ASTR Scale Comp ?'s

[bmuzz1]

It took us some time (a year to be exact) but we finally had a scale comp. It seemed to me that everyone really enjoyed it and would like to have more of them, myself included so I feel it's time we put our heads together and figure some things out as a club, ASTR.

I had our good friend Steve/Team Tactical Bacon put together the scale rules on a document that could be easily altered (by me) to fit our club since he can't be here with us but wanted to help however he can.

Things we need to discuss:

Rules - They are a necessary evil. Here is a link to the new SORRCA rules.Updated and revised SORRCA Rules and Specs
If you plan to attend events outside of ours like MSD Nats you will need to use these rules 100%. For our club I would like to have a modified set of rules similar but with less restriction on body, chassis, etc.

When and Where - We need to figure out dates for comps, preferably that don't conflict with PARC since there are a good number of drivers that compete there as well.

Classes - In the rules but also separate. What classes do we want to have as a club, Unlimited, KOH, Street, Trail, etc. and what will be the guidelines and decided factors for each class?

Before anyone responds to this thread I would like you all to take some time and read through the SORRCA rules that I posted, make some notes, questions, concerns, etc. then post up here so we can discuss this as a group....

And remember this is supposed to be fun!

[Team Tactical Bacon]

Thanks for the props!

This new version of the rules looks good to me.

Could there be a 1.9 and 2.2 sub class for class 3? I would love to run both of my scale rigs. That may make comps run too long, depending upon attendance.

I think that the deecided upon classes may need to depend on what the majority of people have. Perhaps classes could be initially based on what people have, and as rigs get built, add classes. A "Street" class is not something I would build, but I have 2 Class 3 or "Modified" rigs and a Trail class may be in my future.

I also am not a big fan of water and rcs. Water and lithium scares me. So does frying expensive electronics.

I am not sure how the first comp was judged, but it makes sense to me for the person just coming off the course to stay and judge the next competitor, just like track marshalling for short course.

Hope this makes sense. I personally communicate better by talking.

What are you thinking as far as loosening up the rules?

[Ghost]

I think all 3 classes can be easily accmodated, not every one is going to build a truck/s for all 3 classes,(unless they have way more money than most/all of us LOL ) mostly class 1 and 3 I would think with a scattering of class 2 rigs. it shouldn't be too bad, except for Tech, that can/will take a long time depending on how man rigs are compeating, other than that I don't see that many problems cropping up, that haven't been seen/resolved before

Oh and TTB there isn't alot of water anywhere in this state to worry about, but I am with you about it, I can barely afford to keep electronics in any/all of my rigs

[Erin]

I would think its mostly going to be class 2(honchos) and 3(2.2). This will probably cover most rigs initially. You can always add classes/ modify some rules to accommodate the rigs that show up.

I guess a koh tube frame would fall under class 2 if its on 1.9's, correct? I should clarify , a produced tube chassis, not handmade. I 'm alittle confused on this one.

[Team Tactical Bacon]

Class 2 rigs need to have "frame rails" , like a stock truck. They can be cut off at the rear of the skid, creating a truggy.

"• Vehicle must run a full length rail chassis (The rail chassis must be as long as the vehicles wheelbase extensions are legal for bumpers as long as the chassis meets other specs)"

"• Truggies are allowed, but must have a rail chassis up too the rear of the skid minimum. The truggy structure must extend to the back of the rear axles pumpkin or beyond to be legal."

Maybe that would be a good local addition, like Erin said.....allow 1.9 class 3 rigs in class 2. Maybe with just no dig / 4ws allowed to be used.

[balln]

Rules - Im fine with them


When and Where - What ever you guys come up with.


Classes- My jk falls under class 2 (trail) and in the future i would really like to have a street class. I think that would be a blast to drive but more than likely i will stay in the trail class

[timh]

All sounds pretty good to me. Although I may barely fit in class 2 with my boatside height and the fact that the inside of my tires are barely inside the door line of the body.

I will definitely be coming for these comps though. And I think that if it's on it's own day(not with PARC comp) that it could be easily accomplished in a reasonable amount of time.

[bmuzz1]

Cool, we're getting somewhere.

Alright, here are my thoughts and I wanted to wait till more of you responded.

Street/Class 1 rigs - The current revised rules fit this class very well and I don't see a real need to change anything.

Trail/Class 2 - This one will need a little tweaking. I know of several rigs that in my opinion fit better in this class then they would in TTC/Class 3.
In my opinion a full tube chassis rig on SCX10 or similar frame rails, the RC4WD KOH chassis, Wreckluse or an F-Toy running 1.9's should be in this class and "not" in TTC/Class 3.

With that said however, I'm not sure that dig or 4 wheel steer should be allowed in class 2 either.

TTC/Class 3 - I think this should be a full out run what you brung open class where dig, 4 wheel steer are all allowed and IMO should not be penalized for using them. I also think this is the class where any rig running 2.2 tires over 4.5" belongs.

Now on to details.

IMO rigs with wires all over the place do not look very scale. If your going to run a tuber then it should have panels and a place to neatly put your electronics so you don't have a cockpit full of messy wires. I'm not going to say that every rig should have an interior but I feel that you should at least take the time to cover things up if you're not.

Also fender wells/inner fenders are very easy to make as I've found from recently making them for my rigs and I think that it is a great and easy way to hide your electronics and battery and really helps take your scale build to a whole new level.

Tranny and spur - IMO it doesn't look bad to see a little tranny or spur gear showing between the seats on an open top rig. I know in the new rules it states that they need to be covered but I think we can loosen up on this one just a bit for our club.

These are just a few of my thoughts, now let's here more of yours.

[briansbodies]

man Bri this is a great direction you are moving in...

i like all the rules so far...
i hope we can get a night GTG in as well....

[bmuzz1]

Originally Posted by briansbodies

man Bri this is a great direction you are moving in...

i like all the rules so far...
i hope we can get a night GTG in as well....

Thanks B!

Better yet a night comp!

[cars69]

Brian,

From what I see on the rules my 1.9 falls in #2 class and the 2.2 falls in
the #3 class and If there is a #1 class I must be short a Rigg!
Everyone needs to see what class fits best for the setup they have.
Maybe post up what your runnig at this time, and what class it fits best in.
To help in the picking of what class is needed.

PS I cant't wait until we have a Scale Comp I can make it to.


-Rick

[bmuzz1]

I'm pretty sure your JK would also be in Class 2 unless you know something I don't Rick?

Class-2 “Trail” Details
• The inside of the front tires cannot extend outside of the width of the cab at the doors
• The body (including bumpers) must be 3" longer than the wheelbase
• A front bumper is required and must be mounted to vehicles rail chassis and wider the the chassis (chassis cross rails do not count as bumpers)
• Vehicle must run a full length rail chassis (The rail chassis must be as long as the vehicles wheelbase extensions are legal for bumpers as long as the chassis meets other specs)
• Truggies are allowed, but must have a rail chassis up too the rear of the skid minimum. The truggy structure must extend to the back of the rear axles pumpkin or beyond to be legal.
• Flatbeds that run the full length of the rail chassis are allowed. The bed must be as wide as the cab the entire length of the bed.
• 2 of the 3 following modifications are allowed
- Dovetailing the rear (a truggy/tube bed that is narrower than the cab counts as dovetail).
- Boat sides (no more then 1" measured vertically)
- Pinching the front (2/3 the width of the widest part of the cab)
• Sectioning or narrowing of the body is not allowed
• Body / Cage work must be at least 4.5" tall (including boat sides) and wider then the inside measurement of the vehicles track width (front or rear, whichever is wider).
• 120mm / 4.75" max tire size with a 2.2 max rim size including spare
• Gates will be a minimum of 12" wide (so mind your width)

[Ghost]

looks like my toyota makes class 1 and my new jeep build will be good to go in class 2

[balln]

Sounds good Brian. Im with you i dont think rear steer or dig should be allowed in class 2 but thats my thoughts. And im pretty sure my little land rover will fit in class 1.


Night comp O HELLZ YEAH

[Team Tactical Bacon]

OK!

1.9 Tactical Bacon Wreckluse - Class 2

2.2 Secret Weapon - Class 3

Night comps? I am soooooooooo in. Guess its time to start working on those rock lights!


Seems like the rule mods are pretty simple! Good stuff!

[Erin]

I agree, no dig/4ws in class 2. I also feel wiring should be hid as much as possible. Like brian said, wheel wells are pretty easy and really hide alot.

[cars69]

Originally Posted by bmuzz1

I'm pretty sure your JK would also be in Class 2 unless you know something I don't Rick?

Class-2 “Trail” Details
• The inside of the front tires cannot extend outside of the width of the cab at the doors
• The body (including bumpers) must be 3" longer than the wheelbase
• A front bumper is required and must be mounted to vehicles rail chassis and wider the the chassis (chassis cross rails do not count as bumpers)
• Vehicle must run a full length rail chassis (The rail chassis must be as long as the vehicles wheelbase extensions are legal for bumpers as long as the chassis meets other specs)
• Truggies are allowed, but must have a rail chassis up too the rear of the skid minimum. The truggy structure must extend to the back of the rear axles pumpkin or beyond to be legal.
• Flatbeds that run the full length of the rail chassis are allowed. The bed must be as wide as the cab the entire length of the bed.
• 2 of the 3 following modifications are allowed
- Dovetailing the rear (a truggy/tube bed that is narrower than the cab counts as dovetail).
- Boat sides (no more then 1" measured vertically)
- Pinching the front (2/3 the width of the widest part of the cab)
• Sectioning or narrowing of the body is not allowed
• Body / Cage work must be at least 4.5" tall (including boat sides) and wider then the inside measurement of the vehicles track width (front or rear, whichever is wider).
• 120mm / 4.75" max tire size with a 2.2 max rim size including spare
• Gates will be a minimum of 12" wide (so mind your width)

Will Class #2 have a 1.9 & 2.2 or will they run together as the same?
I wish they would be in a different class because of wheel size.

-Rick

[bmuzz1]

Originally Posted by cars69

Will Class #2 have a 1.9 & 2.2 or will they run together as the same?
I wish they would be in a different class because of wheel size.

-Rick

Same class being that the tire size is the same whether you're running 1.9 or 2.2 and "No" comp tires so there's no advantage running 2.2's.

[dingo2010]

for what it's worth, I think that the current rules in place are a bit close minded, being that all of the bodies and configurations available to the builder don't lend themseves to be exactly to scale. for instance, bmuzz has a k5 blazer scaler, that looks very scaled with the configuration he has, however, my dingo (scx 10 tr) has a bigger body than the blazer which lends itself to look better with a bigger tire and wheel combo. I actually contacted proline to ask why they don't offer more than 1 size tire for each wheel size, they had no real answer, but said they would pass it on to the marketing dept. I don't think that the bodies and axles are necessarily to scale. You don't see a jeep wrangler on the road that is as big or bigger than ford f350. And with the lack of adjustability of the axle width it makes it hard to fit every configuation. Maybe there should be a hybrid class 2/3 to allow for bigger tire size but not have dig or 4ws.

[bmuzz1]

Originally Posted by dingo2010

for what it's worth, I think that the current rules in place are a bit close minded, being that all of the bodies and configurations available to the builder don't lend themseves to be exactly to scale. for instance, bmuzz has a k5 blazer scaler, that looks very scaled with the configuration he has, however, my dingo (scx 10 tr) has a bigger body than the blazer which lends itself to look better with a bigger tire and wheel combo. I actually contacted proline to ask why they don't offer more than 1 size tire for each wheel size, they had no real answer, but said they would pass it on to the marketing dept. I don't think that the bodies and axles are necessarily to scale. You don't see a jeep wrangler on the road that is as big or bigger than ford f350. And with the lack of adjustability of the axle width it makes it hard to fit every configuation. Maybe there should be a hybrid class 2/3 to allow for bigger tire size but not have dig or 4ws.

I'm not quite sure I follow where you are trying to go with this Rob but I'll try to respond best I can.

Assuming you have read through the rules which I'm sure you have you would see that your Dingo currently fits squarely into the Class 2/Trail class because you're running 2.2 wheels and tires. I have seen many Dingo's out there running 1.9's as well and they still look pretty good in that configuration. As long as you keep within the tire size requirement (which I think we can extend to include Flat Irons as they come stock) and have 1/2 or less of your tread exposed beyond the fender your good to run in the street/Class 1.

My K5 would not be able to run in Street/Class 1 because more then half of my tires stick out past the fender even with the pin mount steelies and it certainly would not be competitive in class 2/Trail and that is why I built my Rover. When and if I rebuild the K5 it will be a fun trail rig but never a competitor... besides it's a freaking pig.

Also I think that adding sub classes and all that is just going to complicate things and would not only make for an exceptionally long day but would spread out the competitors too much. Remember our group isn't that big as of now, 15 or so competitors and with 3 classes and not all running in each your looking at 3 - 5+ competitors per class. Add sub categories to that and you could be competing by yourself, not fun. I think we need to keep this as simple and fun as possible, IMO.

Keep the comments coming guys, were making great head way here!

If it helps we can continue this conversation via email so that we can include everyone and get this finalized in no time. My email is bmuzz1@hotmail.com, please include your screen name if different from your email.