really bad torque twist!

[Mac10]

my buddy just bought a scorpion, and it has horrible torque twist just giving it gas makes it lean hard back and then letting off it comes all the way forward.
has anyone else seen this and what are you guys doing to fix it?
his has stock shocks and springs.

[firestorm450]

Does the drive train bind up? take the pinion off the motor, and try to turn the spur yourself, it should be easy to turn. Other than that im not sure what to suggest. Torque twist goes from side to side, im not sure how to solve a forward and back problem. My scorpion doesn't twist too much under throttle.

[nyxis]

what he is describing is anti-squat and anti-dive.. goes into a whole other realm of suspension building (there are a few threads in the general crawler forum that talks about it).. not sure how the ax10s are set up by axial so cant comment if something is out of adjustment or not..

[Taffey]

I would guess that your buddy has the battery in the stock location - on top of the chassis plate. Moving the battery to one of the axles (preferrably the front) will eliminate this problem and improve performance as well.

[k9popo]

Experiment with the upper link positions as well as shock placement and maybe some heavier shock oil..

[85V8XJ]

I'm running my pack in the stock location, and frankly, it's not fast enough to experience much squat or dive while running a "crawler-specific" power setup (55t or higher wind brushless). I suppose if your buddy is running a ton of horsepower, heck yeah, the truck will squat and dive like crazy - even with the "stiff" stock springs, it's very pliable and is geared towards rock crawling, not setting speed records. I messed around with my truck and can't quite figure out any other reasons behind his handling issues. Is he running a heavy hard plastic body with the battery mounted up high?

[85V8XJ]

For those of you that haven't owned or driven one of these trucks, just build it as it comes in the box, no modifications. Try it stock prior to making changes. I think the vast majority of Scorpion owners would agree that the truck is more than acceptable out of the box if used for it's intended purpose, and doesn't really exhibit any negative traits other than the real torque twist that is associated with most solid axle shaft driven vehicles. Of course, it can be made better with with the normal crawler tweaks and upgrades.

[Hildy]

With the stock shocks you can put several shock spacers in the drivers rear shock to stiffen it. I used 2 thick ones

However, I put the stock axial shock shafts into some aluminum threaded tmaxx length bodies and lowered my height a little plus full adjustment.

[offmyaxials]

Originally Posted by mwrighttt

my buddy just bought a scorpion, and it has horrible torque twist just giving it gas makes it lean hard back and then letting off it comes all the way forward.
has anyone else seen this and what are you guys doing to fix it?
his has stock shocks and springs.

ADD WEIGHT TO THE TYRES, THINK ALONG THE LINES OF 150GMS( HALF A POUND OR SO IN EACH WHEEL AND WORK FROM THERE, ALSO GET THE BATTERY OVER THE FRONT AXLE IF YOU HAVENT ALREADY DONE SO,,IF YOU HAVE A PROGRAMMABLE RADIO OR SPEEDO SET IT FOR ABOUT 70% OR ITS LEAST AGGRESSIVE CURVE AND REMEMBER THAT ITS CALLED A CRAWLER FOR GOOD REASON ,, GENTLY DOES IT(I USE 3/16 BALL BEARINGS WITH A FEW DROPS OF SHOCK OIL TO PREVENT RUSTING, AS MY TYRE BALLAST AND IT CALMED THE AXLE TORQUE NICELY) HOPE THIS HELPS.

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by Hildy

With the stock shocks you can put several shock spacers in the drivers rear shock to stiffen it. I used 2 thick ones.

This seems to be everyones fix, my problem was it wouldn't them crawl/flex/articulate right with the 2 spacers. I'm working on different shocks and well a 4 link too.

I think for slamming the throttle it sure does exhibit torque flex, BUT if you are very smooth and slow on the throttle like the big name guys on here in the videos I have seen it seems thats you get all the needed power to the right spots. Maybe its a style thing...slow and smooth or a throttle hammer driver.

[Grizzly4x4]

I drove an AX-10 the other day and the torque lift was so bad that in a right hand turn I could roll the truck over (just like my old T-Maxx).
Granted, it had a P2K motor in it but my Revolver Black brushless motor on 8 cells has way more torque. I can slam the throttle on my 2.2 comp rig and it doesn't lean or torque lift at all.

Originally Posted by Hildy

With the stock shocks you can put several shock spacers in the drivers rear shock to stiffen it. I used 2 thick ones

However, I put the stock axial shock shafts into some aluminum threaded tmaxx length bodies and lowered my height a little plus full adjustment.

This is a good fix.
The rear upper links are the main reason IMO. In stock trim the upper links point upwards from the axle to the chassis and this induces the torque lift. Moving the battery to the front axle and running several spacers on the left rear shock will help quite a bit as with any shafty crawler (most of the big name comp guys run a stiffer spring on the left rear corner and/or preload it more). Lowering the ride height should help too.

[85V8XJ]

The author's question wasn't about the torque twist - he's referring to dive and squat. My Scorpion twists while climbing, and also when driving on high tractions surfaces and just turning the wheels. I'll mess around with reducing the twist eventually, but I'm enjoying the massive articulation right now - I haven't gone to a comp yet. Reducing the twist seems to always involve adding preload to the shocks, either via collars or by lying the shocks down.

[crawls2thewalls]

all i did was add some fuel tubing to the inside of my shocks over the shafts to limit there travel.. in doing this it obviously made the stock setup a little stiffer and virtually eliminated the twisting action.. i run a (2/3 a) 6 cell on the servo and added a ton of weight to each rim..added 6oz to each front and 4oz to each rear.. no twist at all now and it climbs like damn mountain goat.. baaaaaaaaaaa
my front foms are star cut and rears are narrowed..

i couldn't be much happier

,crawls

[crawls2thewalls]

it should also correct any squat problems by the way

[Mac10]

I will get some real crawling done this saturday.
but this rig is completely stock. 55t, battery pack in stock location.
I do think he has a heavy throttle finger being as how this is his first crawler.

I will see if I can get video, but without two spacers in the right rear shock he can blip the throttle and the truck will stay leaning back to the right corner on flat ground after it has stopped moving.

I don't know if it's torque twist or squat and dive.
Iwould call it torque twist cause my wheely king used to lean real hard to the right on steep inclines, only difference is his does it on flat ground.

I don't have much time playing with this rig yet so I will check it out more this saturday.
I was mainly curious if anybody else had seen this.

also, has anybody devised a way to fit a stick pack on the front axle without breaking it into halves?

thanks for the replies and info!!!

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by mwrighttt

also, has anybody devised a way to fit a stick pack on the front axle without breaking it into halves?

Well I basically made the optional Axial plate cuz I didn't want to wait for them.

Pics show plate, 4 link, and battery mount. I did have to do some soldering (or I should say my LHS guys).

http://www.binaryterror.com/binaryterror/AX10/

[Tanis]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

I can slam the throttle on my 2.2 comp rig and it doesn't lean or torque lift at all.
The rear upper links are the main reason IMO. In stock trim the upper links point upwards from the axle to the chassis and this induces the torque lift.

Same here, I can stab full throttle forward then instantly stab full throttle reverse(on carpet even ), and the chassis doesn't move. 4link geometry is what I use to kill any torquetwist.

Just have your buddy try changing a couple of things as suggested here, one at a time, to see how it affects the performance.

[Tanis]

Here's a thread with a lot of helpful info on torquetwist.

torque twist

[stompinjab1]

IMO the link geometry is all rong. By changing the rear links to a 4 link with the same length links and added anti squat I can run my batt on top without twist. That is unless I hit rev then it still twist because I havn't changed the front yet