WTF ....250K = Corporate Jet?????

[Duuuuuuuude]

No one said it was easy, that's kind of the point.

Yup. Thats why 99% of the population aren't millionaires. "thumbsup"

 

[sloppy]

If your son had not been able to find a job would you have stopped feeding, clothing, and housing him? Would he also have gotten the "jack shit go starve" speach?

I will let you know in 6 month's

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

I will let you know in 6 month's

:ror:

 

[CmdrZod]

The only thing that could turn it all around is if someone comes and invests money by starting or expanding a business. There has been a little of that here, but not much, certainly not enough.

And what kind of incentive do these "Fat cat millionaire jet owners" have? At the moment, not much. Due to the fact that the gov't wants to tax them for everything... Big businesses need reasons to stay, IE Tax breaks. Now before you go all left wing liberal on me, just think in your own house and how you plan just even a shopping trip to the grocery store. I know in my house we look at the sunday ads and see who has the sales and best deal on the items that we need for the week. Then we shop there, its the same thing with big businesses they look at the bottom line, is that such a bad thing, if they can save billions by moving over seas cause some tree hugging left winger wants all there profits... bon voiage.

You will not become a millionaire or billionaire just because you work hard or get an education, or even be innovative. If it were that easy everyone would be doing it. You have to talk the right people out of the right amount of money at the right time repeatedly to achieve that kind of monetary success. You also have to know how to work the system, and at some point put ethics aside momentarily and focus on the dollars. A good bit of luck will also go a long ways.

Ummmm... Bill Gates comes to mind, if I remember correctly from my intro to computers class in college, he started Microsoft in his garage. Yes I am sure that he got to were he is today by other people but that is called Investment. Which is a good thing, when done correctly it helps both parties involved and ultimately helps the rest of the nation.

So you can continue to try and change minds and say that your guy is better than my guy or your way is better than mine. But the fact of the matter is, is that gov't is too big and it needs to be down sized. Call it Tea party, call it right wing, call it what you will but we all know that when August comes around and there is no budget and the gov't shuts down, we will all know what is really "Necessary" for the country to function. We in Minnesota are currently dealing with this issue, the state shut down at midnight last night, just because the two sides cant agree and our governor is to set in his left wing tax and spend ways to realize that this all could have been avoided. Both sides actually agreed on appropriations bills its just the governor won't agree to a budget unless there is more revenue.
You are always bringing in home life to your arguments, like the guy that wants his son to get a job, well do you refuse to work just because you can't get the raise that you want? Or since you didn't get that raise, did you just stop buying things or look for ways to minimize your expenditures?

I am done, I may or may not be looking for a reply. (flip flop) :lmao: Either way, this is all I have to say on the subject. You can put your spin on it all you want and pull up pie charts and graphs and obscure web documents all you want, I will still believe what I believe and you too will believe what you believe and that is what makes this country great. "thumbsup"

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

And what kind of incentive do these "Fat cat millionaire jet owners" have? Then we shop there, its the same thing with big businesses they look at the bottom line, is that such a bad thing, if they can save billions by moving over seas cause some tree hugging left winger wants all there profits... bon voiage.

You would think that at some point the people who gained their success in this nation because of the system we have would feel a little bit patriotic about it and try to keep jobs here.

Taxation on corporations is not that bad here in the US. There are only 4 or 5 nations ahead of us that would offer some relief in that aspect. The reason they aren't all flocking there to save .5% is because wages over there are nearly comparable to ours.

Its kinda funny to me how taxing the mega corps kills jobs, but not caring that ceo's and cfo's are taking home tens of millions. That is a shit ton of jobs being jammed into just a few peoples bank accounts.

Ummmm... Bill Gates comes to mind, if I remember correctly from my intro to computers class in college, he started Microsoft in his garage. Yes I am sure that he got to were he is today by other people but that is called Investment. Which is a good thing, when done correctly it helps both parties involved and ultimately helps the rest of the nation.

Like I said, the right idea at the right time in the right place and with the right people. Many good ideas are brought to fruition in garages and apartments and basements, and many are lost because things just couldn't come together. Had Gates been born a few years earlier or later, or had he lived in a different town, he might be just another working stiff like the rest of us. Throughout history there have been many inventions that were so far ahead of their time that no one knew what to do with them, and so they kinda faded away.

So you can continue to try and change minds and say that your guy is better than my guy or your way is better than mine. But the fact of the matter is, is that gov't is too big and it needs to be down sized. Call it Tea party, call it right wing, call it what you will but we all know that when August comes around and there is no budget and the gov't shuts down, we will all know what is really "Necessary" for the country to function. We in Minnesota are currently dealing with this issue, the state shut down at midnight last night, just because the two sides cant agree and our governor is to set in his left wing tax and spend ways to realize that this all could have been avoided. Both sides actually agreed on appropriations bills its just the governor won't agree to a budget unless there is more revenue.

I have no guy, and I am and always have been in full agreement that the government has gotten way too big and costly. What concerns me about its downsizing is that in our present economic state, we really don't need more unemployed people. Sure there are some that can easily find jobs in the private sector, but there are a bunch that won't. A small tax increase will help cushion that. Hell, make it across the board, I don't care as long as some action is made up on capitol hill.

You are always bringing in home life to your arguments, like the guy that wants his son to get a job, well do you refuse to work just because you can't get the raise that you want? Or since you didn't get that raise, did you just stop buying things or look for ways to minimize your expenditures?

Since I am self employed that is kind of a moot point, but if I felt I was not being payed fairly, yeah, I probably would refuse to work via finding another job.

I've always tried to live within my means. I don't go out shopping in anticipation of a raise or boost in my income. I know what I can spend and I stay within that limit. Have I come up short at times? You bet. I have no credit cards, no loans of any sort. I am also not wealthy by any means. Its really not that hard to do.

I am done, I may or may not be looking for a reply. (flip flop) :lmao: Either way, this is all I have to say on the subject. You can put your spin on it all you want and pull up pie charts and graphs and obscure web documents all you want, I will still believe what I believe and you too will believe what you believe and that is what makes this country great. "thumbsup"

I welcome your input. And yeah, those pie charts are getting a little haggard, aren't they? :ror:

 

[rock hard]

The key word is "corporate", which in this context means "belonging to the corporation", which is different than "personal", which means "belonging to the person".

sole propriator....it could belong to the person and still belong to the buisness
Its also important to note that the corporations that are supposed to uphold their part in the "trickle down economics" plan are not doing so.

Thats your opinion....which as I recall you said once that people use or want more than they need....

so do you have cheap pos motors in your crawler,or do you have handwounds?If you have handwounds then why???cant you get the satisfaction of crawling your truck just as well with just cheap machine wound motors....

Its simply your opinion they dont do thier part.
But IMO every time they hand out a paycheck...some of thier money is trickling down to the little guys like me.

 

[rock hard]

You would think that at some point the people who gained their success in this nation because of the system we have would feel a little bit patriotic about it and try to keep jobs here.


Alot of companies are contrlled by boards,trustees,they vote to do what is in the best interest of the company/stock holders........

Taxation on corporations is not that bad here in the US. There are only 4 or 5 nations ahead of us that would offer some relief in that aspect. The reason they aren't all flocking there to save .5% is because wages over there are nearly comparable to ours.

.5% on $1 isnt bad IMO but if it was my money and we was talking about a number more like 5,000,000 then I might say an additional .5% sux

Its kinda funny to me how taxing the mega corps kills jobs, but not caring that ceo's and cfo's are taking home tens of millions. That is a shit ton of jobs being jammed into just a few peoples bank accounts.

It does,it takes money from them they could have used to expand,and its not just the MEGA corps that get hit with higher taxes



Like I said, the right idea at the right time in the right place and with the right people. Many good ideas are brought to fruition in garages and apartments and basements, and many are lost because things just couldn't come together. Had Gates been born a few years earlier or later, or had he lived in a different town, he might be just another working stiff like the rest of us. Throughout history there have been many inventions that were so far ahead of their time that no one knew what to do with them, and so they kinda faded away.



I have no guy, and I am and always have been in full agreement that the government has gotten way too big and costly. What concerns me about its downsizing is that in our present economic state, we really don't need more unemployed people. Sure there are some that can easily find jobs in the private sector, but there are a bunch that won't. A small tax increase will help cushion that. Hell, make it across the board, I don't care as long as some action is made up on capitol hill.
Its kinda funny to me how taxing the mega corps kills jobs, but not caring that ceo's and cfo's are taking home tens of millions. That is a shit ton of jobs being jammed into just a few peoples bank accounts.


wrong,a small tax increase will hurt us little guys,a big tax cut will help though.Cut the taxes on my boss and he will hire more,and advertise more

raise his taxes and he will have to advertise less which will mean less work for me= it hurts the little guy

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

so do you have cheap pos motors in your crawler,or do you have handwounds?If you have handwounds then why???cant you get the satisfaction of crawling your truck just as well with just cheap machine wound motors.

My comp crawler has a HH handwound, my Bronco runs the cheapest ones I can find.

Like anything else, I spend money where it will work the best and last the longest. If its something that I know will be destroyed and have to be replaced often, I go cheap. If its something that I want to reliably last a good deal of time without a lot of maintenance, I buy the good stuff. Spending money is not bad, but spending it poorly is.

Alot of companies are contrlled by boards,trustees,they vote to do what is in the best interest of the company/stock holders........

Exactly. They are motivated by profit. If they have to cut jobs to raise their market shares for their board of directors a few points, they will.

.5% on $1 isnt bad IMO but if it was my money and we was talking about a number more like 5,000,000 then I might say an additional .5% sux

I doubt if they'd even notice. Its not like at tax time they sit down at the kitchen table with a 1040ez and their W2's...

It does,it takes money from them they could have used to expand,and its not just the MEGA corps that get hit with higher taxes

Understood. Ask your boss when the last time he fired someone because his taxes were too high.

wrong,a small tax increase will hurt us little guys,a big tax cut will help though.Cut the taxes on my boss and he will hire more,and advertise more

If he needs to advertise, he will. If he needs to hire someone, he will. If his company is that important to him, and he needs to reduce his own pay to keep it afloat, he will. Look at the people that run big corporations. There are some that worked their way up the ladder in that company, many others are hired guns who are there to maximize profit and really don't give a shit about anything else.

I do not give myself a set amount of money from what my little business pulls in. I don't even add it all up until tax time. I advertise when its cost effective, I buy tools when I need them. I buy tires and gas and parts and insurance. I never think of profit or taxes or what I'm sending to the government until the first week of January. Year after year, those taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to everything else I spend money on to run my business.

 

[rock hard]

There is only so much money in one hand,doesnt matter if its a 50yr guy like
me,a 300,000yr guy like my boss,or a 1,000,000yr company like the one my dad works for. The more money that you are forced to pay in taxes out of that hand means less to invest back into the company,or give out in raises,or to advertise in a new area,or to hire another person.

Its that simple,and its a shame that so many people cant grasp that..
Taxing more,to spread it around will NEVER be as effective as allowing people and buisness keep thier money to help GROW the economy.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

300,000yr guy like my boss

Under the proposed plan he'll pay about $1500 more in taxes than he did last year, assuming thats the gross pay he gets from his company. If he's bringing that much home he's got a pretty damn good business going on.

That extra $1500 from his own personal paycheck is not enough to hire another person, buy a new work truck, advertise in another town (unless its a little newspaper ad), or add on to an existing building. That is just a tad bit more than $100 a month.

It costs me $100 a month to run a little 3 line ad in the local paper. If its a busy week, I'll spend twice that for fuel. $1500 a year really isn't much when you factor in all the costs of business.

 

[rock hard]

My comp crawler has a HH handwound, my Bronco runs the cheapest ones I can find.

Like anything else, I spend money where it will work the best and last the longest. If its something that I know will be destroyed and have to be replaced often, I go cheap. If its something that I want to reliably last a good deal of time without a lot of maintenance, I buy the good stuff. Spending money is not bad, but spending it poorly is.

What you consider poorly and what I or a buisness owner considers poorly may be WAY different.You are intitled to your opinion as are the rest of us,but your opinion should only affect YOUR spending habbits,not mine.

As otherwise I would say that if you consider my 40' boat to extravagant,and that I can get by with a smaller boat,then you can get by with a integy motor on your crawler....See its not really fair to tell someone how to spend,and if you take thier money and pass it around by way of taxes....you just spent thier money for them.

You,like anyone else spend your money how you WANT.Buisness is no different.This is america,so I may do things you disagree with,and you the same.But I dont have to live by your morals,or viseversa.

People and buisness owners who EARN thier profits deserve to keep them IMO. And IMO there is no good reason that I should have to pay a higher or lower % on each dollaer in taxes than the next person.

People who jump to consider that large buisness and people of weath are up to no good,or are not doing what is best for our country,or dont pay enough....are just being human,and as such are stereotypical as expected,and have a basic instict to blam someone else for thier lack of sucess IMO




Understood. Ask your boss when the last time he fired someone because his taxes were too high.

My boss is small,probably wouldnt fire anyone...but he has limited his advertising the last 2 summers..that means less work.
He usually will hire an extra crew this time of yr,but not yet under this pres.

So a penny saved in a dollar earned,and as such a job not created is a job lost.Let buisness keep more money and more jobs WILL be created.

 

[rock hard]

Under the proposed plan he'll pay about $1500 more in taxes than he did last year, assuming thats the gross pay he gets from his company. If he's bringing that much home he's got a pretty damn good business going on.

That extra $1500 from his own personal paycheck is not enough to hire another person, buy a new work truck, advertise in another town (unless its a little newspaper ad), or add on to an existing building. That is just a tad bit more than $100 a month.

It costs me $100 a month to run a little 3 line ad in the local paper. If its a busy week, I'll spend twice that for fuel. $1500 a year really isn't much when you factor in all the costs of business.

1500 is 1500....in a good economy its easier to absorb,this has NOT been a good economy,and 2 yrs in a row makes it even worse.Every $ you take from the ones who grow our economy by creating jobs hurts ALL americans in the long run.

So really see...its guys like you who want to tax the rich more who are hurting our country....see how everything is just a matter of preseption"thumbsup"

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

My boss is small,probably wouldnt fire anyone...but he has limited his advertising the last 2 summers..that means less work.
He usually will hire an extra crew this time of yr,but not yet under this pres.

So a penny saved in a dollar earned,and as such a job not created is a job lost.Let buisness keep more money and more jobs WILL be created.

And that is the great thing about small businesses. If you are an owner, and you deal with your employees face to face every single day, you tend to care about them (unless they're shitty employees) and do what you can to help the people that make your business grow. Even if it effects your bottom line. Owners like that will take a personal financial hit if they think it will keep one or two or three of their dedicated employees in their jobs long enough for business to pick back up. I worked for a guy like that 10 years ago, and even though the pay wasn't top notch and there wasn't any insurance, it was still my favorite place to work because I knew he gave a damn about his employees.

Big corporations don't do that. They look at numbers. If profits are down, people get fired or laid off. Services are restricted. Plants closed, factories moved. Never once will they look at their own paychecks and say "golly gosh, we could pay for the entire r&d departments yearly budget if we'd only take home $10m instead of $20m each. Lets do that and keep our employees working and our business moving forward!". Which is also the exact same thing our representatives do up on capitol hill. They get the kick ass paychecks and the awesome insurance while gouging everyone else around them to cut spending.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

1500 is 1500....in a good economy its easier to absorb,this has NOT been a good economy,and 2 yrs in a row makes it even worse.Every $ you take from the ones who grow our economy by creating jobs hurts ALL americans in the long run.

:ror:

So you are saying your $300k a year making boss is fretting over $100 a month? Tell him to start eating off the dollar menu at taco bell.

 

[rock hard]

And that is the great thing about small businesses. If you are an owner, and you deal with your employees face to face every single day, you tend to care about them (unless they're shitty employees) and do what you can to help the people that make your business grow. Even if it effects your bottom line. Owners like that will take a personal financial hit if they think it will keep one or two or three of their dedicated employees in their jobs long enough for business to pick back up. I worked for a guy like that 10 years ago, and even though the pay wasn't top notch and there wasn't any insurance, it was still my favorite place to work because I knew he gave a damn about his employees.

Big corporations don't do that. They look at numbers. If profits are down, people get fired or laid off. Services are restricted. Plants closed, factories moved. Never once will they look at their own paychecks and say "golly gosh, we could pay for the entire r&d departments yearly budget if we'd only take home $10m instead of $20m each. Lets do that and keep our employees working and our business moving forward!". Which is also the exact same thing our representatives do up on capitol hill. They get the kick ass paychecks and the awesome insurance while gouging everyone else around them to cut spending.

Notice I said he hasnt hired as he used to,we usually add another crew,thier is usually an extra girl in the office for the phones.
The taxes hurt,the lack of disposable money in the economy hurts its growth.The rich have the most disposable income,take it away and the economy contracts=no new jobs,possible jobs lost.
TX is a big state,we advertise on papper.1500 can buy small adds in several counties,or a larger add in one county that has more potentioal.Either way,take it from the earner....in this economy...its bad economics IMO


Its not by buisness how they run thier buisness...nor is it yours.And I dont feel like you that they dont do what is best for thier employees.However if a ceo has a contract for a certain amount each yr.Why should he take less,the little guys dont have a contract,they are hrly or salery.

That ceo,who you probably consider a bad person for not taking a pay cut...
well he probably has obligations he has already.based on his contract arrangmeny he can meet those obligations.If he takes a pay cut,he may go into the red.Rich ceo's often have lots of toys,those toys cost $$$$$

You like your crawlers,some people are not so fortunate to have rc's,thier income wony allow it,your does.

ceos income allows BIGGER and BETTER things.cabins in the mouontains,
planes,ect.They are well within thier right to haver thier toys,same as you
doesnt matter that thiers are more $$$ to maintain.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Its not by buisness how they run thier buisness...nor is it yours.And I dont feel like you that they dont do what is best for thier employees.However if a ceo has a contract for a certain amount each yr.Why should he take less,the little guys dont have a contract,they are hrly or salery.

That ceo,who you probably consider a bad person for not taking a pay cut...
well he probably has obligations he has already.based on his contract arrangmeny he can meet those obligations.If he takes a pay cut,he may go into the red.Rich ceo's often have lots of toys,those toys cost $$$$$

You like your crawlers,some people are not so fortunate to have rc's,thier income wony allow it,your does.

ceos income allows BIGGER and BETTER things.cabins in the mouontains,
planes,ect.They are well within thier right to haver thier toys,same as you
doesnt matter that thiers are more $$$ to maintain.

A multi million dollar CEO takes a paycut, or even loses his job, he has enough cushion to survive. All those toys he has can be sold. Boats, cars, vacation homes, all can fetch large amounts of cash to keep him alive and well.

A $10 an hour employee takes a paycut, or loses his job, he's fawked. There is no cushion, no accumulated wealth to sell off to pay the bills. Thats how homes are lost, cars are repossessed, and families are torn apart.

I do like my crawlers, but it has been a long process to have what I have and I chose my purchases carefully. If I had to replace even a single one of them today, I could not do it. Not even a shitty RTR.

 

[rock hard]

A multi million dollar CEO takes a paycut, or even loses his job, he has enough cushion to survive. All those toys he has can be sold. Boats, cars, vacation homes, all can fetch large amounts of cash to keep him alive and well.

A $10 an hour employee takes a paycut, or loses his job, he's fawked. There is no cushion, no accumulated wealth to sell off to pay the bills. Thats how homes are lost, cars are repossessed, and families are torn apart.

I do like my crawlers, but it has been a long process to have what I have and I chose my purchases carefully. If I had to replace even a single one of them today, I could not do it. Not even a shitty RTR.

:lmao:you are lost:lmao:

a ceo losses everything he can survive:ror:
but a poor guys cant:ror:

People who are wealthy are out on a limb just as bad as you.
You have obligations,they have obligations.Thier obligations are just more.

You loose your bass boat,they loose thier cabin cruiser,you loose a car,they loose 5.You loose your house,they loose all their houses.

Its hard for everyuone when times get bad,dont think the rich have it better iif they default:roll:

Those same homes lost,a families torn apart happen to the rich to buddy"thumbsup"

You are so negative to those who create the jobs.Look at moble,or exxon.
They dump HUGE amounts of money into the economy by way of JOBS alone.

My paychecks have always been signed my a man wealthier than me.They are not my enemy,nor an I jealouse,I sir am thankfull for thier innginuity and
desire to take 1 dollar and turn it into 1,000,thats what makes jobs.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

:lmao:you are lost:lmao:

a ceo losses everything he can survive:ror:
but a poor guys cant:ror:

People who are wealthy are out on a limb just as bad as you.
You have obligations,they have obligations.Thier obligations are just more.

You loose your bass boat,they loose thier cabin cruiser,you loose a car,they loose 5.You loose your house,they loose all their houses.

Its hard for everyuone when times get bad,dont think the rich have it better iif they default:roll:

Those same homes lost,a families torn apart happen to the rich to buddy"thumbsup"

You are so negative to those who create the jobs.Look at moble,or exxon.
They dump HUGE amounts of money into the economy by way of JOBS alone.

My paychecks have always been signed my a man wealthier than me.They are not my enemy,nor an I jealouse,I sir am thankfull for thier innginuity and
desire to take 1 dollar and turn it into 1,000,thats what makes jobs.

We'll say that the CEO has enough brains to live within his means, even with the cars, boat, cabin, and homes. Sure there will be some payments or mortages there, but the stuff should be nice enough to recoup some money from them if need be. They are investments after all. And then there are the actual investments, the stocks and bonds. Those guys usually get those as part of the deal. Those can always be cashed out.

The low wage guy doesn't have investments, even if he is living within his means. He's probably either driving a POS or making payments on something more suitable. Most likely renting wherever he's living. Probably not much in savings. Overall he actually owns very little.

Who's got a better chance at riding a little (or a lot of) unemployment out?

I will not disagree that it is tough right now. Nearly every business that I come into contact with is slow.

 

[rock hard]

We'll say that the CEO has enough brains to live within his means, even with the cars, boat, cabin, and homes. Sure there will be some payments or mortages there, but the stuff should be nice enough to recoup some money from them if need be. They are investments after all. And then there are the actual investments, the stocks and bonds. Those guys usually get those as part of the deal. Those can always be cashed out.

The low wage guy doesn't have investments, even if he is living within his means. He's probably either driving a POS or making payments on something more suitable. Most likely renting wherever he's living. Probably not much in savings. Overall he actually owns very little.

Who's got a better chance at riding a little (or a lot of) unemployment out?

I will not disagree that it is tough right now. Nearly every business that I come into contact with is slow.

true a poorer person will own less,but as such they can take a paycut and still livewithn thier measn...as they own nothing.
a person with lots on the line may loose more in the long run IMO

It sounds to me as if you begrudge those who have climbed the ladder,and have done well for themselfs.Its not thier fault others are poor,nor is it bad to be poor.Its not a crime yet to be rich,nor is it bad to be rich.

We all must live within our means or risk loosing it all.
If you eanr 12 yr and your happy with that then your good to go,but if you desire more then work harder,dress better,be more knowledgable about what you do and be courtious to thise around you,ect and you will be successfull.

Also to assume a ceo can dump his toys and dig out of debt is false statment IMO.A car,boat,truck will not fetch the same $ it would have 4 yrs ago.

If you sell in a good economhy you will likely get a little more,if you sell in a bad economy you get squat in comparison.

Look dude,you habe your opinion and ideas,maybe someday will will see that they are wrong,till then I'll continues to try to steer you in the right direction
when I have a chance,but thats the end of the lesson today."thumbsup"

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

true a poorer person will own less,but as such they can take a paycut and still livewithn thier measn...as they own nothing.
a person with lots on the line may loose more in the long run IMO

A person who owns nothing still has to pay for something.

I have no problem with people who have worked hard to earn what they have, I do have a problem with those that put their singular wealth above those that are merely trying to survive.

As far as taxes go, rates have been much, much higher and rich people were still rich. 30 years ago the tax rates for those making more than $250k was at 50%. Liberal tax and spend president, right?

Wrong.

Fact is, income tax rates haven't been this low since shortly after the stock market crash in the 20's. At its peak it was at 92%.