While testing Elite against others we found big C Rating trickery

[losikid]

I know exactly what brand p is, kinda got me stumped beings thats what i have been running, you should check out the batteries hobbypartz sell "blue lipos" i noticed a performance jump (1300's) from those to brand p (1100's), i'm also interested in how original turnigies and nano-tech turnigies compare, both 1300's and 1500's as they seem to be a decent battery as well, i've seen a rig running same size motors but diff brans, mine are warrior r/ts his is hh's, any ways his turnigies seemed to have the power mine didn't, thats why i jumped over to brand p, thought i was getting that 50c compared to the turnigy 25-35c.

 

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

I really cant go out and test all the batts out there as much as I would like to. Problem is, almost all the batts out there are over rated. So chances are you got some that were total crap, and some that were less crap. Turnigy has never been known ad a good brand. Good budget packs. But not what we would consider a high quality pack.

Sadly, your brand P packs are not great. The turnigy's you compared them to, probably were some that werent horrible.

 

[Aussie Nerd]

Now you have tested p and x can you also test hyperion please. Your elite 1100mahs seem very well priced compared to what I have been paying for my hyperion 1100mah.

Thanks"thumbsup"
Kieren

 

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Which Hyperion?

 

[Aussie Nerd]

45c 1100mah they are the ones I have been running most recently.

Thanks
Kieren

 

[binaryterror]

Personally I'd also rather see full pack testing. Why because thats how we use them. Why not test them as they arrive from the suppliers ready for us to use. Some of us could see this as hiding build quality of your own, but boasting about single cell ability. I understand your and your company as battery guys care more about cell quality, but as a consumer I need to know what I'm buying is good.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'd just rather see useful information on the packs we use, not individual cells. It always goes back to weakest link, and even with the best cells you know as well as we do we want the best for our trucks and many of us will pay for it as long as we can get some data to support it.

Your tests have me on the fence (as I need new packs anyhow) but I'd personally like, if possible, to see tests of complete packs.

 

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Personally I'd also rather see full pack testing. Why because thats how we use them. Why not test them as they arrive from the suppliers ready for us to use. Some of us could see this as hiding build quality of your own, but boasting about single cell ability. I understand your and your company as battery guys care more about cell quality, but as a consumer I need to know what I'm buying is good.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'd just rather see useful information on the packs we use, not individual cells. It always goes back to weakest link, and even with the best cells you know as well as we do we want the best for our trucks and many of us will pay for it as long as we can get some data to support it.

Your tests have me on the fence (as I need new packs anyhow) but I'd personally like, if possible, to see tests of complete packs.

I would gladly test a whole pack for you. I have been building lipos longer than anyone on this board, and since before Thunder Power. Packs I have built currently hold world records in electric boat racing. Definitely nothing to hide. Testing single cells is the most efficient way to find the true ratings of cells.

I do agree to an extent with testing a pack. There are alot of places with shotty pack build quality. Below is a write up I did a while back. This is how I have built packs from the beginning. Still build them that way. In fact... I have a couple more to build today, I will take a couple pics to show build quality. I will let you decide.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147792

 

[binaryterror]

I was not trying to imply yours were bad...but seeing you've already found trickery on C numbers some of us ok with the trickery might freak when they find build quality issues to boot!

I bought a few packs from you a good while back when lipos hit the minis...looks like at 3 for the price of 1 TP 850 I was using I get 3 of yours...no more fence for me definitely be trying those out. Plus they appear to be 52mm over 62mm which helps me out with fitment in my current chassis set up.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

... some of us ok with the trickery might freak when they find build quality issues to boot

Sounds like I have a market opening for some quality constructed "150C" packs. :lmao:


Why would you be OK with trickery?

 

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Why would you be OK with trickery?

x2?

False C ratings are like a used car salesman selling a car he turned back the odometer on....

Especially on the prices you pay for some of these packs.


I feel either:

A. If the pack is not the best performing pack in the world, and is maybe only a 10-15C... Fine, Call it a 10-15C pack. No one is going to get pissed if you pack performs as claimed

B. Take the time to get cells and test them to ensure they are as you are rating them. Otherwise, don't call them what you're calling them.


Doesn't seem that hard to me. But maybe I am missing something. I guess honesty never came too hard for me. And I don't need to make money that bad, to where I can't sleep at night...

 

[jcboof]

Why would you be OK with trickery?

I think that some people might be "brand loyal"

I've ran CBP packs before and TP and Hyperion and Max Amps. All 4 brands have served me well. Some people get caught up in the "c" hype, I just want the packs to work well. I'm currently running TP's and Hyperions. Ill have to pick up a few Elites now, I'm sure they are every bit as good as they are rated.

 

[binaryterror]

I say "ok" with it because well most us us can't or don't know how to test C rating and therefore have to assume things and trust people. Until this post with results its been more just talk and I for one don't believe talk without proof, thats just simple opinion.

 

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Some people get caught up in the "c" hype,

C rating is only really "Hype" if the packs aren't as rated. This is a battle I have been fighting for years. I do understand wanting a pack that works. But think of this. If all the packs a guy has used, have been junk, but were claimed to be the shizzz... Then he would think the crappy packs are awesome. When in reality he paid too much for them, and there is much better out there... And cheaper.


So If you went to a car dealership, bought a new sports car that was rated at 300hp, but they really only put in a 200hp motor, you wouldn't be mad? You paid for that extra 100hp that you were shorted. Seems to me, you should get what you are paying for, and what's advertised.


It's not a matter of having the best, it's a matter of getting what you paid for, and what the pack is being called. Otherwise, it is a lie, and to some extent or another, you have been scammed.

But maybe that's just me. I surely want to get what I pay for, and told I was getting.

Until this post with results its been more just talk and I for one don't believe talk without proof, thats just simple opinion.

We have been preaching this for years to our customers. We, for many years, put graphs on our site proving our ratings. Not many companies do that. I have always had 2 policies with my customers. A: A nothing to hide policy. That is why 99% of the packs I make are in clear shrink. Because I am proud of our build quality, and there is nothing to hide. The customers entitled to know everything about the pack he bought. B: Performance guarantee. On out higher end Elite product, I guarantee it to be as good or better than all the other stuff out there. Even the lower C and capacity stuff kicks ass.


Our products speak for themselves. Plain and simple. Maybe our name might scare people away. But if our packs, and the Elite brand of packs, are good enough to hold world records, Be recommended daily from most of Castle Creations employees, used in military applications, University robotic tournaments, medical equipment, and thousands of other non RC applications. I am sure that the batteries I sell are good.

 

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Here ya go binaryterror.

Just as I build em. I am actually going to run a discharge on this one today, before I give it to the customer, and post a graph as a whole pack.

Soldered together.

Wired

Ready for the customer.

 

[Rig Rocker]

Beautiful "thumbsup"

 

[kmnss]

Great writeup. I've been using the Zippy Rhino packs for about a year and a half now without problems. After seeing this, I know where I'll be buying my next set of batteries from.

 

[Shot-N-The Dark]

Thank you Chris.. very informative thread.

 

[BigSki]

Thanks for the thread and all of the 'proof' work, it backs up what I have always suspected about brand 'P'.. that they are the Budwiser of the LiPo world- they spend big $$ on advertising to convince you that they make the best and then over charge for total rubbish!

I purchased one of their LiPos a year ago and it is the ONLY LiPo that has ever given me any issues, I even had better performance from some el-cheapos I got from Heli-direct.

 

[fa1rch1ld]

Very interesting reading....If you have the time, I would love to see other brands
tested....Like Hyperion...There claimed 45c ratings.

 

[jcboof]

C rating is only really "Hype" if the packs aren't as rated. This is a battle I have been fighting for years. I do understand wanting a pack that works. But think of this. If all the packs a guy has used, have been junk, but were claimed to be the shizzz... Then he would think the crappy packs are awesome. When in reality he paid too much for them, and there is much better out there... And cheaper.


So If you went to a car dealership, bought a new sports car that was rated at 300hp, but they really only put in a 200hp motor, you wouldn't be mad? You paid for that extra 100hp that you were shorted. Seems to me, you should get what you are paying for, and what's advertised.


It's not a matter of having the best, it's a matter of getting what you paid for, and what the pack is being called. Otherwise, it is a lie, and to some extent or another, you have been scammed.

But maybe that's just me. I surely want to get what I pay for, and told I was getting.

Not sure if you mis-interpreted what I stated, or if I am mis-interpreting what your response is.


What I was stating about the "C" Hype, is that some people are willing to go out and buy the highest "C" pack that they can find, and say that it is the BEST. Just like the guys who say the Rooster is the best crawling esc there is. Its because they just don't know better. I know from experience that some lower "C" rated packs will outperform higher "C" rated packs. I take ratings as a grain of salt because I have no way of actually testing them unless I use some sort of carbon pile device to load the packs and measure the voltage. High end batteries should put the time and testing into their packs to ensure that they are the highest quality possible. Sometimes I rely on that illusion when ordering my parts. Now we can see there is a difference in the ratings and the actual tests to back it up. I'm gonna order up some of your batteries and see how they compare to what I'm currently running. If they perform as well or better in the real world. I'll sell all my others and order exclusively from you!"thumbsup"

I base my knowledge about "C" ratings on what works. Plain and simple. I can normally tell a punch difference in packs that I run. The new 45C Hyperion packs that I just got don't feel quite as Punchy as my 45C TP packs.

I wasn't arguing or stating that "C" ratings have nothing to do with a battery or that it was just some type of gimmick. Just that if a battery with a high "C" rating performs the way that I expect it to, I'm happy. "thumbsup"