper]

 

[Shayne82609]

Looks like typical Axial steering. Good to get you started. But not the best.

In my opinion, you should start with this kit from CKRC (or one similar).

http://www.ckrccrawlers.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=24_50&products_id=1478

As well as a axle mounted battery tray. This moves more weight up to that axle, allowing it more traction to steer with, as well as other benefits.

Also, make sure to pick up a long aluminum servo horn for the steering servo. It needs to be about at long as the knuckles are from the pivot to the tie rod mounting hole (1:1 servo - knuckle ratio).

Hope this helps!

 

[John82601]

The pics help a lot. It looks like you're getting about all the stock knuckles will give ya. Just the victim of two locked differentials. Adding the BTA kit will give you a tighter turning radius by fixing your ackerman but otherwise there isn't much more to gain.

 

[aj6502]

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158233

I'm running this four link BTA kit from jetboat. It works great!"thumbsup" I have Hot Racing aluminum knuckles, but I would use the CKRC ones Shayne82609 and John82601 use. We all run together. Those two know their way around the axial steering setup."thumbsup"

 

[Hi-Po Stomper]

thanks everyone! gave me a big choice on what im gonna do and ill be doin my research now and orderin some parts! again thanks to you all, fueling my addiction:twisted:

 

[oldhippie]

When ya start turning sharper the axle joints will bind. Then when ya get cvs, they will break. Spend your time and money on a dig and don't worry about steering angle.

 

[Shayne82609]

When ya start turning sharper the axle joints will bind. Then when ya get cvs, they will break. Spend your time and money on a dig and don't worry about steering angle.

I will agree that forcing the total steering angle too far has its own problems, but how much more affective is a dig if the steering angles are correct?

Dig also adds a whole new level of complexity, cost, and controls.

 

[Rocks R. Good]

I'm with Oldhippie, dig it man"thumbsup"

 

[gunnar]

You can get more steering but it will involve some changes you might not want to do, it depends on how much angle you want, and how much you want to spend. Your first problem is the servo is mounted too far forward. you'll have to get a mount that moves it back further. Then get some CKRC knuckles. They not only move the tierod in closer to protect it, they also give more steering room, but only if the servo is moved back. The hardest part will be to inboard the front shocks. I don't think you can do that with your chassis, though. If you can move the upper shock mount inside of the frame, then it's possible. You will need a 5/16" or 8mm spacer to take up the space in between the mounting tabs on the axle when the lower shock eye is moved inside of the inner tab on the axle. The spacer goes on the outside, lower link end next to it, and the shock goes on the inner side of the tab. That will give you the room to get 40+ degrees of angle, without hitting anything. Then go to home depot and get a 90 degree countersink bit 1/2" diameter size. Use that to make the angle on the axle cup larger, and clean up the now sharp edge of the cup, but do not remove too much of the edge, if you grind down too far, the slot will get too small, and the pin on the dogbone will slip out of the slot and bind. Doing that will net you around 42 degrees of steering angle on the axle. You might have to make up some new steering links to fit everything up.

Below are some pics expaining what I am talking about.

This shows the spacers and link and shock positions to inboard the shocks. You can also see how close the white tierod is tucked in:

Moving the shocks inboard gives you room to turn:

This is what 42 degrees of steering looks like. My tierod is alittle too short, so it has too much ackermann angle, but it's not hurting the steering very much:

When the shocks are inboarded, you will have to limit them alittle bit, and run slightly heavier shock oil, that will get the shocks back to how they worked before.

 

[boostedg60rado]

get a dig unit and be done with it. It is a must have never mind the fact it will help you in the long run on the rocks also.

 

[mascman]

Just wanted to point out that the BTA steering won't work for saddle packs.

Don't know what kind of battery set up you have, but something to keep in mind.

The top Axial steering link seemed to hurt my steering. It would only go so far in the one direction and you ran out of steering throw.

To check for this, move your steering all the way to your right while your are facing the front of your truck...if the tire steers all the way out and then starts to turn back in, you need a longer arm.

I replaced mine with a longer arm, which is pointing to the passenger side tire...this gives me full throw in both directions.

A little tip...A BIC pen body will fit over the stock steering rod and will not hang up on rocks as bad as the aluminum one. It will slide and spin instead.

 

[mascman]

Oh yeah...dig will be a must have if you want to compete!