VS410 Phoenix?

[Doomp]

Whats up everyone.

So after culling my collection in late 2020, I kept the trail king, the capra and a sparetime hobbies V1W on AR44's and axial 3 gear. Been real pleased with what i've kept and now after building a new gaming computer (dear god GPU prices are absurd) and with tax returns on the way I have decided i want the new phoenix, i absolutely love the toyota "inspired" body haha.

This will be my first vanquish truck, Aluminum axles are cool and all but in 10+ years of running crawlers i can count on one hand how many plastic housings ive broke, tf2 yota axles on the other hand... never again.

But i have some questions from those that have the truck.
(yes i've looked through all the build threads and many hours of youtube videos)
But im looking for real world experience for driving performance, quirks and anything else.

Also what turn/KV & pinion/spurs combos are recommended I will be running on 3S. MAYBE 4S if the axles will handle it

Any performance parts that are essential? so far all ive found is the aluminum motor plate, aluminum standoffs and aluminum shock towers. Are these even needed?

How are the stock driveshafts?

Does any one make brass knuckles for the front axle? is the extra weight even needed? Does the F9 knuckles aluminum knuckles fit the F10 axles?

How are the stock tires? I will probably run PB rock beast 4.45, also have the PB rock beast XL's and proline trxUs G8. The Hyrax's stay on the capra and the Proline BFG mud t/a's are staying on the trail king for sure.

This should conclude my ramblings for the day.

 

[DrIsotope]

I'm running mine box-stock (except for wheels/tires) on 4S all day, zero issues. I don't see a need to "upgrade" anything, it just works.
Mine is set up with a CC Copperhead and 1900kv Slate 1406, excellent low, plenty of bump, and the 4S allows me to take full advantage
of the 900+ ounces of my AGFRC A86. I haven't broken a thing on mine, and I'm far from the best/safest driver out there.

 

[Doomp]

I'm running mine box-stock (except for wheels/tires) on 4S all day, zero issues. I don't see a need to "upgrade" anything, it just works.
Mine is set up with a CC Copperhead and 1900kv Slate 1406, excellent low, plenty of bump, and the 4S allows me to take full advantage
of the 900+ ounces of my AGFRC A86. I haven't broken a thing on mine, and I'm far from the best/safest driver out there.

Awesome! Good to hear about it being robust enough for 4S. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[jump_it]

Mine is completely stock drive train wise, I am running 90mm shocks.

When installing the e-clips give them a squeeze with pliers to kinda pinch it onto the shaft a little tighter had one come off and was lucky it did not damage any of the gears, that is the only issue I have had with mine, but so far I have only ran the hobbywing 1200kv, and currently the spektrum firma 2300kv 3s

faif racing rc makes some brass covers

https://faifracingrc.com/producto/cubiertas-laton-vs4-10-phoenix-95-gr/

 

[ALPINEX]

The aluminum trans parts are supposed to really help the trans live. I’ve seen several posts about gear breakage, but the solution (for now) seems to be the motor plate, standoffs and bearing plates.

I’m running those parts, the rest of the drivetrain is stock, on 4s with a mamba x and 2850kv slate motor. I’ve only got 10 packs or so through the truck, but no issues so far and the wheel speed is awesome!

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[Doomp]

Mine is completely stock drive train wise, I am running 90mm shocks.

When installing the e-clips give them a squeeze with pliers to kinda pinch it onto the shaft a little tighter had one come off and was lucky it did not damage any of the gears, that is the only issue I have had with mine, but so far I have only ran the hobbywing 1200kv, and currently the spektrum firma 2300kv 3s

faif racing rc makes some brass covers

Thats good to know about the e-clips and thank you for the link to the brass covers that really helps. I saw a video of some one running 90mm shocks instead of 80s and it seemed that was quite the performance upgrade. Vanquish shocks tend to leave something to be desired. SSD shocks it is then, their awesome on the trail king, being the 9 pound pig it is.
I'll throw the 80s on my STH V1W for some belly dragger utah sandstone action.

The aluminum trans parts are supposed to really help the trans live. I’ve seen several posts about gear breakage, but the solution (for now) seems to be the motor plate, standoffs and bearing plates.

I’m running those parts, the rest of the drivetrain is stock, on 4s with a mamba x and 2850kv slate motor. I’ve only got 10 packs or so through the truck, but no issues so far and the wheel speed is awesome!

Good to hear the axles are handling 4S so far, i hadnt found if the bearing plates were compatible with the new version of the transmission, thanks for the info. "thumbsup"

 

[Lashlee]

Like others, I've had no problems out of mine. I bought the motor plate, stand offs and bearing plates before I put mine together. I also used a KNK screw kit. 4S using a Copperhead with a 3500kv with a 12 (maybe a 13) tooth pinion. I didn't even touch the stock tires (I didn't use them on my Ultra either), I also don't have the portal covers but feel it's a great start right out of the box!

 

[jump_it]

Thats good to know about the e-clips and thank you for the link to the brass covers that really helps. I saw a video of some one running 90mm shocks instead of 80s and it seemed that was quite the performance upgrade. Vanquish shocks tend to leave something to be desired. SSD shocks it is then, their awesome on the trail king, being the 9 pound pig it is.
I'll throw the 80s on my STH V1W for some belly dragger utah sandstone action.

Always looking for other shocks to try I will have to do some searching on the ssd 90mm shocks, I mostly run Team Associated FT 90mm or traxxas trx4 shocks.

Currently my phoenix has the traxxas on rear for the slightly stiffer springs and associated shocks up front mounted to rock pirate rc shock towers, the associated shocks are smooth in their travel and do not leak, traxxas shocks seal up well too but do have that known sticky spot.

It is a good rig been enjoying it so much that I have not been running any of my other rigs.

 

[twade984]

traxxas shocks seal up well too but do have that known sticky spot.

I’m having good luck using the white spacer from the TRA2362 kit between the x-rings. No weird sticking after they sit, and no leaks so far.


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[Doomp]

Like others, I've had no problems out of mine. I bought the motor plate, stand offs and bearing plates before I put mine together. I also used a KNK screw kit. 4S using a Copperhead with a 3500kv with a 12 (maybe a 13) tooth pinion. I didn't even touch the stock tires (I didn't use them on my Ultra either), I also don't have the portal covers but feel it's a great start right out of the box!

Damn Lashlee whats the top speed on that setup? haha
Im liking the idea of running 4S more and more, i dont have any 4S batteries so i may have to pick one up.
Thanks for the feedback! "thumbsup"

Always looking for other shocks to try I will have to do some searching on the ssd 90mm shocks, I mostly run Team Associated FT 90mm or traxxas trx4 shocks.

Currently my phoenix has the traxxas on rear for the slightly stiffer springs and associated shocks up front mounted to rock pirate rc shock towers, the associated shocks are smooth in their travel and do not leak, traxxas shocks seal up well too but do have that known sticky spot.

It is a good rig been enjoying it so much that I have not been running any of my other rigs.

The ssd shocks are great, no leaks and they are still as smooth as when i built them 2 years ago. Im running stock springs in the rear with soft greens up front with 55 weight oil, I have zero complaints.

The Team Associated FT 90mm are amazing, i had 2 enduros and the shocks were top performers with 40-50 weight oil.

Traxxas has had some great shocks over the years and absolute trash at the same time. When i had a TRX4 i was suprized with how good they were for stock.

For pure performance though, dravtechs. I've had acouple of sets over the years and thier still my favorite. Tuning can be abit... Overwhemling at times to get that perfect setup.

I’m having good luck using the white spacer from the TRA2362 kit between the x-rings. No weird sticking after they sit, and no leaks so far.

Twade984 is correct about the tra2362 white spacer, combine that with some associated green slime and your golden bud. I did the same on my 2wd slash when i dabbled in short course racing.
Back in the day i wouldnt even bother to assemble stock traxxas shocks, looking at you OG scx10 and wraith.



Any Ways, back to the phoenix.
After browsing RPP for some parts and checking the cart, my bank account is sweating bullets like it was when i was hunting a RX6800XT gpu last year. (ended up with a RX6800 instead, still a beast of a gpu)
Im building this truck as a pretty hardcore crawler because of its features, and trying to keep it relatively lite.
I probably wont build another truck for a year or 2 so i might as well go all out right? RIGHT?!

HH BR-XL
HH Torquemaster 30T Expert
CC 10amp bec
Reefs triple5 V2 for steering duty
Reefs 99 micro for OD/dig (I have some 1/8 carbon fiber to make these micros work)
Reefs 299LP winch servo (Reef's i know i know, I've ran them for years and have never had a single issue with the 5 i own, also very quiet)
Spektrum SR6200A 6 channel rx
Incision series 1 light kit
Vanquish aluminum standoffs
Vanquish aluminum bearing plate set
Vanquish aluminum motor plate
Vanquish 20mm servo horn
Reefs 25t micro servo horn X2
SSD 1.9 contender beadlocks in bronze
SSD 3mm offset hub with brake rotors
C.I Lil' Nova Dual Stage 4.75" Comp Cut Inner / Medium Outer
C.I Lil' Nova Dual Stage 4.75" Comp Cut Inner / Soft Outer
P/L BFGoodrich Krawler T/A KX 1.9" Predator Tires
FT enduro bronze shocks
FT Aluminum shock parts
Assorted enduro springs
Incision driveshafts

I have some of the electronics already, but its an eye watering $1550 sitting in the rpp cart right now.
Fortunately or unfortunately depending how you look at things, im of the mind set of "i can always make more money, so enjoy it while you can"

Tiny trucks are still cheaper than tires for my full size rigs of the past, 37" BFG muds for the 1980 hilux or 42" pitbull rockers bias ply's for the jeep on tons or a new turbo for a 7.3 tow rig Or literally any part for my old 67 lincoln continental, but i digress.

If i feel like the truck needs some weight up front ill snag a set of the faif knuckle weights if shipping isnt crazy from spain. Worse case scenorio SSD brass rings or steel rotors up front.

And Kudo's if you made it through Doomps Daily Ramblings.

 

[twade984]

Sounds like a hell of a rig you’ll have!

Don’t forget to use rpp’s discount code


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[Lashlee]

I agree, one hell of a rig!! I like having the option of wheel speed, but I'll say that I don't feel like the jump from 3S to 4S to be as beneficial as going from 2S to 3S. Either way, there's a few obstacles where I crawl that appreciate some wheel speed to get up (my GSpeed and TGH rigs don't have enough wheel speed for it) but it's nice to have it. Like I said, I drop down to a 12T pinion to get back into a reasonable area for torque. I use a Reef's 99 for the OD with the Reef's servo horn with no problems. Just make sure you keep them unplugged when setting it up, I burned up one 99 when I first built it not realizing it was toggled when I was setting the steering and dig end points. I don't blame the servo, I blame the dumb operator!

 

[Doomp]

Sounds like a hell of a rig you’ll have!

Don’t forget to use rpp’s discount code

Yea, that price is with the 10% coupon. I may or may not change some electronics around, but we'll see.
I mean Techinally i have most of the electronics/shocks/ wheels and tires sitting here to make a high end scale comp build.
I just dont want to cannabalize a truck or two to do it. I guess i could sell the built flat rail comp rig since i rarely drive it to offset the cost abit and the motor/esc is coming out of it for the phoenix any ways.
Buuut you can only drive one at a time, IDK we'll see if the irs screws up my tax return this year.
I have terrible self control over my hobbies so if my returns are correct ill be ordering everything.

 

[Doomp]

I agree, one hell of a rig!! I like having the option of wheel speed, but I'll say that I don't feel like the jump from 3S to 4S to be as beneficial as going from 2S to 3S. Either way, there's a few obstacles where I crawl that appreciate some wheel speed to get up (my GSpeed and TGH rigs don't have enough wheel speed for it) but it's nice to have it. Like I said, I drop down to a 12T pinion to get back into a reasonable area for torque. I use a Reef's 99 for the OD with the Reef's servo horn with no problems. Just make sure you keep them unplugged when setting it up, I burned up one 99 when I first built it not realizing it was toggled when I was setting the steering and dig end points. I don't blame the servo, I blame the dumb operator!

I was curious of the jump from 3-4S, I've thought about going 4S for my rigs for years now and this just might be the tipping point.
Oh yea, anything with more than one servo i setup everything up in the remote with 0% endpoints on switches and the servo is hooked up and centered before the horn goes on and adjust up till its right. I learned that lesson when the twin hammers came out with the shift servo, i might've burned acouple up with that truck until i broke the mount with some stupid high power hitec.
And i had one randomly die in a capra.
I used to fly planes and collective pitch heli's before the rise of quadcopters, so servo setup is #1 priority.
RIP LR1-A Pogo pylon race plane, I spent so much time building that plane and totaled it on its maiden flight. Totally my fault, should have setup a switch to switch to lower endpoints at speed (135 mph+) Who would've guessed full servo throw at speed was a bad idea? I still love rc planes but balsa wood and monokoat is not for me, ill stick with foamies.

 

[josh9mile]

Sounds like a hell of a rig you’ll have!

Don’t forget to use rpp’s discount code


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What's the code?

 

[durok]

What's the code?

Available here: https://www.rpphobby.com/Articles.asp?ID=247

 

[Doomp]

Question to those that run SSD 25mm wheels or if some one has some on hand to check on the phoenix to compare track widths that'd be great.

I'll be picking up a set of SSD contenders if it matters.

I know the phoenix has standard and wide hubs, does that compare to standard SSD offset and like 3mm+ hubs or what?
I believe i read somewhere the wides are like +5mm but that seems to me that would leave quite abit of portal knuckle hanging out to get hung up on and create excess tire scrub.

I dont want to skew the track widgth to much, i have SSD 6mm hubs/rotors on hand and I'll be picking up a set of 3mm hubs/rotors but should i also pick up a set of standard hub/rotors? or would that make it to narrow?


Somewhat off topic but i have decided to turn the trail king into a class 1 truck since it already has full width bumpers so i'll be putting its 4.75" proline BFG KM3 predators on the phoenix, hopefully they perform as good as the BFG Krawler T/A KX i've ran in the past on other trucks.

The phoenix will be my dedicated class 2 & 3 truck. Locking the OD into 33% and disconnecting both the OD/dig servos would make it legal for class 2 right? or am i missing something?
Or do i turn the capra into a dedicated class 3 rig with some TGH wheels to narrow the track width?

Also i have decided against running FT enduro shocks and will run a set off SSD's shocks instead.

 

[Doomp]

So i pulled the trigger and ordered the phoenix and some parts.

From Vanquish directly:

Phoenix kit
aluminum standoffs
aluminum motor plate
aluminum bearing plate set
vanquish 20mm servo horn
vanquish 24mm servo horn X2
spare 52t spur
spare front portal axle

From RPP:

Incison series 1 light kit
Reef's RC Triple5v2 for steering duty
SSD RC 3mm Offset Wheel Hub with Brake Rotor
SSD RC Wheel Hub with Brake Rotor standard
SSD RC 1.9" Contender Beadlock Wheels (Bronze)
Pro-Line BFGoodrich Krawler T/A KX 1.9" Predator Tires
Reef's RC 299LP Servo Winch with Built-In Controller
Reef's RC Synthetic Winch Line w/ Steel Hook
Team KNK Vanquish VS4-10 Phoenix Stainless Hardware Kit
Team Losi Racing Silicone Shock Oil (50wt, 2oz)
Team Losi Racing Silicone Shock Oil (60wt, 2oz)
Team Losi Racing Silicone Shock Oil (70wt, 2oz)
Spektrum SR515 DSMR 5 Ch Receiver
Crawler Innovations Lil' Nova Dual Stage 4.75" Comp Cut Inner / Medium Outer
Tamiya Polycarbonate PS-23 Gun Metal 100ml Spray
Tamiya Polycarbonate PS-31 Smoke 100ml Spray
Tamiya Polycarbonate PS-5 Black 100ml Spray
SSD RC Pro Scale 90mm Shocks Silver / Black (2)

Im either using a HH BR XL with a 30T torquemaster expert
or a HH trailmaster BLE with a trailmaster motor of unknown KV (in the engine housing of the trail king currently)

For OD/Dig ill be using 2 reefs 422HD V1's out of the V1W that hasnt been drove in over a year, i doubt she'll mind much. Possibly snagging the MIP's out of it also

Ill be swapping out some CI comp cuts with soft outers between the trail king and phoenix so both trucks will have medium rears and soft fronts.
I will also be taking out the rear brass internal rings from the trail king and they will find a new home in the front wheels of the phoenix.

I guess thats all, I will posting a build thread next week when all this junk shows up here in the middle of no where utah.

 

[B-MOW71]

So i pulled the trigger and ordered the phoenix and some parts.

I guess thats all, I will posting a build thread next week when all this junk shows up here in the middle of no where utah.

Wow!:shock: Nice list of parts!

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing this build thread!

 

[twade984]

I agree, this should be a nice setup!


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