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12-05-2011, 12:16 AM
| #1 |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: seattle
Posts: 84
|  I don't get droop.
After playing around with a variety of shock, spring and oil combinations on my TCS Edge chassis, I have come to the conclusion that I am missing something vital about droop setups. Even with each wheel weighing in at just shy of 1lb, even the lightest springs I can find seem to damp the "droop" rate enough that I almost always end up with more than one wheel off the ground in off-camber situations. If I stop and wait for the opposing wheel to drop, it will but slowly. This makes me wonder, given that the weight of the chassis, motor, tranny, dig, etc will compress just about any shock I have on it's own, what's the point of the springs? It almost seems like running a totally empty shock would make as much sense (which doesn't make sense). Probably switching back to sprung tomorrow, maybe it's just that I have more hours working on 1:1 and 1:10 sprung suspensions, but I feel like I understand what the parameters are better... Looking for what I'm missing about droop, but so far I just don't get it! |
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12-05-2011, 01:15 PM
| #2 |
| Keep it real   Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Yakima,WA
Posts: 6,532
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Link geometry plays a vital role in droop setups, just as it does in sprung setups. And they aren't the same.
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12-05-2011, 01:24 PM
| #3 |
| Suck it up!  Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,652
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^^^^ What he said. There is a reason not too many people run droop...its a PITA to set up properly until you get your head around it. |
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12-05-2011, 01:49 PM
| #4 |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: seattle
Posts: 84
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Interesting - my link geometry is definitely straight-up 4-link sprung, so that may be part of my issue(s)... Hmm. Will dig around for link setup guidance, before completely abandoning the droop concept - I like the theory, the practice is a PITA though!  |
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12-05-2011, 01:58 PM
| #5 |
| I wanna be Dave Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: roland,ar
Posts: 5,981
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it took ALOT of tuning with my edge chassis.. i ended up running spring on top and bottom of the shock piston. mainly to limit the travel of the shocks.. all that flex got me stuck more than it helped in the long run. |
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12-05-2011, 03:37 PM
| #6 |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: seattle
Posts: 84
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Yeah, I am starting to understand that With the setup I just tested, I'm pretty happy. It's kind of ghetto, but in the short run I did just derping around my house it seems to work the best so far... Hot Racing Air Shocks w/ no springs, greased o-rings and 1cm of tubing at the top to limit sag. They articulate decently, but not too quickly. Get about 70-80deg articulation total with the link geometry I'm using now. Will probably call it done for now and see how it works on real rocks. |
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12-05-2011, 03:38 PM
| #7 | |
| MODERATOR™  Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ohio
Posts: 18,928
| Quote:
What oil are you running? I ran droop on a Berg for a while and (it) did rather well but yes, it took much time to get it to work right, and tweak it a bit to make it mine. | |
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12-05-2011, 03:39 PM
| #8 | |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: seattle
Posts: 84
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70wt, I believe, may try that setup again with 35 if I don't like how it's doing with the current setup (see above Quote:
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12-05-2011, 03:43 PM
| #9 | |
| Suck it up! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,652
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12-05-2011, 03:47 PM
| #10 |
| MODERATOR™ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ohio
Posts: 18,928
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Yeah try a thinner oil, especially if you're in a cold climate. For droop to be done correctly, you need a spring to keep the shocks closed, or compressed. With no spring you're just flopping around. With a spring on top and below the piston you're not running droop, but what we eventually dubbed as 50/50 or semi-droop. This is all pretty old stuff, and now a days, I'm pretty sure most people run sprung, but likely because of the win on Sunday, sell on Monday mentality more than anything, but whatever...
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12-05-2011, 03:58 PM
| #11 | |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: seattle
Posts: 84
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Yeah, sorry, not sure what happened there, I meant between 35-40* Quote:
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12-05-2011, 04:02 PM
| #12 | |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: seattle
Posts: 84
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Yeah, I get what the spring is supposed to do, but in my experiments all they did was limit extension - the weight of the chassis, motor, tranny, dig, etc did more than enough to keep them compressed. I can see how a very, very light spring might be helpful to limit droop rate, but honestly with the large shaft diameter of the HR shocks I am using now the friction between shaft and o-rings seems to work decently well... With any spring I've tried in them so far (and other shocks as well) I would need to weight my tires or axle significantly more than the 14oz or so that they're at now to get them to droop at all... Quote:
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12-05-2011, 04:05 PM
| #13 | |
| MODERATOR™ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ohio
Posts: 18,928
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12-05-2011, 04:12 PM
| #14 | |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: seattle
Posts: 84
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They droop, slowly - they go further than 1/3 of the distance, but not 100%.... Quote:
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12-05-2011, 04:12 PM
| #15 |
| Suck it up! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,652
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Poke around your local hardware store for springs. Much cheaper and a larger selection than what you'll find from various vendors. Plus you've got them in your hand and can tell if they're harder/softer than what you have now. I probably went through 8 or so different packages before I found some that were just right, but at one or two bucks a pack its pretty reasonable.
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