VP Wraith knuckles or VP XR10 knuckles?

[Illeagle]

So I have been reading a bunch of threads about steering on the wraith and xr10 but haven't found a definitive answer. I see if you want the most steering then you go with vp xr10 knuckles but what I want to know is WHY? What is it that actually gives you MORE steering? Is it the part of the knuckle with the dual arms that is positioned differently? Is it the bolt on steering arm that changes it for more throw? The reason I'm asking is because I see that vp now sells wraith specific knuckles but will those give the wraith the same increase in steering as the xr10 knuckles do? I see they don't have the dual mounting arms on the rear so I'm not sure if the will or not. ARE YOU?

[Almighty Malach]

Both styles are zero ackerman, the only difference is the wraith arms are shorter than the XR arms. That gives you more steering throw at the expense of servo torque.

[Illeagle]

I'm not following you Casey. The wraith knuckles only have the bolt on steering arms.
Are you saying the steering arms are different?

[Almighty Malach]

Yes. The distance from the kingpin to the end of the arm is longer on the XR, on both the intergral arms and the red bolt-on arms. It's slightly less on the wraith knuckles, so the same amount of servo travel will give you more steering with wraith knuckles. Plus, the XR knuckles are limited to about 55* because the rear arms hit the C at full lock.

[Illeagle]

So theoretically you could bolt on the vp xr10 "steering arm" to the vp wraith knuckles and have the same or more steering (no integral arms to hit on axle) as an xr10?

[joelKID984]

alright, i dont think that you can put the XR10 knuckles on the wraith, the arms rub up on the inside rim. for the greater steering, you need CVD's or universials, they increase your turning radius from like 30° to 50°. personally, id go with the axial universials, the RC4WD CVD, kepps breaking!!!!

[rcjunky3]

xr10 knuckles are what comes factory on the wraith ax80061 same part

[stick-boy-rick]

i'm running the HR Chubs and knuckles for the xr10 on my wraith. i did this before they had "wraith specific" knuckles. absolutly no issues, although they do have those machined in arms on the backside as well as the bolt on steering arms on the front side. when my universals come in from my LHS i will cut off the rear machined arms. at this point they have enough throw to bind up my current dog bone setup, so i adjusted my end points on my controller and have all the steering that the dog bones allow. my buddy has the exact same setup but with universals and has WAY more steering than i do.

[Sheepdawg23wm]

Originally Posted by stick-boy-rick

i'm running the HR Chubs and knuckles for the xr10 on my wraith. i did this before they had "wraith specific" knuckles. absolutly no issues, although they do have those machined in arms on the backside as well as the bolt on steering arms on the front side. when my universals come in from my LHS i will cut off the rear machined arms. at this point they have enough throw to bind up my current dog bone setup, so i adjusted my end points on my controller and have all the steering that the dog bones allow. my buddy has the exact same setup but with universals and has WAY more steering than i do.

Glad i read this, went to order a set of those universals and everywhere is out of stock. Happen to know any plae they are in stock?

[DISTURBIN' tha PEACE]

Originally Posted by joelKID984

alright, i dont think that you can put the XR10 knuckles on the wraith, the arms rub up on the inside rim. for the greater steering, you need CVD's or universials, they increase your turning radius from like 30° to 50°. personally, id go with the axial universials, the RC4WD CVD, kepps breaking!!!!

I just put some VP XR10 chubs & knuckles on mine. I cut off the arms on the rear & bolted the stock wraith arms on. No problems & no rubbing. I'm running DNA Thrashers w/Berg offset.

[ROLANDROCKSHOP]

Originally Posted by stick-boy-rick

i'm running the HR Chubs and knuckles for the xr10 on my wraith. i did this before they had "wraith specific" knuckles. absolutly no issues, although they do have those machined in arms on the backside as well as the bolt on steering arms on the front side. when my universals come in from my LHS i will cut off the rear machined arms. at this point they have enough throw to bind up my current dog bone setup, so i adjusted my end points on my controller and have all the steering that the dog bones allow. my buddy has the exact same setup but with universals and has WAY more steering than i do.

same here..

[Illeagle]

So after I thought I had it all figured out someone told me that the VP integrated dual arms are at a different angle than the stock integrated dual arms and allow more turning before hitting the rear of the axle. Can anyone verify if thats true or not?

[JeremyH]

I just swapped in a set of VP wraith knuckles (which replaced Axial alum knucks) and didnt notice any loss in steering....even with those short arms VP sends.

[Illeagle]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

I just swapped in a set of VP wraith knuckles (which replaced Axial alum knucks) and didnt notice any loss in steering....even with those short arms VP sends.

So do you think you have as much steering with the wraith vp knuckles as an xr10 setup would with the vp parts?

[JeremyH]

I believe so.

Really, the only downfall that I see with using the wraith VP knuckles over the XR VP knuckles is the inability to mount their weight system to the wraith knuckles.

If you'd like, I can snap a picture this evening of the steering that I get from my front using the VP wraith knuckles.

[Illeagle]

If its not a PIA that would be great. Really I am just trying to find a DEFINITIVE answer to why the VP knuckles give you more steering than the stock stuff. I guess I will just have buy the vp knuckle and compare/measure it to the stock ones. I have received conflicting info. Some say its ONLY the bolt on arm that allows more steering and others say its the dual integral arms angled different than the stock ones that allow them to turn farther before they hit the axle housing. Obviously the new Wraith specific ones dont have the arms so your pic may be the answer. I believe you also have a comp xr with the vp upgrades dont you? If you compare the steering of the two that should answer all questions I have.

[JeremyH]

Yeah, the bolt on metal arm is zero ack......the double shear arms have ackermann built in which will give you less steering...at least on one arm.

In fact, I can show you both VP wraith and Axial aluminum setups if you'd like. I run the VP on the front of my truck and Axial on the back.

[JeremyH]

Here is the max steering for both setups....VP Wraith knuckles up front and Axial XR/Wraith in the back:


Keep in mind, there is positive caster on the front axle and zero caster on the back.

Front:



Rear:




Now, IMO, the best test to see which turns tighter is to crank them both to one direction (crabwalk) and run the truck. If they are the same steering then the truck should just run a straight diagonal line. I did this. The front end (with the VP Wraith stuff) turned slightly sharper....but not by much....the truck would probably have made a 25' radius turn. Now, I dont know if this is because of the knuckle setup or the caster on the front axle.

[Illeagle]

wow, that seems pretty close front and rear. Thanks a lot for all those pics and the info.

[JeremyH]

No problem.