Upside down shocks ?

[SMUDGEBUG]

I see alot of rigs running their shocks upside down, what is the reason for this and how do the compare to say running the shocks the right way up ? I know this is not a specific AX10 question but I have seen a couple like this so far.

[stanbro]

easier to switch out springs

[Badd]

lowers the COG abit

[SMUDGEBUG]

Originally Posted by stanbro

easier to switch out springs

thanks lol your rig was the reason I asked I was just looking at the pics and wondered.

[SPECIAL ED]

To try and bring excess weight below the top of the tire. That oil is very minimal weight up there...

[Kamikaze]

You do it to keep your shock oil full of air.

[Rockcrawler]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

You do it to keep your shock oil full of air.

I started to say that but I dont have enough posts to make smart ars remarks yet.

[MattH]

Having the shock body lower, lowers the CG. I found that the stock shocks didn't work well (binding) upside down on AX10. Since the shocks are plastic, it's no big deal anyway.

[stanbro]

To be sure I'm not just overlooking something.. Air bubbles would cause inconsistencies in shock stroke.. or ?? And what exactly is changed by flipping the shock? Also would internal springs make any diff either way??

[TunaMaxx]

The stock Scorpion shocks are "emulsion" type. Emulsion dampers require the shock oil to be full of air. No air? No volume compensation...

[stanbro]

so are big bores different?? Is it even a bad thing... now I'm just lost

[TunaMaxx]

Big bores have a bladder to keep the air and oil separated. But for a crawler, at the sloooow shocks speeds... I don't think it really makes much difference.

I run mine upside down... and I've used both the Axial and the Big Bores. I ended up back with the Axial's mostly because of the ball at both ends of the shock. The Big Bores need to use a small piece of fuel tubing at one end.

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

You do it to keep your shock oil full of air.

Yeah another lame post. You forget emulsion shocks yet again? They need air to mix with the oil to work, thats common racer knowledge.

Looks like TunaMAXX said everything I wanted to say.

[Rockcrawler]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

Yeah another lame post. You forget emulsion shocks yet again? They need air to mix with the oil to work, thats common racer knowledge.

Looks like TunaMAXX said everything I wanted to say.

HUH???? I have been in R/C for over 13 years and never heard that. This was quoted from a site that I will also link to......


Some shocks are made to be mounted "upside down", with the oil chamber and piston on top. Since the piston and oil chamber move independently, it's best to attach the light portion - the piston - to the wheel and the heavy portion - the oil chamber - to the frame. This decreases the unsprung weight. However, many people think it looks weird. You cannot just turn any shock over - most shocks have air and oil in them, and the oil level will be wrong if you mount them upside down.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Suspension.html

Yes, I know its a motorcycle site.

Ok, first, they use nitrogen. Nitrogen and oil is very hard to mix. Oxygen on the other had will mix easy.



Is there a write up on this some where guys? Not saying that you are wrong but I have never heard that.

[binaryterror]

Wow link to a motorcycle site, even frigging motorcycles use inverted and traditional front forks all the time. I own a mototrcycle and know for a fact that their entire piston and valving system does not in anyway relate to the theory of our shocks as we use shocks that are far more simplistic.

Time to think about Emulsion and Bladder shocks. If you've been in the RC world for years you should completely understand how the Bladder shock (think TMAXX) works compared to a Emulsion (think Losi 1/10th scale).

Also you mention Oil and Nitrogen are hard to mix, agreed, but then you go on saying Oxygen and oil are better. Do you fill your shocks with only oxygen or do you use standard everyday Air? Last time I checked the scientific world has proven that "Air" is comprised of 78% Nitrogen, 20% Oxygen, the rest being argon, carbon dioxide and trace elements in gaseous state. Obviously depending upon humidity you will also find some water vapor in the mix as well.

Here is a great link on the difference with pictures and explanations of the RC world and its shock types: http://www.rc411.com/pages/howto.php?howto=31&page=2

[Kamikaze]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

Yeah another lame post. You forget emulsion shocks yet again? They need air to mix with the oil to work, thats common racer knowledge.

Looks like TunaMAXX said everything I wanted to say.

You got some kinda problem???

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

You got some kinda problem???

You leave a wise crack comment all the time yet never offered the user help. Especially when the wise crack comment isn't correct.

If you don't want to help newbies or people below your level, don't click the "Submit Reply" button.

[Rockcrawler]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

Time to think about Emulsion and Bladder shocks. If you've been in the RC world for years you should completely understand how the Bladder shock (think TMAXX) works compared to a Emulsion (think Losi 1/10th scale).

Also you mention Oil and Nitrogen are hard to mix, agreed, but then you go on saying Oxygen and oil are better. Do you fill your shocks with only oxygen or do you use standard everyday Air? Last time I checked the scientific world has proven that "Air" is comprised of 78% Nitrogen, 20% Oxygen, the rest being argon, carbon dioxide and trace elements in gaseous state. Obviously depending upon humidity you will also find some water vapor in the mix as well.

Here is a great link on the difference with pictures and explanations of the RC world and its shock types: http://www.rc411.com/pages/howto.php?howto=31&page=2

I meant air I dont know why I said oxygen. ok, when you turn the shock upside down, is the piston not sitting in nothing but air? Isn't there going to be about 1/8" at the bottom of the shock with nothing but air? I might be missing something. I know you cant fill them all the way to the top. And I have always ran shocks that have blatters. Even the old losi shocks I believe had blatters. I know the maxx, and the 1/8 scale do.

[TunaMaxx]

Originally Posted by Rockcrawler

HUH???? I have been in R/C for over 13 years and never heard that. This was quoted from a site that I will also link to...

There's a lot of info about shock tech on that site. It's good info...

Originally Posted by Rockcrawler

Since the piston and oil chamber move independently, it's best to attach the light portion - the piston - to the wheel and the heavy portion - the oil chamber - to the frame.

Bingo! But, in rock crawling, we want the center of gravity as low as possible. That's the main reason behind flipping the shock; to get the heavy side down.

You cannot just turn any shock over - most shocks have air and oil in them, and the oil level will be wrong if you mount them upside down.

Emulsion shocks will work in any direction; the only warning is if the vehicle sits with the suspension at full extension. Then you run the risk of the inital shock stroke not being dampened until the piston moves through any air that has collected at the top. But, I can't think of any vehicles that fit in that category; they all sit somewhere in the shock's stroke with the piston below the 'air gap' at the top..

AFAIK, all other types of shocks have the oil and volume compensation gas (air, nitrogen, whatever) physically separated. In 'Maxx shocks, it's a flexible bladder; in others it's a floating piston. Orientation should have no effect on performance for these kind of shocks.

Originally Posted by Rockcrawler

Is there a write up on this some where guys? Not saying that you are wrong but I have never heard that.

Yup, sure. They talk about emulsion shocks inthe article you quoted:

Most shocks work just like the emulsion type in figure 4. Other shocks are more complicated

Also, Associated uses (and is the company I mostly see associated with) emulsion shocks. The have a little piece in their help section on teamassociated.com

For one more, here's an article reproduced from RC Car Action mag:

The simplest way to compensate for the excess fluid is to mix air with it. Since air can be compressed, the tiny air bubbles in the fluid simply shrink as they are squeezed by the action of the shaft and piston. This is the type of system used by Associated, and it's known as an emulsion design because the air is mixed (emulsified) with the shock fluid. For best results with an emulsion shock, pump it before each heat to thoroughly mix the air and shock fluid. The bubbles become microscopic and are impossible to feel in the shock stroke.

[Kamikaze]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

You leave a wise crack comment all the time yet never offered the user help. Especially when the wise crack comment isn't correct.

If you don't want to help newbies or people below your level, don't click the "Submit Reply" button.

I help people all the time, what I said makes perfect sence. Sometimes people need to help themselves, this is at least the 7th time in the last month this question has been asked.