Coming to YOUR State Legislature...

[DeaDShorT]

Washington State Senate Bill 6900 will set a tax table based on engine displacement, in addition to the registration taxes you are already paying.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil...Bills/6900.pdf
http://www.washingtonvotes.org/Legis...58460#comments

This is bad news for small buisiness owners, independent contractors and basicly every blue collar working class family in the US. This is Big Government getting into everyones ability to recreate and travel. I know that Colorado Governor Bill Ritter is very supportive of a similar initiative/bill in this state.

Find your State Senator or Rep. and let them know this is a very bad deal for everyone. Research and educate yourself. It will be a benefit to you and your family in the upcoming Legislative battles.

[Natedog]

SOBs need to be kicked out of office now....all of them...no good money grubbers! This clearly cuts into our freedom to move about as if gas prices don't do that too much already.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Natedog

SOBs need to be kicked out of office now....all of them...no good money grubbers!

They'll simply be replaced by people who are exactly like them, no matter what party is in office. You just described every professional politician...

[binaryterror]

Its a luxury tax guys, no different than what the high end sports car fans face. My boss pays a fortune to have a Viper because of its lack of fuel economy.

I agree with the bill. Everyone talks about helping the environment, lets do something. I don't agree with how they are doing it. Forcing people to pay more (in an already hard economy) because they own a large engine now is unfair. If we started it from say Jan 1st 2009 onward and grandfather the previously owned I would agree 100%.

[cotharyus]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

They'll simply be replaced by people who are exactly like them, no matter what party is in office. You just described every professional politician...

You just hit the nail on the head. There should be no such thing as a professional politician. Term limits all around, please.

[JeremyH]

I have a few questions for the folks that proposed this regulation:

1) Why is it fair to tax based on engine displacement? My family has a 2000 F250 7.3L that gets ~20mpg and I drive a 2.5L Wrangler that gets ~15mpg (on a good day)....does it make sense to impose more tax on the vehicle that gets better mileage?

2) Where will the money from these extra fees go? Will it be put toward the development of a cleaner burning engine? Somehow, I doubt it will...

This regulation will do nothing but put a strain on people since they have no other choice as to what type of fuel the engine of their vehicle runs on. I am seriously going to look into a propane conversion....

[Rudukai13]

They should be taxing based on MPG. And I would be willing to bet every last dollar I have that its just going to go straight back into the pocket of big oil. These are the kinds of things I tell myself in the morning when I'm trying to talk myself out of waking up...

[fatbastard]

They just want everyone to buy a new recyclable car every few years. Its total b.s. I had a 63 nova with a 6cyl. and three on the tree that got 18 mpg. Now they can't make anything that gets decent mileage unless it's an expensive p.o.s hybrid. Auto makers conspiracy. My 72 f250 got the same mileage as my 07 mega cab does. B.S and big money.

[TK-twister]

it is all about the money. I think all senators should have a term just like presidents. This way the government is always fresh and non corrupt. people like that is why the corvette is a dying breed.

[BJoe]

I guess in some ways the taxes we already pay on gasoline already are a MPG tax or tank size tax, the lower your MPG and/or the larger the tank in the vehicle, the more you end up paying anyway. With this tax it would make that even worse:-(

[Dragon51]

They can take the tax and put it were the sun don't shine, all it really happens some one else gets more money, and it will not do any of us working class a dam bit of good. Hell as it is we already pay more than enough in taxes now is that part of the reason why we broke from England? Stupid BS taxes.

Why don't they release the vehicles that don't use oil for there fuel then there would be no reason for another tax, my bad because the rich mofo's would loose money that is all they are really after.

There have been people who have come up with aditives that will make your current car run off water, but they get paid off not to say anything because there is no money in it for the rich oil tycoons.

Yea just what we need another dam tax to take our money

[Karadjas]

Originally Posted by fatbastard

They just want everyone to buy a new recyclable car every few years. Its total b.s. I had a 63 nova with a 6cyl. and three on the tree that got 18 mpg. Now they can't make anything that gets decent mileage unless it's an expensive p.o.s hybrid. Auto makers conspiracy. My 72 f250 got the same mileage as my 07 mega cab does. B.S and big money.

Lots of manufacturers make cars with good mileage and/or that can fly under the displacement tax, and they don't have to be Prius clones either. The VW Golf GT (1.4 TSI 170hp) and lots of other similar cars come to mind... It's just that American makers haven't had the incentive to make fuel efficient cars until now.

In Cyprus we've had extortionate registration fees based on displacement for ages, there are ways around it with the new wave of European/Japanese cars. I know I'll get horribly flamed for this... but both European and Japanese cars have better build quality and handling anw.

The huge engine/low hp versions of American cars definitely had torque going for them, but they've started losing that advantage lately. Audi 2.0 TDI with 32kg/m and 51.4 combined mpg? (32 kilogram meter = 231.456 442 612 448 pound foot)

Stepping away from the diesels, the VW/Audi 2.0 FSI (n/a) engine gets 34.3mpg,147lbft and 150hp with the 2.0 TFSI managing 31.1mpg (some reporting 36+) with 206lbft and 200hp(bullcrap, no 2.0TFSI has been dynoed below 220hp with decent fuel).

There have to be better examples but Audi is all I've looked at lately.

I have to agree with the first post, those people who actually need the torque that only a big engine can give them will suffer the most. I just don't see the average family man being terribly affected by it though.

Please be gentle

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Karadjas

I know I'll get horribly flamed for this... but both European and Japanese cars have better build quality and handling anw.

Hummm....what about those "Japanese" cars that are produced in the state in which I live? Where do those fall? It is a blank statement to lump all manufacturers from one country together. Some are better, some are worse, no matter the country of origin. BTW, these "Japanese" vehicles that I speak of also get some of the worst mileage around...

It is not appropriate to tax based on engine displacement.....something more appropriate would be to tax on mpg ratings, which is already done at the pump.

Again, this is just a ploy to generate revenue. I highly doubt that the money will be used for anything "environmental"...

[Karadjas]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Hummm....what about those "Japanese" cars that are produced in the state in which I live? Where do those fall? It is a blank statement to lump all manufacturers from one country together. Some are better, some are worse, no matter the country of origin. BTW, these "Japanese" vehicles that I speak of also get some of the worst mileage around...

It is not appropriate to tax based on engine displacement.....something more appropriate would be to tax on mpg ratings, which is already done at the pump.

Again, this is just a ploy to generate revenue. I highly doubt that the money will be used for anything "environmental"...

It's not who makes them or where they're made, it's the design and quality control. Like stuff made in China, some are designed and QCed by chinese people and some are not.

You're right on the pump tax. Still, a displacement tax would be much more progressive where as a value added tax is regressive.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Karadjas

it's the design and quality control.

Exactly. You cant say that something is designed well because it of it's (or it's designer's) country of origin....

[Karadjas]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Exactly. You cant say that something is designed well because it of it's (or it's designer's) country of origin....

That's what I've come to understand empirically. Japanese cars don't break down but sometimes fall apart, (non-eastern)european cars don't fall apart but sometimes break down and most american cars will either break down or fall apart. By origin I don't mean the badge or where it's being built, but the design and its implementation.

[JeremyH]

Either way, no matter the vehicle, this tax should not be imposed in America. The UK imposes more (dollar amount and different taxes) taxes upon it's people because it provides different services for its people (free or partially paid for higher education, free health care, etc.) than America. For higher taxes to be considered appropriate, then our government needs to be doing something with the money. Not allowing a local government tax it's people, then waste the money....

[camel_rc]

Well living in Cali, I'm going to get screwed by the long dick of the law because I know the hippies are going to get their way as always. I call BS, my '72 Chevy C20 with a 350 (5.7L) gets 14 MPG if I granny drive it, my parent's POS Ford Windstar with a 3.8L gets 18 MPG at most, my brother's '85 Yota 4x4 on 35's with 22R gets 16 MPG on cold days.

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by camel_rc

Well living in Cali, I'm going to get screwed by the long dick of the law because I know the hippies are going to get their way as always. I call BS, my '72 Chevy C20 with a 350 (5.7L) gets 14 MPG if I granny drive it, my parent's POS Ford Windstar with a 3.8L gets 18 MPG at most, my brother's '85 Yota 4x4 on 35's with 22R gets 16 MPG on cold days.

Do you also like every other meat head in this post not understand anything?

MPG isn't the only factor in pollution. Its the emissions that is the problem, hence many states toying with Emission control mandates again. Sure you can make the claims above, but the 18MPG Windstar pollutes less than the old not emmisions systems in the '72 C20.

Its all about output. A 454 will output more exhaust than a 2.0 liter engine everytime. Its all based on intake and exhaust and believe it or not combusion size and amount of combustion chambers = more exhaust.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

Do you also like every other meat head in this post not understand anything?

Well hell, now we are all enlightened now that you came along....

Sounds like you are right up there with those lying professional politicians...