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Why go brushless?

I would challenge anyone running BL w/ a decent ESC to simply try a handwound. i'd bet you'd never go back


Nice handwounds do have their place, the feel is so good. I have a few brushless prototypes that have made me switch back to brushless though. In a few months I have a feeling people may be going back to brushless again. Like a merry go round :ror: When Eddie unveils his motors I bet the brushed game will step up again, so I will have to try them too 8)
 
this isnt a Brushed vs BL pros and cons.
its about crawling. wedge thatrig into a tight spot where its all bound up, likley the integy BL will be a glitchy stop and go , where my Warrior can will move the rock or break the truck trying.

you may have been in the hobby for 15 years, but 15 years ago guys were putting drill morors in their crawlers that were scratch built.

in a crawler like a berg, bully, axial etc. hand wond, brushed motors in conjunction w/ an excellent ESC like a CC or HH TourqueMaster, will give you an unrivialed smoothness, throttle control, and tourque.

I would challenge anyone running BL w/ a decent ESC to simply try a handwound. i'd bet you'd never go back

I thought the discussion was the pros and cons of brushless vs. brushed in crawling applications. I will apologize if there was any misunderstanding, but I posted to show that I indeed have tried a brushless setup, albeit a cheap one, and compared it to what I have previously run in my SCX10 crawler. I haven't tried a high end brushless system...yet, so I have yet to make a definitive argument for myself about which is superior; merely making an assumption or a conclusion that if the cheap Integy, sensorless system works as it does, then surely a sensored system with a nicer ESC costing 3X as much will work better--how much better or whether it's worth the cost is another argument.

As it stands, I've only driven shaft-type crawlers and that my 10 year old Tekin with 10 year old handwound 30-turn spec motor still is smoother than my brand new Integy is testament to just how much more refined brushed--especially handwound systems--are compared to the relatively new brushless setups. I also remember that 10 to 12 years ago, I paid the same amount for said Tekin ESC and handwound motor as I did for the Integy setup today. That said, I make that case, that at least for the application that I currently use it,scale crawling, the difference is so small in terms of precision and driveability, that though I am not willing to recommend the Integy setup for everyone, I WILL recommend that people at least seek out someone that has one and try it out for themselves.

P.S. I have a Holmes Hobbies handwound on order to see what I'm missing. The only other handwounds that I've stuck in my crawlers is a 15 quad, 16 triple, and 13 double, all of which are WAY too fast and can't be geared down enough for me to just not launch the SCX10 into orbit.
 
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I work at A Main Hobbies, I have a question for a customer (and I am very curious):
what are the benefits of going brushless in a crawler? and What are you guys running as far as brushless motors?
(I've read that the high KV brushless motors just cogg, or get jumpy.)


It's nice to see an Rc Hobby supplier employee interested in "Really" helping customers out. "thumbsup"

It appears your question has been answered, no need for my opinion here cause I agree with most everyone else...

Props, Missy...
 
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Well I have a question. Those of you running a brushless motor...are you on a shafty or an MOA? Is there a dual brushless setup for the MOA crowd? Most everyone in this thread (who is running brushless) has an Axial.

For a Shafty, i can kinda see why one would put in a BL set up. But for the MOA people that seems like A LOT of coin to put into a drive system. Can you even run a dual brushless setup? I have seen dual brushed set ups for sale EVERYWHERE.
 
I've saw some brushless MOA Losi's, I think in a berg or bully room for the longer motors and sensor wire might be an issue along with cost.

After my sensor wire died (silver 18.5 Novak, non-replaceable) I bought a slightly used 45t Tekin yesterday morning to see what all the brushed hype was all about. First thoughts were lame, fawkin lame, torque was down and wheelspeed took a huge hit, dragbrake didn't feel as strong on 10 as brushless did on 4. I expected to lose the wheelspeed, but had expected to gain torque, not lose it. There was something about the lowend feel of the brushed that was better, I wouldn't call it smoother but it seemed easier to follow a line, unless that line required a bump of power, then I was screwed cause the power wasn't there. I picked up a 3s pack at lunch and ran it for the afternoon, the extra voltage put the torque and wheelspeed about equal to the 18.5 on 2s. I'm gonna pratice and comp for a while with this setup before I ditch it, but long term I see me going back to a 18.5 with a 13mm rotor on 3s or a 14mm on 4s to put down some real power and gain a little more wheelspeed.
 
I've saw some brushless MOA Losi's, I think in a berg or bully room for the longer motors and sensor wire might be an issue along with cost.

After my sensor wire died (silver 18.5 Novak, non-replaceable) I bought a slightly used 45t Tekin yesterday morning to see what all the brushed hype was all about. First thoughts were lame, fawkin lame, torque was down and wheelspeed took a huge hit, dragbrake didn't feel as strong on 10 as brushless did on 4. I expected to lose the wheelspeed, but had expected to gain torque, not lose it. There was something about the lowend feel of the brushed that was better, I wouldn't call it smoother but it seemed easier to follow a line, unless that line required a bump of power, then I was screwed cause the power wasn't there. I picked up a 3s pack at lunch and ran it for the afternoon, the extra voltage put the torque and wheelspeed about equal to the 18.5 on 2s. I'm gonna pratice and comp for a while with this setup before I ditch it, but long term I see me going back to a 18.5 with a 13mm rotor on 3s or a 14mm on 4s to put down some real power and gain a little more wheelspeed.

Which Tekin? The Blue, handwound or the regular black can motor?
 
The black regular, but after driving a couple packs on my home pile just now the torque is still down on 3s compared to the 2s brushless, I don't see a handwound that cost nearly as much as a brushless motor making enough torque difference to equal the brushless at the same voltage. Min wheelspeed is the only advantage I've saw compared to brushless yet and it comes with healthy power loss.
 
I started with a Brushless 1008kv on my scale shafty, but had control issues with my Mamba max so I went to a 55t brushed but it easily overheated and I killed two motors. Caslte creations did some revisions and I updated my firmware and now my Brushless is Awesome ! just about as good as my berg with twin 55t motors.

Depends on setup I guess
 
W/ guys like John, the warrior team, and companies like castle, tekkin, etc all on the case,

I can honestly say that there will mos def be a time where BL motors are crawler specific and work just as well if not beter than brushed, with all the BL advantages.

I just dont feel that I have seen that, or much close to that yet.
 
The black regular, but after driving a couple packs on my home pile just now the torque is still down on 3s compared to the 2s brushless, I don't see a handwound that cost nearly as much as a brushless motor making enough torque difference to equal the brushless at the same voltage. Min wheelspeed is the only advantage I've saw compared to brushless yet and it comes with healthy power loss.

p1011222.jpg


p1011223.jpg


there is a big difference from regular to handwound
the 35t is a handwound team brood
the 45t is a regular integy
 
You using amp steps or torque steps?

In a crawler, there is a lot of other stuff that factors in besides power. I mean, sure I can slap a 7t in a crawler, will give you all the power ya want.....it's trying to get the balance between all the specs to give you the best of all worlds.

I find it funny one our hand wounds at 35t is producing more torque than a 45t which should produce more....

One of these days, i will have to test integy, novak, etc stuff against mine....mighty even be funny to just show how much one our arms can change a integy can/endbell. I used to have a dyno sheet on that some where....

Later EddieO
 
So what are the brushless set ups for an MOA? And what about a shafty? For a shafty, I suppose just about any sensored brushless motor would do. I am totally confused about the "turns" and "torque steps" i'm to new to EP.
 
I've ordered two 21.5t LRP's X12 with two speed passion lpf 2.0 ESC on my berg . I'll tell you if it goes alright although I don't see why not .
I think the torques steps were only referring to the chart he got from testing . An electric motor will have a mountain shaped curve for torque (best acceleration in the middle rpm range = best efficiency) . Where as a petrol engine is pretty constant for torque so the best efficiency is at the top rpm .
As far as know I mainly run sensored brushless systems and it just wipes out totally brushed in any direction except price . More efficient (more autonomy), more power , less maintenance , wider rpm range , it can go slower , more torque ...
The only BL system I was unhappy was because of lack of feeling/control and was cogging ... it was a castle creation 6800kv system sensorless (and that's my problem source ...). So for me it's BL sensored if you have the money.
 
Yeah, i have the 1/18 version of that motor. It coggs all the time. Freakin' sucks. Could you ( or someone) gimme a link to a sensored one? I'd like to do some reading about the topic. I'm assuming the sensor part "knows" where the rotor is at all times? So no cogging issues would occur.
 
I've been selling br00d motors for two weeks now! Jp will get his first shipment of warriors next week....PM me for motors:)

Still working on the new motor designs. My mill is getting hooked up this weekend, so I will start pumping out prototypes of the new motor not long after that.....hopefully.

Later EddieO
 
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