How do I make a Pan Hard Bar

[Tommy R]

That would be fine for bumpsteer, but they need to be as level as possible when the rig is at ride height. Of course thats not always possible, but the closer the better. "thumbsup"

Good point! Yes, you want both as parallel as possible at ride height, but when looking at all your angles/links, focus on the pivot point locations moreso than the angles of the actual links. You want the imaginary lines connecting these locations to be parallel to one another to help reduce bumpsteer.

 

[dirk379]

Axle sway is important too. An ideal setup would be- Mounts at the left frame rail, ends underneith the right frame rail on the axle. This makes sure that from the center of the rig, it is even in length on each side. Hard to explain in words, if done correctly, when you compress your suspension, the rig or axle won't move side to side as the suspension cycles.

Here pic of my truck. Hope it helps.

See how your pan hard is more on the left side of the truck than centered?

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Axle sway is important too. An ideal setup would be- Mounts at the left frame rail, ends underneith the right frame rail on the axle. This makes sure that from the center of the rig, it is even in length on each side. Hard to explain in words, if done correctly, when you compress your suspension, the rig or axle won't move side to side as the suspension cycles.


See how your pan hard is more on the left side of the truck than centered?

That depends on the width of the frame. Ideally you want the bar as long as possible to keep sway at a minimum. If your frame was 2" wide and mine was 4" wide, and we both had our bars mounted in the same places (in line with the frame on both ends), I'd have less sway.

 

[El Matador]

Bump steer sucks in a fast rig. So if you are going flat out all of a sudden you hit a pebble and you rig shots right or left. Those links must be parallel and same length. As far as angles remerber we are talking 1:10 scale trucks that are running 1:1 tires of 45-50" so it impossible to run it level.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

As far as angles remerber we are talking 1:10 scale trucks that are running 1:1 tires of 45-50" so it impossible to run it level.

Impossible?

This is mine with the suspension fully compressed. Both the steering and panhard bars are parallel.

And the rear, also compressed.

 

[dirk379]

That depends on the width of the frame. Ideally you want the bar as long as possible to keep sway at a minimum. If your frame was 2" wide and mine was 4" wide, and we both had our bars mounted in the same places (in line with the frame on both ends), I'd have less sway.

Of course, thank you for clearing that up a bit. The frame description was just a point of reference. I only said it that way because the mounting positions seemed over looked, and they are important in order to get no sway."thumbsup"

 

[War Pig]

As far as angles remerber we are talking 1:10 scale trucks that are running 1:1 tires of 45-50" so it impossible to run it level.

My rear panhard is level, does it count? :mrgreen:.

 

[rckjeep]

Panhard bars are not just limited to 3-link suspensions, if you have a 4-link with no (or inadequate) triangulation you need to use one to keep your axle located. An OEM example of a 4-link w/panhard bar is the Kyosho 4Runner.

That is true, but I figured most RC's have at least 2 triangulated links. Which is why I didn't mention it.

That would be fine for bumpsteer, but they need to be as level as possible when the rig is at ride height. Of course thats not always possible, but the closer the better. "thumbsup"

Remember, It's beneficial to use a Panhard that is a turnbuckle, meaning having both left & right handed threads. So when you turn the center bar it either lengthens the panhard or shortens it. This will allow you to center the axle under the rig. It's much easier to use a turnbuckle, then it is to disassemble it to add a shim or remove material.

My rear panhard is level, does it count? :mrgreen:.

Nope only because your rig is way off the cool charts and can't work great too, that's just unfair.

 

[Oliver]

Panhard

Here´s my Unimog 5000 rear axle.
I´ve tried to copy the original Unimog Panhard

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260562

 

[ecoli]

Bringing this back from the dead. Working on a panhard bar set-up for Pink right now. I found with the panhard I'm getting a fair bit of axle sway towards the drivers side. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but wanted to confirm.

Here's basically how it's set-up currently (looking at it from the front).



The blue line being the center of the panhard. I'm fairly certain in reading through this thread and thinking about how it pivots, the cause of the sway is the panhard being drivers side biased. Am I completely out to lunch in my thinking?

Funny, as all the other panhard set-ups I've done have been Hand Bros set-ups, so no real thought into how it worked, it just worked :mrgreen:

 

[Tommy R]

Well, it's not really the lateral bias of the track bar causing the problem. It's the angle of the bar that is your issue. If you can get the bar level (i.e. the mounting points even in height relative to one another), then the bulk of your axle swing will go away.

Got an actual pic of the truck's suspension to show us?

 

[neillarson]

The key is for your Panhard bar and your steering bar to be dead parallel and it is best if they are as close to the same plane as possible.

 

[team3six]

DMG makes a truss that also incorperates the use of a panhard.

 

[Grizzly4x4]

Bringing this back from the dead. Working on a panhard bar set-up for Pink right now. I found with the panhard I'm getting a fair bit of axle sway towards the drivers side. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but wanted to confirm.

Here's basically how it's set-up currently (looking at it from the front).

View attachment 159262

The blue line being the center of the panhard. I'm fairly certain in reading through this thread and thinking about how it pivots, the cause of the sway is the panhard being drivers side biased. Am I completely out to lunch in my thinking?

Funny, as all the other panhard set-ups I've done have been Hand Bros set-ups, so no real thought into how it worked, it just worked :mrgreen:

Is your suspension set up for pretty much all compression? If so drop the chassis side mount down until it is almost flat but not quite. Longer is always better to reduce sway as well so if you can make it stick out to the left more that will help.

imo, with a non-steer axle a flat panhard at ride height is best when you have some uptravel and some down travel. The best setup will have the panhard become flat midway through the travel with equal, but opposite, amounts of angle at full compression and full extension.

With a steering axle it is most important to be equal length and angle to the drag link. Of course flatter is better if you can.

Guido has a lot of front axle sway because the panhard is shorter than the drag link. However that is because of limitations of space. Reducing suspension travel can help a setup like this. My next rig will be designed around the suspension/steering instead of trying to fit the suspension/steering to the chassis.

 

[ecoli]

Well, it's not really the lateral bias of the track bar causing the problem. It's the angle of the bar that is your issue. If you can get the bar level (i.e. the mounting points even in height relative to one another), then the bulk of your axle swing will go away.

Got an actual pic of the truck's suspension to show us?

Hmm, ok. It's probably not quite at that angle, that's just the awesomeness of my Paint skills :mrgreen: Will try and snap a pic tonight after I modify it some more.

The key is for your Panhard bar and your steering bar to be dead parallel and it is best if they are as close to the same plane as possible.

Yep, got the parallel, not quite in the same plane though. Raising the axle end of the panhard should help with that though.

DMG makes a truss that also incorperates the use of a panhard.

Not enough room on this rig, although I've seen it and love it "thumbsup"

Is your suspension set up for pretty much all compression? If so drop the chassis side mount down until it is almost flat but not quite. Longer is always better to reduce sway as well so if you can make it stick out to the left more that will help.

imo, with a non-steer axle a flat panhard at ride height is best when you have some uptravel and some down travel. The best setup will have the panhard become flat midway through the travel with equal, but opposite, amounts of angle at full compression and full extension.

With a steering axle it is most important to be equal length and angle to the drag link. Of course flatter is better if you can.

Guido has a lot of front axle sway because the panhard is shorter than the drag link. However that is because of limitations of space. Reducing suspension travel can help a setup like this. My next rig will be designed around the suspension/steering instead of trying to fit the suspension/steering to the chassis.

Good stuff here, thanks Chris. Yeah, suspension is all compression. I really should play around with it more. Would likely help even further with stability if the shocks were slightly compressed at rest.

The panhard link is definitely longer than the drag link. I set it up bta and had to go with a short mid-mounted drag link to clear the chassis at full compression.

Real pain in the ass all around, but it was the only way to set up the steering, and it does work. The biggest problem was the amount of bump steer/axle sway I was getting with the lack of a panhard set-up.

So, will extend the panhard further out and lower on the passenger side to center it more, and raise the axle mounted end to make it a little more level "thumbsup"

 

[darkstar06109]

Wow I am glad I stumbled across this thred I am working on a my rig right now and this is a great help. I was wondering what you guys are using to make a panhard mount on the frame and how beefy it should be, not sure how much stress this bar is under while crawlin seeing how it locates the axle

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

TLT brackets work good and are easy to install, or you can find aluminum c channel at the hardware store that rod ends fit nicely into.

 

[bayareaaxial]

has to be one of the most helpful threads I was planning on building one for my leafed yota and this helps a ton.

 

[darkstar06109]

I was planning on brazing them onto the frame are tlt brackets made of steel or aluminum? Sorry I am kinda new at this and have no knowledge of tamiya stuff all I have ever owned has been traxxas and axial

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

They are steel.