out4crawlin
Pebble Pounder
EddieO, how much would you want for a winding kit?
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winding a motor
- Thread starter JohnRobHolmes
- Start date
EddieO
I wanna be Dave
I dunno, there was never much interest in them.....
The problem mainly is that you are still stuck without a way to balance the arm.....static balance does not work, I don't care what anyone says on the matter. At best static balancing an arm is like putting a bandaid on a gun shot wound....you will end up with a motor that runs a lot below its potential.
Very few people have irons that can get hot enough for the proper solder job....
Later EddieO
The problem mainly is that you are still stuck without a way to balance the arm.....static balance does not work, I don't care what anyone says on the matter. At best static balancing an arm is like putting a bandaid on a gun shot wound....you will end up with a motor that runs a lot below its potential.
Very few people have irons that can get hot enough for the proper solder job....
Later EddieO
out4crawlin
Pebble Pounder
Okay, i understand what you mean.
About how many degrees Farenheit, and how many watts does the soldering iron need to be? I have a hakko 936, but forgot how many watts it is.
About how many degrees Farenheit, and how many watts does the soldering iron need to be? I have a hakko 936, but forgot how many watts it is.
TEDROCKZ
I wanna be Dave
To add to it. Balancers err not cheap and hard to find. Been looking for one for a while. One to to all motors,all sizes, 3 segs and 5segs(which do not balance on the Hiens stuff.). Don't how many builders even can balance "all" types of arms.
An airplane prop balancer won't cut it...would be cheaper... but won't do it
An airplane prop balancer won't cut it...would be cheaper... but won't do it
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out4crawlin
Pebble Pounder
I got a tire balancer too, but it wouldnt even be close. I have been looking for a balancer also.
EddieO
I wanna be Dave
While I've seen a Hakko actually get some solder on the comm, it failed not long after.
We, along with a lot of the other companies, used the big Marroon colored Weller. Thing is only like 75 watts if memory serves correct....the thing is a beast though.....the tip itself is like as thick as a roll of dimes.....you are trying to apply a LOT Of heat to a decent size area, so a big iron is needed.
The flux is acid based too......so clean up is a must. The solder is special stuff that has more silver in it and has a higher melting point.....
Later EddieO
We, along with a lot of the other companies, used the big Marroon colored Weller. Thing is only like 75 watts if memory serves correct....the thing is a beast though.....the tip itself is like as thick as a roll of dimes.....you are trying to apply a LOT Of heat to a decent size area, so a big iron is needed.
The flux is acid based too......so clean up is a must. The solder is special stuff that has more silver in it and has a higher melting point.....
Later EddieO
out4crawlin
Pebble Pounder
Thanks for all of the information
I would really like to wind some motors in the future, and im gunna keep a look out for a balancer... eventhough i will probly never find a used one. lol
I would really like to wind some motors in the future, and im gunna keep a look out for a balancer... eventhough i will probly never find a used one. lol
EddieO
I wanna be Dave
Well, if you have $2000+ to spend on one......I am sure I can find ya one if you want it that bad....
I charge $5 an arm to balance...........so, you can have me do about 400 arms for 2k
Later EddieO
I charge $5 an arm to balance...........so, you can have me do about 400 arms for 2k
Later EddieO
out4crawlin
Pebble Pounder
Not right now, but in about 4 or 5 years i will have that much to spend on just a balancer.
And ill deffinately keep you in mind when i need some arms balanced"thumbsup"
And ill deffinately keep you in mind when i need some arms balanced"thumbsup"
TEDROCKZ
I wanna be Dave
Eddie, what would said kits consist of? Would a kit be a certain motor specific(# of winds or arm type)) or cover a range of stuff.
EddieO
I wanna be Dave
The idea with the kit, would be a bottle of flux, some solder, and epoxy....wire and arm blanks would be sold separate, as you would need to buy more of those each time you did an arm......where as the flux, solder, and epoxy would last a bit....
Later EddieO
Later EddieO
out4crawlin
Pebble Pounder
You would be seling the wire and arms tho right?
Any idea for pricing on a kit, and arms & wire?
That is if you decided to sell that stuff.
Any idea for pricing on a kit, and arms & wire?
That is if you decided to sell that stuff.
EddieO
I wanna be Dave
Arm and Wire would probably be around $12 or so.....
The kit for flux, solder, epoxy......I would guess, about $25-$30.....but it would be more than enough to do multiple armatures....
Just kinda guessing though, as I would have to math it all up. Epoxy would be the big point for that kit, as I would have to get a more user friendly epoxy.......and I am not sure on the cost of it.....
Later EddieO
The kit for flux, solder, epoxy......I would guess, about $25-$30.....but it would be more than enough to do multiple armatures....
Just kinda guessing though, as I would have to math it all up. Epoxy would be the big point for that kit, as I would have to get a more user friendly epoxy.......and I am not sure on the cost of it.....
Later EddieO
out4crawlin
Pebble Pounder
Sounds good to me.
Im trying to finish up my berg now, but if you make the kits available in time i would buy one.
Im trying to finish up my berg now, but if you make the kits available in time i would buy one.
Seems like it would be more cost effective to offer the epoxy dip, bake, and balance as part of the deal. If you are using a two part epoxy, it may not have enough mass with a small batch to start the initial cure. If it is a one part epoxy it will be a pretty big pain for an inexperienced user to do it right without making a mess or ruining the kitchen oven.
Ever use 97% lead Eddie?
Ever use 97% lead Eddie?
out4crawlin
Pebble Pounder
I wound a 32 turn last night, it works pretty good. 13,000 rpm.
On what voltage and timing? 540?
EddieO
I wanna be Dave
I've tried many different types of solder......stuff we used towards the end of the racing days, was this stuff that was $300 a roll......I don't remember the specs on it, but its the same crap Orion used on the team arms. Curtis from DC got it for me, but like normal pulled the sticker off. I am sure I could of figured it out back then, but I didn't care because I was getting it......I have the same stuff Reedy uses, along with what Fantom used at one point. Had the Trinity type, but ran out of it....a big concern I still have is that very people even with the right solder/flux will have the proper iron to solder it.....
The DC stuff was by far the best......back then, I didn't care about what shit cost, I just wanted to WIN at all costs.
As for the Epoxy, its gonna be a pain regardless.....I'd say offering a bake, balance, etc service is an option, which I've done for a few guys before....at that point though, I might as well weld/solder it for them too. I've found that a number of guys winding their own stuff honestly think they can balance it themselves or that it doesn't matter....
I guess it gets to a point where I might as well just sell them an armature of mine....
Later EddieO
The DC stuff was by far the best......back then, I didn't care about what shit cost, I just wanted to WIN at all costs.
As for the Epoxy, its gonna be a pain regardless.....I'd say offering a bake, balance, etc service is an option, which I've done for a few guys before....at that point though, I might as well weld/solder it for them too. I've found that a number of guys winding their own stuff honestly think they can balance it themselves or that it doesn't matter....
I guess it gets to a point where I might as well just sell them an armature of mine....
Later EddieO
Agreed. With the tooling costs amount of practice it takes some to learn a pattern wind, it is typically worth it to just have the armature already built.
But for those that just want to do it, a decent enough job can be done to have their own motor. The difference is in the cost and performance of the motor. Store bought epoxy thinned out, 60/40 solder, and low cost wire can still get the job done.
But for those that just want to do it, a decent enough job can be done to have their own motor. The difference is in the cost and performance of the motor. Store bought epoxy thinned out, 60/40 solder, and low cost wire can still get the job done.
EddieO
I wanna be Dave
It can, for me it just becomes a decision of how much I want to be involved with it. Keeping up with orders is hard enough as it is....hence a bit of my reluctance to dive into an area with limited market and the potential for problems......
One thing I have encountered with it is scratched wire.....I balanced 5 arms for a guy, who did a pretty good job winding, soldering them and the epoxy job....but, it his process of winding them without the proper fixture he scratched the wire......4 of the 5 arms were shorted out.....he of course blamed me, claiming I must of scratched them during the balancing process.....I tried to explain to him, that its not possible.....I even show him his scratches had to be inside the winds....not to mention scratching them after epoxy doesn't do much......he didn't care. Full paypal protest and blamed me.........I sent him 5 team brood arms, 5 new blank arms and some wire.......lesson learned.
Though, one of the fast armatures I have ever seen was built by a local guy who worked at Fluke.......he got some arms from me back in the day....wound them himself, used JB weld to epoxy them (very messy)....had his own solder and such at work......all we did was balance them. Most of them turned out so so, but he had a 15 AWG 7t that was a BULLET on the track. We actually took it to the Vegas race......it blew up during practice though, as I think the JB weld failed and it came out of balance (bad news at 60k RPM).
Later EddieO
One thing I have encountered with it is scratched wire.....I balanced 5 arms for a guy, who did a pretty good job winding, soldering them and the epoxy job....but, it his process of winding them without the proper fixture he scratched the wire......4 of the 5 arms were shorted out.....he of course blamed me, claiming I must of scratched them during the balancing process.....I tried to explain to him, that its not possible.....I even show him his scratches had to be inside the winds....not to mention scratching them after epoxy doesn't do much......he didn't care. Full paypal protest and blamed me.........I sent him 5 team brood arms, 5 new blank arms and some wire.......lesson learned.
Though, one of the fast armatures I have ever seen was built by a local guy who worked at Fluke.......he got some arms from me back in the day....wound them himself, used JB weld to epoxy them (very messy)....had his own solder and such at work......all we did was balance them. Most of them turned out so so, but he had a 15 AWG 7t that was a BULLET on the track. We actually took it to the Vegas race......it blew up during practice though, as I think the JB weld failed and it came out of balance (bad news at 60k RPM).
Later EddieO
