Shafty pro class

[Duuuuuuuude]

I fully understand the judging issues, but you need to think with some of the new formats like bonus gates between every regular gate, you could essentially run the same courses.

I've been saying this for a long time and people just don't seem to get it.

When I rode trials there were several classes that ran the same basic course, but once you got in there there were different lines to take, depending on the class you were in. Otherwise they were all judged the same.

Adding a new class with completely different courses only adds to the workload of the course builders and judges.

2.2 shafty if it was more of a spec class would really be interesting.

Maybe if somebody produces a box stock rig that doesn't drive like a half dead cat it would be interesting. Until then, it'd be painful to watch and most likely boring as hell.

 

[Almighty Malach]

We run sporty/2.2 pro in the same format as 1.9/supers: Same start gate, different colors gates for each class and use the same judge for both. It works very well in Colorado, and at national level comps. So the "extra workload" is just more drivers to run through.

 

[rock hard]

I've been saying this for a long time and people just don't seem to get it.

When I rode trials there were several classes that ran the same basic course, but once you got in there there were different lines to take, depending on the class you were in. Otherwise they were all judged the same.

Adding a new class with completely different courses only adds to the workload of the course builders and judges.



Maybe if somebody produces a box stock rig that doesn't drive like a half dead cat it would be interesting. Until then, it'd be painful to watch and most likely boring as hell.

In our club they are seperate courses,as they should be IMO.

in your trail riding....is there guys runing more than one class?
is there rules against prerunning?

Aslong as its not allowed to prerun,its not duable IMO.
if it was worded that you couldnt prerun GATES that different.
then on the same rock you could have lets say red gats,and blue gates.
red are moa,blue shafty....but its still the same as setting up additonal courses,only that they could be judged by same judges.So no real value IMO.
same judges judgingf multiple classes on same course/rock will just mean more drivers for a set of judges to score on same piec of rock.

But as long as a course is the gates and everything in between,then prerunning rule wont allow it,or atleast wont allow a driver run both,they would have to choose one.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

In our club they are seperate courses,as they should be IMO.

in your trail riding....is there guys runing more than one class?
is there rules against prerunning?

Its trials, not trails. And its very, very similar to what we do here. Even the scoring is nearly the same.

There are different classes that run together, but no one runs more than one. It usually takes a full day to run your class, so you couldn't run two if you wanted to. Not to mention its physically demanding. Not too many people stick around to play once they're done for the day.

Classes are set up based on skill. If you do really well you get forced up to the next class.

You cannot pre-run, though you can walk the course to see where you need to go. If you get caught pre-running you either get dq'd for the day or take maximum points for that section.

then on the same rock you could have lets say red gats,and blue gates.red are moa,blue shafty....but its still the same as setting up additonal courses,only that they could be judged by same judges.So no real value IMO. same judges judgingf multiple classes on same course/rock will just mean more drivers for a set of judges to score on same piec of rock.

It much less work than having two completely different courses. Same start, same finish.

Say you have an obstacle that an moa can climb but a sportsman can't. The sportsman gets an alternate route around it. Blue gates and red gates, just as you said.

Judges still have to judge. You can judge the classes on separate courses or judge them on the same course. You're still going to have the same amount of drivers.

Watch this vid. At :40 & :50 you'll see the rider take the line to the right of the marker that is for his class. The line to the left is for a less capable rider.

World Observed Trials Championship - Youth 125 - YouTube

 

[rock hard]

Its trials, not trails. And its very, very similar to what we do here. Even the scoring is nearly the same.

There are different classes that run together, but no one runs more than one. It usually takes a full day to run your class, so you couldn't run two if you wanted to. Not to mention its physically demanding. Not too many people stick around to play once they're done for the day.

Classes are set up based on skill. If you do really well you get forced up to the next class.

You cannot pre-run, though you can walk the course to see where you need to go. If you get caught pre-running you either get dq'd for the day or take maximum points for that section.



It much less work than having two completely different courses. Same start, same finish.

Say you have an obstacle that an moa can climb but a sportsman can't. The sportsman gets an alternate route around it. Blue gates and red gates, just as you said.

Judges still have to judge. You can judge the classes on separate courses or judge them on the same course. You're still going to have the same amount of drivers.

Watch this vid. At :40 you'll see the rider take the line to the right of the marker that is for his class. The line to the left is for a less capable rider.

World Observed Trials Championship - Youth 125 - YouTube

thats the same,yet different.
in that sport there are only so many competitors,each with only one run.
in this sport,there can me 50 drivers,butu running 2 classes,so those judges are now judgeing 100 competitor:shock:

I would say that 2 courses,2 sets of judges is less work in the end and would run more efficiently.

Oh,my kid rides a beta"thumbsup"
but he has all but out grown it now,mini trail bikesa re hard to find.
In our town we have enuro races "torn racing" and same thing,multilpe classes on same course,same lines. But you have to choose your class

either way,with our current rules,its not legal for a driver to run both classes IMO.Once the 2nd truck passed the start,its a dq for prerunning "if" you still firmly to the rules.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

thats the same,yet different.
in that sport there are only so many competitors,each with only one run.
in this sport,there can me 50 drivers,butu running 2 classes,so those judges are now judgeing 100 competitor:shock:

I would say that 2 courses,2 sets of judges is less work in the end and would run more efficiently.

We ran each section 3 times. Average turnout was anywhere from 20-50 riders. So that is 60-150 sections ridden at the end of the day. :ror:

With one multi-class course you use less area, and judges take shifts, much like many of them do now. Instead of 6 guys judging 6 individual courses you could have the same 6 guys rotating (3 on, 3 off at any given time) and judging 3 individual courses. That gives them time to put the clipboard down and run their own rigs without being rushed at the end of the day.

 

[rock hard]

We ran each section 3 times. Average turnout was anywhere from 20-50 riders. So that is 60-150 sections ridden at the end of the day. :ror:

With one multi-class course you use less area, and judges take shifts, much like many of them do now. Instead of 6 guys judging 6 individual courses you could have the same 6 guys rotating (3 on, 3 off at any given time) and judging 3 individual courses. That gives them time to put the clipboard down and run their own rigs without being rushed at the end of the day.

I know,I have seen how they do it now,and I know its more "efficient" but I dont like it myself.It may be more efficient,but its not what I want.
when I'm on course,I want it to be "mine" I dont want alot of activity on the rocks with me,for several reasons.I wont pay to attend a comp ran in that style.

IMO the only real benifit to setting up in same area,is you dont need as much area......well around here thats not an issue.nor was is it at any large comp I have attended.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

I know,I have seen how they do it now,and I know its more "efficient" but I dont like it myself.It may be more efficient,but its not what I want.
when I'm on course,I want it to be "mine" I dont want alot of activity on the rocks with me,for several reasons.I wont pay to attend a comp ran in that style.

IMO the only real benifit to setting up in same area,is you dont need as much area......well around here thats not an issue.nor was is it at any large comp I have attended.

I think you misunderstood me. Classes may run together, as in you may see a novice and an expert lining up to run a section, but there is always only one rider on course at a time.

 

[rock hard]

I think you misunderstood me. Classes may run together, as in you may see a novice and an expert lining up to run a section, but there is always only one rider on course at a time.

but they dont run multiple classes,hense no prerunning issue

look,I know what your saying,and your not alone,alot of people like the idea.
But I dont,we can go back and forth all day and night like we have done before on many tpoics:ror:

we disagree,I feel the rules simply dont allow it,hell I have been to comps where the same start lines are used.But once the tires on your 2nd truck cross that line.....its a dq,you have already had a truck on that section of course.....its prerunning IMO...But its really up to club leaders to do what they think is best for thier club.and event organizers to do what they feel is best for thier event.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

but they dont run multiple classes,hense no prerunning issue

look,I know what your saying,and your not alone,alot of people like the idea.
But I dont,we can go back and forth all day and night like we have done before on many tpoics:ror:

we disagree,I feel the rules simply dont allow it,hell I have been to comps where the same start lines are used.But once the tires on your 2nd truck cross that line.....its a dq,you have already had a truck on that section of course.....its prerunning IMO...But its really up to club leaders to do what they think is best for thier club.and event organizers to do what they feel is best for thier event.

I get what you're saying as well. I guess most of the comps I've been to where people ran multiple classes did so with rigs that could not compete on the same course, meaning they'd start the day with a 2.2 and then go on to run a 1.9 or super.

Having said that, running the same course with a moa and then doing it again with a sportsman shafty would work, as the moa lines will not be the same as the sportsman lines. Whatever ground those two classes might share would be inconsequential.

 

[rock hard]

I get what you're saying as well. I guess most of the comps I've been to where people ran multiple classes did so with rigs that could not compete on the same course, meaning they'd start the day with a 2.2 and then go on to run a 1.9 or super.

Having said that, running the same course with a moa and then doing it again with a sportsman shafty would work, as the moa lines will not be the same as the sportsman lines. Whatever ground those two classes might share would be inconsequential.

not neccessarily,often the terrain between gates is as challenging as a gate itself.
Type of tires,weight to use,shock tension ect,are all things you could use your 1st run to help tune the next for the same area.
So just cuz your not going through same gates,a driver who runs same area could take advantage of things learned in his previous run,and use that to help tune for the next run.
thats a possible advantage the driver who only runs one class doesnt get.

hense the rule against prerunning
hense the rule truck can only be used in one class.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Type of tires,weight to use,shock tension ect,are all things you could use your 1st run to help tune the next for the same area.
So just cuz your not going through same gates,a driver who runs same area could take advantage of things learned in his previous run,and use that to help tune for the next run.
thats a possible advantage the driver who only runs one class doesnt get.

hense the rule against prerunning
hense the rule truck can only be used in one class.

The same could be said for anyone who is local to the crawling area vs someone from out of town.

But again, the two rigs will not be taking the same lines throughout the course, and both rigs will be set up differently because they are in fact different rigs. An moa does not drive or react to the terrain the same way a shafty does. Even if they were tuned the same (springs/shocks/tires) they will drive differently. Watching other drivers using similar rigs would be more beneficial than the time you spent on course with a rig of a different class.

Though I could see how running a shafty pro and then going back and running a shafty sportsman could be a point of contention.

 

[rock hard]

The same could be said for anyone who is local to the crawling area vs someone from out of town.

But again, the two rigs will not be taking the same lines throughout the course, and both rigs will be set up differently because they are in fact different rigs. An moa does not drive or react to the terrain the same way a shafty does. Even if they were tuned the same (springs/shocks/tires) they will drive differently. Watching other drivers using similar rigs would be more beneficial than the time you spent on course with a rig of a different class.

Though I could see how running a shafty pro and then going back and running a shafty sportsman could be a point of contention.

true,IMO it is no doubt locals have a home advantage,especially when exact lines in certain areas are reused from past comps.
But weather does make a difference,and it may not be exactly the same.

That is no reason to justify competitors having advantage by running on same rock,in same area on same day with different trucks IMO.

we like I said we dissagree,we will not sway the other,you feel its not the same as preruning,I do.and as such,I would never support the idea.
its better for the sake of fair competition,to keep courses seperate.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

we like I said we dissagree,we will not sway the other,you feel its not the same as preruning,I do.and as such,I would never support the idea.
its better for the sake of fair competition,to keep courses seperate.

Does your club have members that run both pro and sportsman?

 

[rock hard]

Does your club have members that run both pro and sportsman?

yep,nobody just runs sportman in our club.I have the parts for my sportsman also.

we run seperate courses for everything.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

yep,nobody just runs sportman in our club.I have the parts for my sportsman also.

we run seperate courses for everything.

One club I comp with runs pro and 1.9. Obviously separate courses for each.

The other runs sportsman, pro, and 1.9. Most who run sportsman do not have pro rigs. And since pro is the most popular, sportsman and 1.9 only run if there are enough entries. IIRC, sportsman runs the same course as pro with a bigger time limit and higher points allowance.

 

[rock hard]

One club I comp with runs pro and 1.9. Obviously separate courses for each.

The other runs sportsman, pro, and 1.9. Most who run sportsman do not have pro rigs. And since pro is the most popular, sportsman and 1.9 only run if there are enough entries. IIRC, sportsman runs the same course as pro with a bigger time limit and higher points allowance.

Like I said,club leaders,or event organizers make the call in the end to do what they feel is best to serve thier needs.

But if you stick strickly to the rules.....the ground between and around is all part of the course.

I would deffinatly set up courses where I didnt feel that was possible.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Like I said,club leaders,or event organizers make the call in the end to do what they feel is best to serve thier needs.

But if you stick strickly to the rules.....the ground between and around is all part of the course.

I would deffinatly set up courses where I didnt feel that was possible.

Absolutely. On a national level I would expect separate courses for each class.

But on a local level setting up separate courses to accommodate 3 people is nuts.

Still, it would be an interesting format to experiment with.

 

[soutthpaw]

I agree that there should be separate classes for Shafty and MOA. or if running together then DIG should be allowed.

 

[The Violator]

Maybe if somebody produces a box stock rig that doesn't drive like a half dead cat it would be interesting. Until then, it'd be painful to watch and most likely boring as hell.

There are 2 arguments going on here. If we want to grow the sport some sort of limted spec class will help. There ARE guys right now custom making parts for a class that does not even exist on the national event level yet.

Not everyone is going to be happy. Forget that one. If people want to run a shafty class then lets have at it. Same rules as 2.2 pro. Then we get to use more stuff we have laying around. Body, no body, as long as it would pass in 2.2 pro, its good. Same wheelbase, same width. Only one change to the rules.

One Motor, One servo. Its that simple.



It could be called 2.2.1