skinnyj
Pebble Pounder
I'm with the more body options crowd. I would have got the Bronco in a kit if it was available.
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- Thread starter Rich Trujillo
- Start date
More good stuff guys. I'll address a couple things that i can as well as some things to consider.
1. Portals: Not going to happen as long as I'm running the project
2. Body options: This is a huge challenge. I always get tons of suggestions for bodies and how everyone will buy them. The catch here is that i don't have an unlimited budget to make bodies. Keep in mind besides the body tool, there are other molds, designer fees etc. Then there are the licensing fees. We have minimum guarantees and plus a percentage of each sale. Trust me, there are so many different bodies i'd love to do but again i have a budget to answer too. There is a reason why Horizon Hobby is solid right now and not in a situation like Hobbico.:shock:
3. Builder kit only: This is another one i would love to do but as suggested removing the tires, body and wheels would not reduce the kit by $120 and or get to a price point suggested. On top of that, (and unfortunately) almost all sales are RTR's. When the SCX-10 first came out, I would guess and have been told that kit sales were more than 2:1 kits to RTR. Since then i know that trend has changed. Justifying the labor involved in packing kits, in addition to stocking kits that are only now a small percentage of sales and market could be a tuff sell to the bean counters. That being said, I still think there is an opportunity to do a builders kit but it may not be as cheap as suggested...What price would be (feel free to comment below).
One last thing to consider, you all and I have a passion for this category but unfortunately the amount of consumers that share this passion like we have is still very small compared to the entire market. It's the fine balance we/I have to work with. I'm not trying to short cut anyone nor disregard any of your suggestions, i just have to pick and choose what can be done that not only makes you guys happy, but also the consumer and my boss
Keep the feedback coming, its appreciated.
Rich
1. Portals: Not going to happen as long as I'm running the project
2. Body options: This is a huge challenge. I always get tons of suggestions for bodies and how everyone will buy them. The catch here is that i don't have an unlimited budget to make bodies. Keep in mind besides the body tool, there are other molds, designer fees etc. Then there are the licensing fees. We have minimum guarantees and plus a percentage of each sale. Trust me, there are so many different bodies i'd love to do but again i have a budget to answer too. There is a reason why Horizon Hobby is solid right now and not in a situation like Hobbico.:shock:
3. Builder kit only: This is another one i would love to do but as suggested removing the tires, body and wheels would not reduce the kit by $120 and or get to a price point suggested. On top of that, (and unfortunately) almost all sales are RTR's. When the SCX-10 first came out, I would guess and have been told that kit sales were more than 2:1 kits to RTR. Since then i know that trend has changed. Justifying the labor involved in packing kits, in addition to stocking kits that are only now a small percentage of sales and market could be a tuff sell to the bean counters. That being said, I still think there is an opportunity to do a builders kit but it may not be as cheap as suggested...What price would be (feel free to comment below).
One last thing to consider, you all and I have a passion for this category but unfortunately the amount of consumers that share this passion like we have is still very small compared to the entire market. It's the fine balance we/I have to work with. I'm not trying to short cut anyone nor disregard any of your suggestions, i just have to pick and choose what can be done that not only makes you guys happy, but also the consumer and my boss
Keep the feedback coming, its appreciated.
Rich
More good stuff guys. I'll address a couple things that i can as well as some things to consider.
1. Portals: Not going to happen as long as I'm running the project
2. Body options: This is a huge challenge. I always get tons of suggestions for bodies and how everyone will buy them. The catch here is that i don't have an unlimited budget to make bodies. Keep in mind besides the body tool, there are other molds, designer fees etc. Then there are the licensing fees. We have minimum guarantees and plus a percentage of each sale. Trust me, there are so many different bodies i'd love to do but again i have a budget to answer too. There is a reason why Horizon Hobby is solid right now and not in a situation like Hobbico.:shock:
3. Builder kit only: This is another one i would love to do but as suggested removing the tires, body and wheels would not reduce the kit by $120 and or get to a price point suggested. On top of that, (and unfortunately) almost all sales are RTR's. When the SCX-10 first came out, I would guess and have been told that kit sales were more than 2:1 kits to RTR. Since then i know that trend has changed. Justifying the labor involved in packing kits, in addition to stocking kits that are only now a small percentage of sales and market could be a tuff sell to the bean counters. That being said, I still think there is an opportunity to do a builders kit but it may not be as cheap as suggested...What price would be (feel free to comment below).
One last thing to consider, you all and I have a passion for this category but unfortunately the amount of consumers that share this passion like we have is still very small compared to the entire market. It's the fine balance we/I have to work with. I'm not trying to short cut anyone nor disregard any of your suggestions, i just have to pick and choose what can be done that not only makes you guys happy, but also the consumer and my boss
Keep the feedback coming, its appreciated.
Rich
I already did the portals for you Rich! "thumbsup"
Hi Rich, glad you are showing interest in the feedback.
I am very pleased with both the Ascenders I have and no major problems so far. The only thing I would like to see is more adjustments on shock mounting. Perhaps the upper mounts with ability to move up/down, even left right a small amount. Possibly a clamp on or bolt on lower mount as well so adjustments could be made there.
Most of the rest is good, but as everyone says the Ascender is somewhat outclassed by recent new arrivals. The original would be a good base, just improvements here and there.
A builders kit seems such a good idea as I still have an unused K5 body, bumpers, and wheels in the box from my first build. Perhaps a bit lower price than RTR/ARTR would work for some. Even no body would be a start for a few people.
I am very pleased with both the Ascenders I have and no major problems so far. The only thing I would like to see is more adjustments on shock mounting. Perhaps the upper mounts with ability to move up/down, even left right a small amount. Possibly a clamp on or bolt on lower mount as well so adjustments could be made there.
Most of the rest is good, but as everyone says the Ascender is somewhat outclassed by recent new arrivals. The original would be a good base, just improvements here and there.
A builders kit seems such a good idea as I still have an unused K5 body, bumpers, and wheels in the box from my first build. Perhaps a bit lower price than RTR/ARTR would work for some. Even no body would be a start for a few people.
My LHS sells the blazer kit for $289. The body sells for $70 by itself, and the chrome wheels and tires another $40. So that's how I got to my $200 figure.
IMO the blazer, while it looks cool, and certainly has some nostalgic appeal for many, is just not a competitive crawler with so much overhang. So I think that most that really get into it put something else on it that has better ramp and departure angles, and something that uniquely appeals to them personally. And hence a kit without those things so the builder could do it up how he likes. Everybody has their own taste in wheels too - but a glue-on plastic wheel just doesn't cut it today. That's the FIRST thing everybody replaces on the RTR's.
I totally get the RTR vs kit thing - I bought a RTR first so I could take it out of the box and play with it. I had so much fun I bought a kit. But I spent as much as I did on the kit for the rest of the stuff to build it, but everything was upgraded from RTR levels so it was worth it. And I totally get that this is a pretty narrow segment of the hobby/sport/industry, so no unrealistic expectations. Plus I think all this stuff is a little spendy for the average teenager that might happen into the hobby whereas a lot of crawler fanatics are more mature types with some disposable income to blow on it. So I understand the entry-level RTR box at a very competitive price point. When I was a kid you could buy a brand new mini-bike for a few hundred bucks. ;-)
Frankly I'm shocked with the volumes of stuff that comes out of china for these rigs, although so much of it is untrustworthy that you just never know what you're really going to get. I think everybody likes a domestic company that puts together stuff that actually works and stands behind it. Means a lot to the average buyer IMO.
My LHS also are Vaterra fanatics and showed me on the two models what the differences were - like metal sockets for suspension links, transmission gears, the floating battery tray unique to the Ascender, and etc. They were most appalled that someone buying a SCX10 had to go source basic parts to bring it on par with an Ascender. Plus it starts out at a higher price point. So even though the newest versions from Axial have those updates included, that kit vs RTR attitude has left its mark.
IMO the blazer, while it looks cool, and certainly has some nostalgic appeal for many, is just not a competitive crawler with so much overhang. So I think that most that really get into it put something else on it that has better ramp and departure angles, and something that uniquely appeals to them personally. And hence a kit without those things so the builder could do it up how he likes. Everybody has their own taste in wheels too - but a glue-on plastic wheel just doesn't cut it today. That's the FIRST thing everybody replaces on the RTR's.
I totally get the RTR vs kit thing - I bought a RTR first so I could take it out of the box and play with it. I had so much fun I bought a kit. But I spent as much as I did on the kit for the rest of the stuff to build it, but everything was upgraded from RTR levels so it was worth it. And I totally get that this is a pretty narrow segment of the hobby/sport/industry, so no unrealistic expectations. Plus I think all this stuff is a little spendy for the average teenager that might happen into the hobby whereas a lot of crawler fanatics are more mature types with some disposable income to blow on it. So I understand the entry-level RTR box at a very competitive price point. When I was a kid you could buy a brand new mini-bike for a few hundred bucks. ;-)
Frankly I'm shocked with the volumes of stuff that comes out of china for these rigs, although so much of it is untrustworthy that you just never know what you're really going to get. I think everybody likes a domestic company that puts together stuff that actually works and stands behind it. Means a lot to the average buyer IMO.
My LHS also are Vaterra fanatics and showed me on the two models what the differences were - like metal sockets for suspension links, transmission gears, the floating battery tray unique to the Ascender, and etc. They were most appalled that someone buying a SCX10 had to go source basic parts to bring it on par with an Ascender. Plus it starts out at a higher price point. So even though the newest versions from Axial have those updates included, that kit vs RTR attitude has left its mark.
OSRC
I wanna be Dave
Great info and insight Rich, glad you take the time to come on the forum and impart some wisdom.
Only thing I'd like to see is a front motor/t-case setup. Either as an add on or a V2 type truck. Mold an interior for that new Ford body and you've got a hell of a truck.
Only thing I'd like to see is a front motor/t-case setup. Either as an add on or a V2 type truck. Mold an interior for that new Ford body and you've got a hell of a truck.
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
Maybe some poll threads would be helpful? I'll see what I can do.
I like the bodies Vaterra offers, though I would prefer them to have better details. Maybe offer beds for the Chevy & Ford cabs.
I’d buy a 2.0 in a heartbeat if it came with the forward motor/trans. Even more so if I could drop the Killerbody LC70 on to it, like they were made for each other.
I’d buy a 2.0 in a heartbeat if it came with the forward motor/trans. Even more so if I could drop the Killerbody LC70 on to it, like they were made for each other.
skinnyj
Pebble Pounder
When I got my Ascender kit at my LHS, it had to be ordered. They did not have any kits in stock. They had a plethora of Traxxas and Red Cat RTR stuff and they were even trying to get me to bite on a Red Cat RTR after I told them the TRX-4 was out of my budget. The point to this ramble is: shops want to move what is on their shelves instead of bringing stuff in special. Right now, it seems like RTRs are the "movers".
I started this hobby in the 80s, when hobby-grade was always a kit and a RTR was likely to be a toy. I guess I'm just stuck in my ways. I do like the building part, too.
More good stuff guys. I'll address a couple things that i can as well as some things to consider.
1. Portals: Not going to happen as long as I'm running the project
2. Body options: This is a huge challenge. I always get tons of suggestions for bodies and how everyone will buy them. The catch here is that i don't have an unlimited budget to make bodies. Keep in mind besides the body tool, there are other molds, designer fees etc. Then there are the licensing fees. We have minimum guarantees and plus a percentage of each sale. Trust me, there are so many different bodies i'd love to do but again i have a budget to answer too. There is a reason why Horizon Hobby is solid right now and not in a situation like Hobbico.:shock:
3. Builder kit only: This is another one i would love to do but as suggested removing the tires, body and wheels would not reduce the kit by $120 and or get to a price point suggested. On top of that, (and unfortunately) almost all sales are RTR's. When the SCX-10 first came out, I would guess and have been told that kit sales were more than 2:1 kits to RTR. Since then i know that trend has changed. Justifying the labor involved in packing kits, in addition to stocking kits that are only now a small percentage of sales and market could be a tuff sell to the bean counters. That being said, I still think there is an opportunity to do a builders kit but it may not be as cheap as suggested...What price would be (feel free to comment below).
One last thing to consider, you all and I have a passion for this category but unfortunately the amount of consumers that share this passion like we have is still very small compared to the entire market. It's the fine balance we/I have to work with. I'm not trying to short cut anyone nor disregard any of your suggestions, i just have to pick and choose what can be done that not only makes you guys happy, but also the consumer and my boss
Keep the feedback coming, its appreciated.
Rich
1. Awesome! Portals don't belong on an Ascender.
2. People don't realize how extraordinarily expensive molds are. I love the current Blazer body and I'd be happy if that was used in the next kit/RTR. A 69 Blazer body is my dream body though.
3. A kit is a must for me and a lot of other diehards in this niche. I am well aware that RTRs dominate sales though.
4. I want the same Ascender with better gearing/less torque twist in the axles. That's all I need. Even if you offered this as an upgrade kit I'd be happy. But if you are doing an Ascender 2 I would love a front motor with attached trans and divorced transfer case setup. HPI has a nice setup.
i just died a little when i stumbled across the thread with the new 3 Racing crawler in it...
forward motor with scale TWO SPEED TRANS. (and for under $200 as a roller kit?!)
both features i would LOVE to see on ascender 2.0! i could give a poop about adjustable front camber on a solid axle truck, and the rest of the 3 racing rig looks... meh, at best. but WE NEED FWD MOUNT MOTOR!
(and optional leafs parts kit?) and totally agree with Jato on the portals. but that's just my opinion.
i totally get it about bodies though. and interiors would be equally challenging if not more so. but it would be nice
forward motor with scale TWO SPEED TRANS. (and for under $200 as a roller kit?!)
both features i would LOVE to see on ascender 2.0! i could give a poop about adjustable front camber on a solid axle truck, and the rest of the 3 racing rig looks... meh, at best. but WE NEED FWD MOUNT MOTOR!
(and optional leafs parts kit?) and totally agree with Jato on the portals. but that's just my opinion.
i totally get it about bodies though. and interiors would be equally challenging if not more so. but it would be nice
AngelowDoom
Rock Crawler
I think the Ascender kit sales would benefit from another body option. The K5 is not the most popular due to its huge size with big overhang both in the front and rear.
I'm sure the Ford truggy, Chevy truggy or even the bronco would be much more popular than the K5 kit.
I only consider rtr if kit is not available, as I like to paint body myself, and a rtr would require for me to buy new body. And when I always change electronics on rtr, the price of the truck becomes unnecessary steep when I need to buy new body as well.
But perhaps with the good body options that is out there now, you could consider a bodyless option.
I'm sure the Ford truggy, Chevy truggy or even the bronco would be much more popular than the K5 kit.
I only consider rtr if kit is not available, as I like to paint body myself, and a rtr would require for me to buy new body. And when I always change electronics on rtr, the price of the truck becomes unnecessary steep when I need to buy new body as well.
But perhaps with the good body options that is out there now, you could consider a bodyless option.
steven318is
Quarry Creeper
Id agree with a some form of a forward motor set up to start with and adjustable shock mounts would be nice upgrades, axle link mounts could be made more robust either a add on piece or molded in. and a sway bar would top it off for good measure"thumbsup"
snowman13
Rock Stacker
I love my ascender. With the competitive market in the scalers right now I’d say you would have to come up with a game changer like traxxas did with the Trx. Yeah it’s based on steel channel designs with a four link suspension...just like everyone else. It was the little things that made it unique. If you could come up with a innovative and original new platform or addition to what we have now (steel channel frame, 4 link) I don’t think it will be enough of a difference for the investment to pull someone away from say a hpi venture or scx10ii. For me to buy my ascender it was a loyalty thing, I had a hammers and loved what I got to do with that platform to make it mine. Pair that up with the ascender being a solid base gave it a lot of flexibility for when I get bored with the bronco body. So I’d say figure out what game changer would set it apart from all the others in the field.
8)I already did the portals for you Rich! "thumbsup"
THose are a thing of beauty. You never cease to amaze Ernie
I love the body options(and half body options) Vaterra has released for the Ascender thus far.
It would be great if the torque twist issue could be somehow addressed through the diffs in a way that could be applied to the existing Ascender as well. I don’t know whether this is possible however
It would be great if the torque twist issue could be somehow addressed through the diffs in a way that could be applied to the existing Ascender as well. I don’t know whether this is possible however
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
Please cast your votes here for most important update to the v2.0 RTR platform: http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vaterra-ascender/594643-what-update-rtr-v2-0-most-important-you.html
...and here for how much you would be willing to pay for a kit:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vaterra-ascender/594642-how-much-would-you-pay-kit.html
...and here for how much you would be willing to pay for a kit:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vaterra-ascender/594642-how-much-would-you-pay-kit.html
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Intermission time...
After all Rich is a crawler like the rest of us on here.
Pretty sure he's not just some corporate wanker bozo that has no clue and thinks he knows what we all want, need and desire in a kick a$$ rig. I'm sure with all the ideas and input on here he'll take those and decide what can be done to keep the rig at a certain price point while still offering up a product that will have upgrades and improvements and shine just like the current rig.
Last night on YouTube I was searching for any new F-100 vids and I ran into some footage of Rich's personal rig..........Dude can drive "thumbsup"
Did a good job shooting this Rich, when time allows...make some more videos !
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SxVdGaU125E" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
After all Rich is a crawler like the rest of us on here.
Pretty sure he's not just some corporate wanker bozo that has no clue and thinks he knows what we all want, need and desire in a kick a$$ rig. I'm sure with all the ideas and input on here he'll take those and decide what can be done to keep the rig at a certain price point while still offering up a product that will have upgrades and improvements and shine just like the current rig.
Last night on YouTube I was searching for any new F-100 vids and I ran into some footage of Rich's personal rig..........Dude can drive "thumbsup"
Did a good job shooting this Rich, when time allows...make some more videos !
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SxVdGaU125E" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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