wheelbase mesurement rule 6.4

[dpdsurf]

I would have liked to see the rule be the "never exceeds 12.5" way. Gives drivers a choice, either build a low truck with a true 12.5" wb or a taller one with a shorter wb that can extend to 12.5". It's called a COMPROMISE, as many things in crawling are. Same as running a narrow truck that can have more options thru gates with less stability or a wider truck with less gate options and more stability.

Being forced to run droop to run the max WB doesn't seam like a compromise to me. The compromise is the rule as it is now written. "thumbsup"

 

[Fishmaxx]

Actually, it's a debate on who's driving this cart? Do the MFG's have a say in what the rules should be? (for their own benifit?) Or does USRCCA set the rules and the MFG's build parts to be within the rules? (so that it's a level playing field for all the MFG's?)

We do consult with manufactures, but they don't tell us what to.

As far a vendor ending with worthless inventory I am not buying it. All the chassis I know have multiple mounting option, shocks come in a variety of lengths, shock oil comes in almost 20 different weights, springs come different tensions, and can be preloaded to make ADJUSTMENTS. Will some people have to change their set up? Absolutely. I talk to the best drivers in the country everyday, and they are all taking this in stride. If you guys can't figure out how to do on your send me a PM I will get you in touch with somebody that can make it work."thumbsup"

for you fishy,


"supported by its own weight". from dpdsurf above...

Physics. acting by mere weight without producing motion: static pressure.

these two go hand in hand.....

You had me worried .....I thought maybe "with the vehicles suspension holding it's own weight" (actual rule wording) was the definition of static.

I went back 3 years into the rules, and never found "static" in any of them just like I never found "anytime your truck goes passed 12.5".

For either side to be 100% correct they have to add words to the rules.

Going back to your definition and use of static under the new wording is the truck NOT "producing motion" at the time of the measurement?

I am also courious to term you would call this type of measurment?

 

[krawlfreak]

If you still want to use your jig, just set up your shocks for full droop, then build your lower links to fit, then add the springs to the shocks....then build your upper links.

this is quite true. works well and also it is the way most 1:1 rigs are built to ensure there is no interference.

please go do this and return with your results, if it works like i beleave it will depending on your shock and chassis setup your going to have a ground clearance of well over 4 inches. and have terrible cog.

it has been done for years and i do belive you are wrong"thumbsup"


as far as the wheelbase, it seem the only people whining about the rule are the ones that run a 4" belly at 12.5" WB. i am not stabbing at anyone here. the fact is there was a lot of variance in the judging of wheelbase accross the country and even at the "big shows". dont get me wrong you might have to make some changes or figure out a new way to push the rules, but they are the rules. there have been a few things i am not completely happy with but that is just the way it is.

i think the wheelbase judging standardization is not an overly bad decision.

now you just need to figure out how to push it to the limit to be competitive,
sounds like a challenge to me:twisted:

 

[joesbruiser]

now you just need to figure out how to push it to the limit to be competitive,
sounds like a challenge to me:twisted:

With the rule like it is you are correct.
I know I will not stop untill I have a rig that fits the rule and stretches out to atleast 12.75-13:twisted:

 

[ROCKCAD]

What was the OFFICIAL method of tech before?

The answer is there wasn't one.

I have been to almost every major comp the was over the last 3 years, had my truck teched at least 4x diffrent ways.




hows does it get more easier amd simpler than this ?? (2009 rule) :shock:

Class 2.2​

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2.3.1 - Vehicle wheelbase is limited to a maximum of 12.5 inches. This is determined by measuring
from centerline of front axle stub to centerline of rear axle stub, with all the wheels pointing straight ahead, with the vehicles suspension holding it's own weight​

i know fishmax that every comp you go to , they have and measure the wb in different ways.

THE RESON IS: CLUBS DON'T READ OR KNOW THE RULES AND JUST GO BY WHAT THEY HEARD THE RULE IS OR METHODS WHAT OTHERS HAVE USED.


THE NEW RULE IS GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE TIGHTEN THEIR SHOCKS SPRINGS OR OTHER METHODS TO MAKE WB CORRECT AT TECH AND THEN ALTER THE SPRINGS OR WHATEVER TO GO BACK TO WHAT THE WANT.

I KNOW PEOPLE HAVE SUGGESTED TECHING BEFORE EVERY COURSE,THATS GREAT, BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS IT TAKES TOO LONG AND MORE PEOPLE TO RUN A COMP ESPECIALLY ON THE LOCAL LEVEL.

YOU START RE-TECHING DRIVERS ON COURSE, MORE WASTED TIME AND INTERUPTING A DRIVERS RUN. LONGER COMP DAYS

 

[Nova's Ark]

This seems to keep getting lost in the discussion;

This rule was created to form a nation wide standard in how to tech wheel base for all competition trucks.

Wheel base length in not even mentioned in the 6.4 rule. As others have stated, tech inspection was being handled differently in different regions of the nation. All this new rule does is create a rule that standardizes the tech procedure. So although your rules committee member does represent you, you can attribute the implementation of this new rule directly to the people that could not interpret the previous rule of "the vehicle holding it's own weight."

 

[Fishmaxx]

THE NEW RULE IS GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE TIGHTEN THEIR SHOCKS SPRINGS OR OTHER METHODS TO MAKE WB CORRECT AT TECH AND THEN ALTER THE SPRINGS OR WHATEVER TO GO BACK TO WHAT THE WANT.

Anybody that does that runs the risk of being spot checked by the Judges according to...

o 1.4.4 Vehicle Out of Spec: If the Judge has reason to believe a vehicle is out of spec during a course run, he may call time to stop. If time is called by the Judge, the Judge must mark the vehicle’s location and perform a tech inspection in the specified tech area (same manner as all other tech inspections). If the vehicle has been deemed within spec, the driver and vehicle will return to the location marked by the judge and the clock will start once again. If the vehicle is now out of spec and the Judge has determined that the vehicle has gained an advantage, the driver must take a repair (see rule 1.4.3) to correct the problem. If the problem can not be corrected to bring thevehicle back within spec, the driver will receive a DNF for that course (see rule 1.8 ). If a vehicle falls out of specdue to breakage on course and the Judge determines the driver has not gained an advantage, then the driver maybe allowed to continue on course without stopping time and requiring a tech inspection. Bodies, and body panels arenot included in this exception, and must be replaced immediately, standard repair procedures and penalties apply.

Same goes for loosening motors, wheel hexs or whatever method drivers will come up with to try to bypass the tech.

If I see someone do it I will tell the judge on the first course they run"thumbsup"

 

[roksloski]

Going back to your definition and use of static under the new wording is the truck NOT "producing motion" at the time of the measurement?

When you push a truck down and let it spring back up, you just forced it into a static position...:shock:

 

[DwaneO]

It doesn't sound like many people do , But I do , appreciate all of the work that went into the new rules.

and sticking up for em afterwards

 

[Manning]

I like the new rule, it's not perfect, but it is a step in the right direction.

But since it's easy to get around by preloading the snot out of the springs, I fully anticipate it being changed to "never goes over 12.5 ever" for 2011.

Gonna go measure my rig now........

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

With the rule like it is you are correct.
I know I will not stop untill I have a rig that fits the rule and stretches out to atleast 12.75-13:twisted:

With my 3 sons and my rig, I got 4 rigs that I set up and I got the 12.75 stretch out going on the 1st one "thumbsup" I don't have to preload my spring or anything, I didn't have to mod my links either.

I have always set my rigs wheel base so that it never went over 12.5, cause thats how I read it. But after all this talk and having a set way to tech, I'm going for the stretch.:mrgreen:

 

[53 willys]

I would have liked to see the rule be the "never exceeds 12.5" way. Gives drivers a choice, either build a low truck with a true 12.5" wb or a taller one with a shorter wb that can extend to 12.5". It's called a COMPROMISE, as many things in crawling are. Same as running a narrow truck that can have more options thru gates with less stability or a wider truck with less gate options and more stability.

I like this version...I will live by any rule the RC set's...but I see lots of 12.5" WB's stretching out to 13"...witch IMHO is an advantage.


I can set my rig up either way....so NO I'm not picking on anybody or any certain set-up....but if growing the WB is legal then I'm gonna set mine up to GROW :twisted:


I think level playing field would be never exceed 12.5"....(witch pretty much mean tech at FULL compression.)"thumbsup"

flame suit on.....

 

[hellbentrodder]

I like this version...I will live by any rule the RC set's...but I see lots of 12.5" WB's stretching out to 13"...witch IMHO is an advantage.


I can set my rig up either way....so NO I'm not picking on anybody or any certain set-up....but if growing the WB is legal then I'm gonna set mine up to GROW :twisted:


I think level playing field would be never exceed 12.5"....(witch pretty much mean tech at FULL compression.)"thumbsup"

flame suit on.....

X2 "thumbsup" No flaming from me!

 

[jfraymond]

Anybody that does that runs the risk of being spot checked by the Judges according to...

o 1.4.4 Vehicle Out of Spec: If the Judge has reason to believe a vehicle is out of spec during a course run, he may call time to stop. If time is called by the Judge, the Judge must mark the vehicle’s location and perform a tech inspection in the specified tech area (same manner as all other tech inspections). If the vehicle has been deemed within spec, the driver and vehicle will return to the location marked by the judge and the clock will start once again. If the vehicle is now out of spec and the Judge has determined that the vehicle has gained an advantage, the driver must take a repair (see rule 1.4.3) to correct the problem. If the problem can not be corrected to bring thevehicle back within spec, the driver will receive a DNF for that course (see rule 1.8 ). If a vehicle falls out of specdue to breakage on course and the Judge determines the driver has not gained an advantage, then the driver maybe allowed to continue on course without stopping time and requiring a tech inspection. Bodies, and body panels arenot included in this exception, and must be replaced immediately, standard repair procedures and penalties apply.

Same goes for loosening motors, wheel hexs or whatever method drivers will come up with to try to bypass the tech.

If I see someone do it I will tell the judge on the first course they run"thumbsup"

6.4 - Wheelbase: is measured from center of axle nut to center of axle nut. The vehicle should be set down on a flat surface by the driver. The front wheel on the side that is being checked, must be pointing straight forward. At that time, the driver will then push the entire truck down to complete a full compressed suspension. Once full compression has been made, the driver then releases the truck to return to ride height. After the truck has rebound to a self supporting ride height, a judge will then measure the wheelbase. If both sides are to be checked, all the above procedures must be duplicated.

So what method would you suggest for the driver to insist on in order to comply with the measuring method if the tension in their drivetrain combined with the drag of the suface the tech is being done on is altering/interfering with the vehicles ability to return to proper ride height?

pulling a pinion, popping the hexes loose or bringing a set of rollers to place under the tires are the closest ways i can think of in order to ensure actual ride height is acheived based soley on the truck itself.

 

[rob_b]

I'm just going to install a servo driven kickstand:mrgreen:

 

[bigflex]

I for one am grateful for all the work that you guys on the rules comity have done to get the 2010 rules done. I have no problems with the way this rule turned out as I feel it is fair. You guys that are whinning need to find a way to get over it because the rules are the rules and if you want to compete you have to do what it takes to make your rigs legal."thumbsup"

 

[yotachump]

How about if you want to tech at ride height we actually do it that way.

Get a tech table that is 6ft long and have the judge drive the truck from one end of the table to the other then measure WB. That would be actual ride height.

 

[sococrawler]

How about if you want to tech at ride height we actually do it that way.

Get a tech table that is 6ft long and have the judge drive the truck from one end of the table to the other then measure WB. That would be actual ride height.

:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock: "it's so crazy, it just might work" !

I myself feel this rule is OK, not perfect by any means but ok, my rigs are built and ran, (like most of us) and alway's made sure that where my rig is the most stable is where i'm going to make sure that the way i've been tech'd in the past it's not over the standard WB, now i just have to go back to the workbench and spend more time in my garage (that has tv,radio,heater,etc,etc,etc) Oh My castle as i call it and spend time working on rigs and stayin away from naggin kids, frickin mtv,HSN,soaps or what the frick ever is on that i don't wanna hear and in the meantime i'm lowering my BP! IMHO this is one of the reasons why i'm in this sport!
OH yeah and to beat Bcrofts,Rockcad,PeeWee and last but not least The "CHUMP" himself :mrgreen:
Sorry bout all that but had to lower my BP again8)
Guy's this now brings new life to crawlin and adds more to the level of competition that we all have!
Randy
(now let the flamin begin)

 

[rock hard]

I went back 3 years into the rules, and I never found "anytime your truck goes passed 12.5". [/COLOR]

For either side to be 100% correct they have to add words

well it is basically the same thing aint it?

rule 3.8

 

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

How about if you want to tech at ride height we actually do it that way.

Get a tech table that is 6ft long and have the judge drive the truck from one end of the table to the other then measure WB. That would be actual ride height.

That was one of the options in our vote.