Let's talk grease!

[hypo96]

iv been using Nulon extreme performance L80 grease rang manufacturer is safe to get on plastics
or INOX MX6 with ptfe food grade machinery grease awsome stuff
i have used both for years know never had a problem

 

[mprudic0404]

DrewHammer is asking great questions and his practical experience in what he does every day is invaluable. He is absolutely correct in his comment that there as many greases out there as there are people. What everyone needs to know is how to spec the proper lube for the application and read through the marketing B.S…

So as this is my first ever posting, I will refrain from being a an old gray hair Mech. Engineer windbag…I will try to bring some valuable info into this thread based on science, experience and no B.S.!
In my everyday job I am currently formulating very high performance greases and oils for specialty markets…for everything from fishing reels to off road heavy equipment. (I will respect this forum and not disclose our company’s name at this time or make a sales pitch…just info)…we have looked at and reverse engineered many lubricants that were marketed into the cycling, fishing, motorcycling and DIY markets…and yes, we have done the same with RC lubrication products. I will not disclose our findings, as I don’t want to generate a lawsuit or catfight…but we know who is who, and what is what as far as hype and actual performance of their products.

There are a few “good guy’s” out there and my hats off to them for doing a great job…but when you have access to a state of the art lubrication analysis lab and a spectral analysis system that can reverse engineer a lube product’s elements down to one part per million…you get some really interesting data.

I am currently working in complex “soaps” and nano-technology based lubricants which brings in a whole new science into lubrication products. But will still have to buy our grease oil bases, thickeners and additives from the same companies that the “big boy’s” do…and build our grease formulations one step at a time. And anyone who markets lubrication products can either build a product for performance or for profit…you would be surprised on what goes on out there. The performance oriented products usually are 3-4 time the cost, or more, than the “off the shelf” retail grease products.

I also have to deal with many people who don’t have any knowledge of grease formulations or what is a grease…so I have taken a bunch of time and put together a “grease primer” document…I have added it to this post….sorry for the length…but it helps dispel any wrong information early on. So getting to the meat of this thread…

1. A high percentage of greases available at retail in all markets are basically repackaged formulations of what is available from lubrication formulators…there is some customization of the base product additives and packaging is the real differentiator. You really have to be a majorly large company to “cook” and formulate your own grease in house…think Mobil. Texaco, etc.
2. A single batch of grease thickener or “soap” usually runs between 10,000 and 25,000 pounds per single batch…most of the “specialty” grease companies have to buy, including mine, have to have either a great relationship with the manufacture and be able to buy smaller amounts, or know someone in the business who has an excess in the warehouse they want to sell off.
3. Everyone in the lubrication business buys their oil base, “soap” and additives from the same suppliers…it’s all how you mix them together for the intended use is the differentiator.
4. Greases are dyed many different colors and in some cases fragrances are added to mask some really awfully smelling stuff…so color has nothing to do with performance, cost, intended use, etc…its just marketing.
5. Learn how to read the grease “recipe” info on the packaging and it will help you select the correct grease for your application. If its not there , don’t buy it!

Anyway, here is the grease primer that I give out…I take no credit as to its authorship as all of this info is out on the web if you know where to look for it.


The American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) defines lubricating grease as: "A solid to semifluid product of dispersion of a thickening agent in liquid lubricant. Other ingredients imparting special properties may be included" (ASTM D 288, Standard Definitions of Terms Relating to Petroleum).

Grease Anatomy
As this definition indicates, there are three components that form lubricating grease. These components are oil, thickener and additives. The base oil and additive package are the major components in grease formulations, and as such, exert considerable influence on the behavior of the grease. The thickener is often referred to as a sponge that holds the lubricant (base oil plus additives).


Base Oil
Most greases produced today use mineral oil as their fluid components. These mineral oil-based greases typically provide satisfactory performance in most industrial applications. In temperature extremes (low or high), a grease that utilizes a synthetic base oil will provide better stability.

Thickener (called "soap" in the industry)
The thickener is a material that, in combination with the selected lubricant, will produce the solid to semifluid structure. The primary type of thickener used in current grease is metallic soap. These soaps include lithium, aluminum, clay, polyurea, sodium and calcium. Lately, complex thickener-type greases are gaining popularity. They are being selected because of their high dropping points and excellent load-carrying abilities.
Complex greases are made by combining the conventional metallic soap with a complexing agent. The most widely used complex grease is lithium based. These are made with a combination of conventional lithium soap and a low- molecular-weight organic acid as the complexing agent.
Nonsoap thickeners are also gaining popularity in special applications such as high-temperature environments. Bentonite and silica aerogel are two examples of thickeners that do not melt at high temperatures. There is a misconception, however, that even though the thickener may be able to withstand the high temperatures, the base oil will oxidize quickly at elevated temperatures, thus requiring a frequent relube interval.

Additives
Additives can play several roles in lubricating grease. These primarily include enhancing the existing desirable properties, suppressing the existing undesirable properties, and imparting new properties. The most common additives are oxidation and rust inhibitors, extreme pressure, anti-wear, and friction-reducing agents.
In addition to these additives, boundary lubricants such as molybdenum disulfide (moly) or graphite may be suspended in the grease to reduce friction and wear without adverse chemical reactions to the metal surfaces during heavy loading and slow speeds.

may i ask you a few questions , grease/lubrication related. ??

 

[sgtlt]

I use some called Phil waterproof grease, it's for bicycles, it's green,lol

 

[mprudic0404]

anyone ever figure out what type/make-up is MUGEN PREMIUM grease? i am guessing its a anti-seize paste, with fluroine or ptfe? moly-kote brand? the stuff is quite costly, but works very well. some of the molyK's are hundreds and even 1000's of dollars for a small tube. which is quite crazy considering just how small they are, but i can say, the upper tiers of magic greases are quite amazing. At a old job, we had a grease that worked at super cold temps, as in 4.2-kelvin. (was a japan special, cryogentic grease)

on same idea, anyone ever have TAMIA AW grease tested? theirs a few rc websites were people say its just a antiseize paste, but i am pretty sure its got some tamiya in house additives. (its NOT a 00 rated grease, but web searches might lead you to think so) when i was a kid, and had a job working on superchargers , we used somthing like the tamiyaAW grease, but ours was(shop i worked at) a custom additive blend, as nitro methane washed away almost everything it touched including the hard coating on the rotors.

 

[mprudic0404]

to everyone who uses green slime on your shocks and such. have you ever tried DOW CORNING vacuume grease? (this grease is made FOR o-rings and seals)

 

[Stomp]

I use Maxima Waterproof Blue Grease, only because I use it on my enduro motorcycles and my trials motorcycles. It seems to work well on RC stuff as well.

Here is a review of it by mountain bikers.

https://www.maximausa.com/pdf/BIKE Product Reviews Waterproof Grease MTBMAG.pdf

Here is what Maxima has to say about it:

WATERPROOF GREASE is a smooth, E.P. Lithium complex multi-purpose grease manufactured in a NLGI #2 consistency- with the added benefits of a high density polymer to provide optimum service under most ambient temperature conditions. This distinctive multi-functional lubricating grease has very good mechanical stability (won’t thin out under normal usage), has excellent resistance to water wash out, clings to metal surfaces under severe conditions as it effectively reduces the coefficient of friction. Fortified with non leaded extreme pressure additives for high load carrying ability and extra protection under shock loading conditions. Rust & corrosion inhibitors provide a further margin of superior performance and protection under a wide variety of adverse operating conditions.

And a review of it by mountain bikers.

https://www.maximausa.com/pdf/BIKE Product Reviews Waterproof Grease MTBMAG.pdf

 

[mprudic0404]

"has excellent resistance to water wash out"


its a bit odd that the cover says WATERPROOF, but this is the description.

no doubt its good grease, but does make one wonder why they say this.

Ive tried many greases for bikes, (including motorcycles) and found they are quite high quality.
its amazing how die hard some are about their greases, (refering to bike fourms) and the pro"s &con"s of each.
it seems to me, about half prefer a dry type, and the other half prefer paste/solid greases.

ill look into this stuff, see if i can get some testing data. (always a fan of greases)

you ever try the dry stuff? (dry grease/lube)

T9 is really great stuff, (considering it was a private company devlopment- boeing) but takes some time to dry.

MO off is great, but dosent seem to handle high temps.

dupont stuff, a oddball of the bunch. sticks to almost everything, lasts very long, and is hard to remove after it dries. it handles heat better than mo-off, but not much more. (300-350f) i've found that layers or coats of the stuff, can waterproof almost anything. it also seems to handle well and keep stable in sunlight, over time.


still want to know about MUGEN premium grease, and i fear i may never know. that grease is stable, even when used in submerged water tanks. quite hard to remove with most chemicals, and really lasts no matter what you subject it to. (i havent tried to do a burn test yet, but considering it seems to have such high solids, would it help?) anyone here able to help?

ps: see pics for some excellent dry lubes. (imo)

 

[Stomp]

"has excellent resistance to water wash out"


its a bit odd that the cover says WATERPROOF, but this is the description.

no doubt its good grease, but does make one wonder why they say this?

What they are referring to is that the grease will not wash out when water hits it at speed. Many types of waterproof grease will wash out when hit by water at high speeds. An example is when I used to race enduros and you hit a puddle of water going 60+mph. The Maxima tends to stay put better then other waterproof grease I have used. For instance a rock is waterproof, but you can wash it off your driveway with a hose with some pressure. Grease acts the same way as it has a tendency to flow when hit by pressurized water.

 

[Stomp]

I will have to look into the T-9. Sounds interesting. What parts are you using the dry lubes on? Do you use them on gears and bearings? Also if you are interested in trying the Maxima, I could send you a some to try. Maybe we could trade samples, I would be interested in trying the T9.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

I've been using marine grease. But I'm trying something different on my Rock Rey build with Vanquish Products Gear Grease Rock Lube. Somebody on this forum mentioned that it stayed on better than red and tacky grease and was also less sticky. I'm all for that because red and tacky and marine grease are too tacky for RC. It creates too much drag for my liking.

https://www.vanquishproducts.com/rc-gear-grease-rock-lube/

 

[mprudic0404]

What they are referring to is that the grease will not wash out when water hits it at speed. Many types of waterproof grease will wash out when hit by water at high speeds. An example is when I used to race enduros and you hit a puddle of water going 60+mph. The Maxima tends to stay put better then other waterproof grease I have used. For instance a rock is waterproof, but you can wash it off your driveway with a hose with some pressure. Grease acts the same way as it has a tendency to flow when hit by pressurized water.

i like this, nice!!

 

[Joshs4x4toyz]

Ive always used Lubriplate 105 on my rc's. Ive built a handful of small blocks and a few 7-1100HP cummins with this as assembly lube. I have piles of it and figured heck why not:lmao: Hasnt given me issues and two of these motors were back up and sat for almost a year before being used. It stays where it needs to for a VERY long time and doesnt break down. Cheap and works great on all my stuff.

 

[Inspector86]

I have been using Fluid Film on the driveshaft U-joints/slides and also on the steering knuckle joints. I use JD SD Polyurea for all gear applications.

 

[felixperez]

I use Honda Moly 60 Paste on the gears of my Bully 65:1 axles. It's consistency is very thick; I apply a light coat with a soldering flux brush.

I originally purchased to use on the splines of my BMW 1200GS and was impressed with the results. After 5k miles, the grease was still intact on the splines and not flung around in the housing.

It does say on the packing not to use on plastic, as it erodes plastic, but my gear boxes are all metal, so if you do try it, beware.

I use it on my Pellet rifles, specially springers or break barrels. Might work if you have all alloy axles. By the way doesn't breakdown

 

[felixperez]

Ok, I looked around a little bit and I didn't see a thread for this. There are as many kinds of grease as there are people in the world, some very good, some not so much. I'd like to get a discussion thread on this going.

It appears as though most are using a marine grade grease due to it being somewhat water proof although this may not be the best kind of grease out there for the application.

To my knowlege there are a handfull of methodologies behind grease depending on who manufactures it. It consistes of a pressure additive (lithium, molybdenum, or something else I don't know of) a thickener (polyurea, bentonite, or soaps) and mineral oils.

The industry I work is in very involved with lubrication of industrial equipment. If a gear reducer has brass gears in it we must ensure we utilize lubricants specifically tailored towards brass. If it's open we must use an open gear grease and bearing grease depends on manufacturer. My personal role with the company is in failure root cause analysis and remanufacturing. I inspect about 30 bearings daily that have all failed usually due to inadequate lubrication, improper lubrication, contamination and..... over lubrication (didn't know that was possible did you?)

What I'd actually like to discuss is the use of various greases and our success or failures with them in diffs, particularly on the ring and pinion gears.

I currently have only ever used the greases supplied with my kits in the past and re-order from the original source as required. I'd like to find the end all, be all grease for my rigs.

Is there any particular reason we don't use a moly based grease meant for extreme gear pressures? Yeah, these gears are small, but the forces they see aren't.

So far I have a can of Lubriplate EP moly grease and a can of Lubriplate X-357 I'm going to try. The X-357 is another EP moly grease from them with additional thickeners to allow it to stick better to open gears. Which may mean the grease stays where we want to and not flung up against the inside of our housings.

Try using Aquacraft marine gear grease, works great on axles and transmissions too.