A Guide to Using Alternate Shocks on the Axial Ryft

[Panther6834]

First, and foremost...I'm hoping that others will not only "chime in" regarding the two alternate possibilities in providing, but will also add alternate aftermarket shock options they've discovered 'work'. Second, this is a fairly lengthy read, but could prove very well-worth reading, especially for those wanting to replace the Ryft's stock shocks with something else.

Disclaimer: I hope no responsibility if you damage your vehicle whole running non-stock shocks on the Ryft, or any other vehicles. Additionally, if any modifications are required, such as removing a portion of the chassis, cage, frame, etc, responsibility goes to the person performing said modifications.

Alrighty then (thank you, Jim Carrey)...now, time to switch things up. Like many who has problems with the shocks included in the Capra, there are those who've reported problems with the Ryft's shocks. Springdale, to several people have reported various 'quality control' issues with various aspects of the kit. Granted, I have not yet built my Ryft, but I did build the shocks, and I already ran into one problem (three are buttery-smooth, while one is anything but...I suspect one of the front shafts was already bent).

Like several others, I've been on a quest for alternatives...and, I think I might have come up with two of possibly the best alternative. Neither is "perfect" (at least, in implementation), but both should prove to be better (neither leaks, unlike (from what others have said) the stock shocks) options.

The first comes from RC4WD - the King shocks. For the front, you'd want the 120mm Dual Spring version (Z-D0067). For the rear, to troll want the Yeti XL 150mm version (Z-D0070). To match the stock rear shocks's 146mm length, simply add 4mm of internal limiters. As for the front, technically, they're 10mm shorter than stock, so good have two 'options' - run the front slightly lower than the rear, or add an additional 10mm of internal limiters to the rear shocks.

The second option...and, the PRIMARY reason I chose to create this thread...comes from Traxxas, in the form of their GTR shocks for the UDR. For this, I'll list the parts, as you might need to make some changes, depending on which sub-option you prefer to go with.

Starting with the rear, there area three possible ways to create 146mm shocks. The first is to use #8461, which is a 160mm shock, and add 14mm of internal limiters. The second option would be to take the previously-mentioned 160mm shock, and replace the 77mm shock body with either of the 64mm shock bodies (#8452 (threaded)/#8453 (non-threaded)), which would shorten the 160mm shock to 134mm...exactly the same length as the Ryft's stock rear shocks. And, finally, the third would be to take either #8450 (threaded), or #8451 (non-threaded), and replace the 69mm shaft with the 81mm shaft (#8464) normally found in the 160mm shock. This, in turn, would lengthen the 8450/8451 shock, from 134mm to 146mm...again, the same length as the Ryft's stock rear shocks.

Technically, options 2 & 3, as described above, produce exactly the same results. The only reason I presented both "build x configurations is because some LHSs might have the shorter shocks & longer shafts in-stock, while other LHSs might have the longer shocks & shorter shock bodies in-stock. If your LHS has all the parts, go with whichever costs less...again, the end-result of either is EXACTLY the same.

However, there IS a difference between the first option, and the other two options - while the extended lengths are the same, the compressed lengths are different, and there's one considerable advantage & disadvantage to each. By going with the 160mm shock, and adding the internal limiters, you lose (disadvantage) 2mm of articulation over the 2nd & 3rd options. At the same time, due to the larger volume, the oil in the shocks will remain cooler (advantage) than the shocks from the 2nd & 3rd options. As for the 2nd & 3rd options, the same advantage/disadvantage applies, but are swapped...you have 2mm extra articulation, but higher temp shock oil due to lower volume.

With whichever of these three options you consider trying, know that they should all fit equally well as the stock shocks, and no modifications to the Ryft should be needed. I purposely didn't bring up springs, as that will be a personal preference to each individual. However, one point I will mention is this - sure to the shortening of the shocks, it's probably advisable to lower the intended spring rate by 1-2 choices.

Now, we move to the front shocks. This should be extremely easy...but, there IS the possibility that a cage modification could be needed (I'm waiting for actual testing/report from JDM74, who will be treating 'fitment', as he happens to have a pair of the shocks, and is currently building his Ryft). First, the shocks in question - as with one of the rear options, here, you'd also use either #8450 (threaded) or #8451 (non-threaded), adding 4mm of internal limiters, shortening them to the same 130mm as the stock shocks...and, that's it.

Well...possibly not quite. This is where I see a possible (but, hopefully, minor) "problem". This is where JDM74's testing will come into play. I'm suspecting that the larger diameter of the GTR shocks could push against part of the cage. If it's determined that the shock doesn't press/rub against the cage, than all is good, no mods are needed, you can simply follow the directions presented above, and you'll have far superior shocks on your Ryft...but, if the GTRs do press/rub against the cage, then a slight modification to the cage will probably be needed. As to 'what', specifically, that mod will need to be, I don't exactly know...but, I see two possibilities.

If the shock only slightly presses/rubs against the cage, then you should be able to just remove some material, and all should be good. However, of the shock is pressing quite a bit against the cage, then that short section will need to be removed from the cage. Looking over the design of the cage, removing that short section on each side shouldn't degrade the structural stability of the cage. Just remove enough to allow complete clearance of the shock, while keeping all bolts holding the cage together in-place, all you shouldn't have any problems.

As I said, JDM74 will be testing the 134mm GTRs once he builds his Ryft Kit, and should be able to report back fairly soon. I will be checking with my 2 of my 3 LHSs in approx 2hrs, to see if they have the 134mm shocks, as well as a 'display' Ryft...and, if any has both, or if any one has the shocks & another has a 'display' Ryft, I should be able to post the 'answer' within a few hours. I'm 99.9% certain the GTR idea for the rear shocks will work without any problems, so no worries there. Even though there's a possibility of needing to miss the cage in order to get the front GTRs to fit, in still at least 80% certain the front GTR idea should work.

Good luck to all who try..........


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[JDM74]

Bad news. LHS doesn’t have a assembled Ryft in stock so I couldn’t install a UDR shock to check fitment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by JDM74

Bad news. LHS doesn’t have a assembled Ryft in stock so I couldn’t install a UDR shock to check fitment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No worries. Not only do I already have the UDR shocks enroute to me, they were delivered about 20 minutes ago. Unfortunately, I'm working, and will be working till midnight...same for tomorrow.

Thankfully, I should be off work Monday (or Tuesday), and will check which of my LHSs still have a display Ryft. If none do, I can always build the cage (since I built the axles yesterday), just to test-fit the front shock. I know there's a 'solution' in all this...just need to figure it out. The sooner a solution is determined, the sooner others could be able to get rid of the stock shocks.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[Panther6834]

I've got some good...no, GREAT...news. Granted, it took approx 2.5 hours to come up with this, but it's WELL worth it. Instead of waiting for the LHSs to open, calling to see if they've got a display Ryft, driving over there, and playing (twice) the old "swapping shocks game", I decided to put a major percentage of my cage together, and test-fit the GTRs that got delivered on Saturday. As you can see, from the photo below, the GTRs mount perfectly...and, when I say 'perfectly', I mean it to the micron.
I mounted one shock right side up, and the other upside down, so that those interested in mounting their shocks either way will already know how well they fit. Here's a couple close-ups of both sides, where the springs just lightly touch the cage.
As you can see, with the shocks fully extended (there is NO oil in the shocks), the springs just barely touch the cage. I should note that I did NOT fully tighten the screws holding the cage together. As such, it is quite possible that the springs will actually be slightly further from the cage once all screws are properly tightened. Also of note is that, as the suspension compresses, the Springs do move slightly further away from the cage, making 'fitment' even better. With a fully-built Ryft, and battery in place, this the shocks slightly compressed, the springs will probably be 1-2mm away from the cage. On top of that, with 4mm of internal limiters (thus shortening the 'front' GTRs to the same 130mm as the stock shocks), even when fully extended, the springs will probably come no closer to the cage than 0.75-1mm.

Now, there IS a slight 'catch' to this, albeit an incredibly minor one - the GTR ball ends are narrower (by approx 2mm) than the stock ball ends, so the shocks (where attached to the axle) can slide sightly in-and-out. Honestly, I don't believe this to be a real problem, as "force" will keep them to the outside of the axle shock mounts. For those who truly want to keep the axle end of the shocks from sliding inward, you could always place M3x2mm spacers between the ball ends & inner sides of the axle's shock mounts...but, again, due to standard 'force' keeping them "out", I don't think this will be necessary.

So...there ya have it - the 134mm Traxxas GTR shocks for the UTL will, most definitely, for the front of the Ryft...and, NO modifications are needed. As for the rear end, although I didn't test them (as I'm still waiting on the longer shafts), I am 99.9% certain that will work. All you'd need are the parts mentioned in earlier posts.

By the way, please, don't ask for additional photos. By the time even the first person reads this post, I will have already started disassembling the cage, to prepare it for a nice color-changing bath.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[JDM74]

This good news. I just finished building my stock shocks and all 4 operate silky smooth. I'll have to check stock UDR spring rates and compare them to the Ryft and see what they look like. The stock UDR springs are progressive so it might be hard to find that number. I'll post up what I find.

Edit:

This is what I could find for the UDR front shocks:

TRA8444 .833 rate, white stripe
TRA8443 .937 rate orange stripe
TRA8442 1.146 rate green stripe
TRA8441 1.250 rate blue stripe

these are all natural finish springs. They also have red and blue springs in some of these rates. Does anybody know if Traxxas spring rate's are in lbs/in or something else?

[Panther6834]

Unfortunately, it almost seems as if Traxxas created their own "showing rating system"...as far as I'm aware, their spring rates don't seem to correlate with the spring rates, or spring rating system, of any other manufacturer. I went with the second-lightest available for the front. As for the rear, remember, I'll be doing a dual-rate/dual-spring setup - rear springs meant for the Slash on the bottom, and rear springs meant for the XO-1 on the top. For the bottom, I'm blanking, but I think I went with the lightest (if not the lightest, them the second lightest). For the top, I went middle-of-the-road.

On a separate, but related, note, after disassembling the cage, I got it dyed (check main Ryft thread for photo).


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[JDM74]

I checked the springs that came on the set of UDR shocks I have and they are the white stripes (softest). I compared them to my stock Ryft front shocks are they are way stiffer.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by JDM74

I checked the springs that came on the set of UDR shocks I have and they are the white stripes (softest). I compared them to my stock Ryft front shocks are they are way stiffer.

Then maybe the "solution" fire the front might need to be similar to the rear, as the Slash GTR springs are considerably softer.

Remember, I'll be using Slash rear springs, topped with XO-1 rear springs...at least that's my plan (I'll have to wait until the longer shafts & spring retainers arrive, to determine if the length works). If the combo ends up being too long, I'll try again, but using front XO-1 springs.

As for the front, if the UDR springs are truly to stiff, then, as with the rear shocks I'll be building, I see one of two possible 'solutions'. If the rear/rear combo described above works, then front Slash/rear XO-1 springs might work. If that's too long, then front/front should definitely work.

Sometimes, it's just a matter of testing multiple combinations to find what works. When I did the first conversion (and, of was one heck of a conversion, even using some 4Tec parts) on my Rustler 4x4, I can't tell you how many different combinations of things I tried before everything 'worked'. Whatever is takes, a solution for GTR shocks on the Ryft WILL be figured out.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[Panther6834]

Update on the Ryft nti-stock-shock 'movement'...actually, two updates.

FIRST UPDATE: The first 2 sets of the spring retainers (Traxxas part 7468X) arrived a couple days ago, and I was finally able to modify them this morning. This kit contains several other GTR-related parts, so keeping them as "backups" would be smart...but, for installing the UDR GTR shocks on the Ryft, along with the dual-rate spring idea, you'll only need the spring retainers.

As it turned out, removing the 'threads' was fast easier than I would have thought. For those with a Dremel, you probably already have what's needed...for those without a Dremel, GO BUY ONE - it will become one of your two "best friends" where RC and electric tools are concerned (an electric screwdriver would be the other). The small sanding drum attachment is the perfect...and, I DO mean 'perfect'...way to do it, as the diameter of the sanding drum is approx 0.25mm larger in diameter than the threads on the GTR shock body.

In sanding/Dremeling away the threads on the spring retainers, you WILL need to work slowly, as the plastic gets heated fairly quickly (yes, this means I was holding the spring retainers by hand). If you happen to have the Dremel Rotary Tool Workstation (which I do have, but was too lazy two pull it out & set up...maybe I'll do it for the other 4 spring retainers), this will not only guarantee you don't burn your hands, but it will also guarantee (if you have a perfect 90° setup) perfectly-straight "boring".

Each shock will require 2 spring retainers to be used, thus the reason four packages of 7468X are needed (reach package contains 2 spring retainers). I worked my way partially through each before moving onto the next. Working completely through each spring retainers took 3 'sessions', but they slide over the shock body threads very easily, with virtually no side-to-side movement.

The second half of the first update involves my previously having mentioned using CA glue to adhere the pieces, back-to-back, for each shock. Fruit those who want to do this, go for it...but, as I discovered today, this really isn't necessary (at least for the front shocks), as the tops of the lower springs are never below the bottom of the shock body. As for the rear shocks, I'm still awaiting the longest shafts (actually, they got delivered this afternoon, after I had typed this post), so I don't yet know if the spring retainers will need to be CA glued back-to-back.

SECOND UPDATE: If the UDR GTR springs are too stiff, as previously mentioned, you can use Slash GTR springs for the 'lower' springs, and XO-1 GTR springs for the 'upper' springs. However, as an "alternative" to the Slash springs, I happened to come across a package of Pro-Line ProSpec Rear SCT springs (6308-22), so I thought I'd test-fit them. Their diameter is just a tad smaller than the diameter of the GTR springs...but, with just a light amount of pressure, the ends easily expand enough to seat them into the GTR spring retainers & lower shock cup. The great thing about this option is that the package comes with 5 different spring rate pair. You could use the soft or soft-med on the Ryft's front, and soft-med or medium on the rear. Either of these options (Slash GTR, or Pro-Line ProSpec SCT, springs) should solve the 'lower' spring problem.

Hope to have another update soon. Don't yet know if I'm working tomorrow...but, if I'm not, now that the longer shock shafts arrived, I can test the dual-rate spring setup.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[Panther6834]

Here's a side-by-side comparison between the stock Ryft shocks, and the Traxxas UDR GTR shocks.
As you can see, after adding a very minimal (approx 1.5mm) of internal limiters into the rest shocks, they were just slightly shorter than the stock rear shocks. To 'compensate', instead of adding 4mm of limiters to the front shocks, I added 5.5mm, shortening the fronts by the same 1.5mm. In truth, this should actually be a good thing, as several people have already commented on various forums (incl RCC) that they felt the Ryft sat too high. The 1.5mm "shortening" will slightly lower the Ryft, thus also slightly lowering the CoG.

As can also be seen, bump stops were added, front & rear, courtesy the Losi FR/RR Shock Seal & Limiter Set: Baja Rey (LOS233004). For the front shocks, I cut a single bump stop in half, using each half in each of the front shocks. For the rear, each shock received a whole bump stops piece.

However, there's still the matter (problem?) of the springs...for which I've reached out to Traxxas & Amain for some help. Unfortunately, Traxxas seems to be completely useless in providing info on their own products (this is NOT the first time I've had this route of problem with Traxxas). Currently, I've got the 5434 (GTR XO-1 rear) & 7446 (GTR Slash front) springs. The 5434 are 49mm in length ..so, I was calling Traxxas to find out the length of the GTR XO-1 front (5430) shocks...and, they don't even know. How can a manufacturer not even know measurements of their own products??? As I said, this isn't the first time I've had difficulty get into from Traxxas about one of their own products. This is why I called Amain...except that I ended up being out through to one of their cycling techs. No worries, tho, as I know, when they promise I'll be called back with the info, I can trust that they will actually call back.

At least the GTRs for the Ryft are coming together, and should be finished somewhat soon. Now, if only the last remaining items coming from across the Pacific would get here, I could finally get back to building the rest of the vehicle.

To be continued..........


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[JDM74]

This isn't the first time I have heard a "manufacturer" doesn't know info about their own products. Hopefully Amain with get back to you soon enough. I have some more stuff coming for mine as well. Still have some painting to do on the fuel cell.

[Panther6834]

FINAL UPDATE...this update, combined with the info already presented, will give you everything you need to know to do the GTR "upgrade" for the Ryft.

The process described for the shocks, themselves, was almost spot-on accurate. The only 'adjustments' made...adjustments you might want, or not want, to make...were in the internal limiters. In other words, you can, if you want, increase/decrease the overall amount (in mm) of limiters. It all depends on what eye-to-eye shock length you want to achieve. In the end, I ended up with 129mm front, and 143mm rear.

As for the springs, that took a lil reworking, and a lil more reworking, and even a lil more reworking...but, there they are:
To achieve the final results. I even up using Traxxas 1.1 rate XO-1 front GTR (5430, Green) springs as the top spring for all 4 shocks. As for the lower springs, that's where things ended up getting a lil complicated...but, in the end, this is what ended up working best. For the front, Traxxas 0.623 rate Slash front GTR (7440, Orange) springs. And, for the rear, the 'blue' (softest) springs from the ProSpec 6308-22 SCT Rear Spring Apartment Set. Technically, they shouldn't fit, as the ID is slightly smaller...but, if you carefully press-turn them into the spring retainers, they'll "pop" into place - just remember to compress them several times on the shock (WITHOUT the upper spring) so that they'll be properly 'trained' to compress straight.

The last piece of advise (which I got from a UK forum)...and, this should apply to whatever shocks you're using on the Ryft...is use slightly heavier oil in the rear-left shock (compared to the rear right), so as to counteract the torque-twist. For those NOT using the sway bar, 5-7.5wt higher should do it, and 2.5-5wt higher for those using the sway bar. In my case, I used 25wt for both front shocks, and 32.5wt for the rear-right shock.

As for the rear-left, not being 100% version whether I should use 35wt or 37.5wt (since I will be using the sway bar), I sorta-kinda went somewhere in-between. Yes, I know...that sounds weird/strange/impossible, so I'll explain. I had an almost-empty bottle of 37.5wt...probably enough for a rear Slash GTR, but not enough for a front UDR GTR...so, I did what any "slightly unstable" person would do - I used up the 37.5wt, which filled the shock body approx 8/10 full, and then I topped it off with a lil 32.5wt. If you look at the photo...specifically the top springs...you'll notice that one of them is upside-down (ie. the green 'bars' are at the bottom). This is so I know which shock is the rear-left shock.

Since the 8/10 is only an approximation, I can't actually calculate what the 'final equivalent weight' would be...but, I'm more than willing to see how it performs. For those happy with the stock Ryft shocks, I'm happy that you're happy. For those who want to try "something different", all the parts in this thread should give you more than a "good enough" recipe for cooking up "something different". And, no, this ain't "what The Rock is cooking".

The End...or, is it?


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place