I was waiting for these to surface

[JasonInAugusta]

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...0.html?cnn=yes

As American drivers groan over prices nearing $4 a gallon, the French are paying $8.67 for a gallon of super

One big reason for the difference is that European governments put a much higher tax burden on fuel than the U.S. does. State and federal taxes currently make up just 11% of the pump price in the U.S., according to the Energy Information Administration; in France and the U.K., taxes account for an average of around 70%.

So...

Here in the states...
11% of that $4 per gallon is 44 cents that goes to the gov't. $3.56 (after taxes) is going to pay for the actual fuel.

In France...
70% of $8.67 is $6.06 that goes to the gov't. (have to pay for that "Free" healthcare somehow) That means $2.61 is what the folks in France are actually paying (after taxes) for a gallon of fuel.

So although the price is listed as higher per gallon, it's purely 'cause the Europeans have such high tax rates on fuel.

Just a thought.

[Cloak]

You're letting facts get in the way of the rest of the world hatin' on the US, man. That's not fair internet debating there. ;)

[Reflection]

Take it for what it is,just what I read in the paper in the break room at work the otherday.

The U.S. uses 25% of the total oil produced in the world.

The U.S. is only 4% of the total population of the world.

Kinda makes you think.....oil addiction is worse than any drug problem we have.

[JasonInAugusta]

Originally Posted by raptorman57

Take it for what it is,just what I read in the paper in the break room at work the otherday.

The U.S. uses 25% of the total oil produced in the world.

The U.S. is only 4% of the total population of the world.

Funny thing is that the justification for the pricing doesn't focus on US demand, but the increased demand of "emerging" countries like China and India.

What's worse is that barrels of oil are traded using the US dollar. So common sense says that as the value of the dollar in the global market decreases it'll take more dollars to buy that same barrel of oil (again, global market) as the value of the dollar goes down.

I see a pattern emerging here, will be interesting to see if it plays out the way I'm thinking it will.

[Karadjas]

Originally Posted by Cloak

You're letting facts get in the way of the rest of the world hatin' on the US, man. That's not fair internet debating there. ;)

You don't want to talk facts

Noone ever said the price difference wasn't due to the taxes. The only thing I recall reading online on this subject (and that was some time ago), was that you lot have the most inelastic demand for oil and that's why the oil companies can milk you. Your government's choice to tax oil very lightly is not making matters better (I'm a die-hard capitalist btw), as the total fuel bill is still not large enough to make ppl stay clear of 10mpg 5-tonne trucks.
China's ever increasing demand for oil and the movement of oil producing countries towards using the euro instead of the dollar for oil trade, depreciating the dollar, is what brought forward what you think to be a huge hike in fuel prices.

WTF, I forgot what I was trying to say. ANW, the facts remain, you pay $4, we pay $8.67 at the pumps. Your government is trying its best to let you keep some of your money and you're still not satisfied.

[montana.matt]

Originally Posted by raptorman57

Kinda makes you think.....oil addiction is worse than any drug problem we have.

I don't see where the price of fuel is really a laughing matter. I drive a truck for a living, and with Diesel fuel at $4.60+ a gallon here in Montana, my employer, like many others around the country, are contemplating shutting down because they can't afford fuel.
What will happen when the grocery store doesn't get stocked, because the truck driver that hauls the produce and/or dry goods can't afford fuel? Or, what will happen when your LHS/favorite vendor can't stock the parts you need because the container that was offloaded from a ship can't make it to a Dist/Warehouse because the truck that hauls the container can't afford fuel....
I heard on the news today that the national average for a gallon of gas has gone up 21 cents in 21 days... a new record

[Karadjas]

Originally Posted by montana.matt

I don't see where the price of fuel is really a laughing matter. I drive a truck for a living, and with Diesel fuel at $4.60+ a gallon here in Montana, my employer, like many others around the country, are contemplating shutting down because they can't afford fuel.
What will happen when the grocery store doesn't get stocked, because the truck driver that hauls the produce and/or dry goods can't afford fuel? Or, what will happen when your LHS/favorite vendor can't stock the parts you need because the container that was offloaded from a ship can't make it to a Dist/Warehouse because the truck that hauls the container can't afford fuel....
I heard on the news today that the national average for a gallon of gas has gone up 21 cents in 21 days... a new record

It's called inflation. Charge more for truckin' services, then customers will charge more for theirs, wages will go up, wage-price spiral, inflation. Everyone faces the same fuel costs, if you can't compete with the rest in the industry then you need to look into factors other than fuel price.

[Speedyboy]

To go with the 25% oil usage and us only being 4% of the population...
The U.S. is large and spread out... of course we use more oil.
Yes we abuse it in someways...But a lot of us have no Public Trans and way to far to ride our bikes everywhere (and have time for other things)

[Karadjas]

If it were down to just commuting or everyday travel, it would not be 25% for 4%. The figures don't seem very plausible... American heavy industries are pretty clean and I think you use alternative sources of power for power stations?

[montana.matt]

Originally Posted by Karadjas

It's called inflation. Charge more for truckin' services, then customers will charge more for theirs, wages will go up, wage-price spiral, inflation. Everyone faces the same fuel costs, if you can't compete with the rest in the industry then you need to look into factors other than fuel price.

Too bad that's not how it happens in the real world When you go to the shipper and ask for an increase in freight rates to cover the rising cost of fuel, they basically laugh you out the door because they know there is always somebody out there that is big enough (or dumb enough) to haul the same freight for less money....

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by montana.matt

I don't see where the price of fuel is really a laughing matter. I drive a truck for a living, and with Diesel fuel at $4.60+ a gallon here in Montana, my employer, like many others around the country, are contemplating shutting down because they can't afford fuel.
What will happen when the grocery store doesn't get stocked, because the truck driver that hauls the produce and/or dry goods can't afford fuel? Or, what will happen when your LHS/favorite vendor can't stock the parts you need because the container that was offloaded from a ship can't make it to a Dist/Warehouse because the truck that hauls the container can't afford fuel....
I heard on the news today that the national average for a gallon of gas has gone up 21 cents in 21 days... a new record

Yeah,the price of fuel is pretty pathetic...I agree. (It's $4.60 here to) The oil prices could and possibly are starting to choke this country to death. If the stores run out of things to sell,they'll go belly up.

I guess we'll have to see how the government is gonna help us out here.....


HA! Thats funny.


A part of me can't help but think if EVERY truck stopped moving,it'd help. If there wasn't anything to buy,they'd have to do something cause there'd be riots and mass chaos from all the people doing whatever it took to get something to eat. Do I want the trucks to stop,no. My dad drives a truck as well as ALLOT of people I know. I hate to hear your situation.

We are all spoiled in the fact that everything we need is at our fingertips. Allot of people would be screwed if they had to fend for themselves for food and shelter.

[Offroader5]

Originally Posted by Karadjas

It's called inflation. Charge more for truckin' services, then customers will charge more for theirs, wages will go up, wage-price spiral, inflation. Everyone faces the same fuel costs, if you can't compete with the rest in the industry then you need to look into factors other than fuel price.

No, unfortunately...it's not called inflation. It would be inflation if prices of goods, wages, and big industry margins went up at the same or near the same rate. The issue is when the oil companies are asked why gas prices are so high...they really never have a definitive answer. That is why the oil companies have posted their largest and most profitable years just recently. And no, it's not because prices are more which would push sales numbers up...it's reported as the margin dollars, meaning more profit.

Also...no, wages will not simply go up. Just because costs rise doesn't mean that everything goes up with them. Right now, prices continue to soar and the "inflation" of these companies prices can't follow right along side it...it doesn't work that way. This means that product goes up, prices may go up...but not in the same factor, and then due to the companies spending more to get the same product or service, their expenses are going up and I guarantee....wages are not following along. If wages were following right along with rising costs (which would constitute inflation and inflation adjustment), then we wouldn't have anything to complain about since the ratio of rising fuel costs would closely match wage increases.

[montana.matt]

Originally Posted by raptorman57

Yeah,the price of fuel is pretty pathetic...I agree. (It's $4.60 here to) The oil prices could and possibly are starting to choke this country to death. If the stores run out of things to sell,they'll go belly up.

I guess we'll have to see how the government is gonna help us out here.....


HA! Thats funny.


A part of me can't help but think if EVERY truck stopped moving,it'd help. If there wasn't anything to buy,they'd have to do something cause there'd be riots and mass chaos from all the people doing whatever it took to get something to eat. Do I want the trucks to stop,no. My dad drives a truck as well as ALLOT of people I know. I hate to hear your situation.

We are all spoiled in the fact that everything we need is at our fingertips. Allot of people would be screwed if they had to fend for themselves for food and shelter.

That's what most people don't understand.... 99% of your material belongings were transported by a truck at one point or another...
If the trucks stopped for less than 24 hours, this country would be in ruins.... of course it will never happen because there are big companies like Swift Trucking, JB Hunt, Schneider, etc., etc. that can afford the high price of diesel fuel and staff their trucks with "warm bodies".
"If you bought it, a truck brought it" is 100% true
It's not just the price of diesel, either.... Ever wonder how many people can't afford to commute back and forth to work? Up where I live, it's not uncommon to have a 200+ mile round trip commute to work... No option for public transit...

[montana.matt]

Originally Posted by Karadjas

It's called inflation....

The only real inflation going on is the profits of the oil companies. They are inflating at record levels

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by Offroader5

No, unfortunately...it's not called inflation. It would be inflation if prices of goods, wages, and big industry margins went up at the same or near the same rate. The issue is when the oil companies are asked why gas prices are so high...they really never have a definitive answer. That is why the oil companies have posted their largest and most profitable years just recently. And no, it's not because prices are more which would push sales numbers up...it's reported as the margin dollars, meaning more profit.

Also...no, wages will not simply go up. Just because costs rise doesn't mean that everything goes up with them. Right now, prices continue to soar and the "inflation" of these companies prices can't follow right along side it...it doesn't work that way. This means that product goes up, prices may go up...but not in the same factor, and then due to the companies spending more to get the same product or service, their expenses are going up and I guarantee....wages are not following along. If wages were following right along with rising costs (which would constitute inflation and inflation adjustment), then we wouldn't have anything to complain about since the ratio of rising fuel costs would closely match wage increases.

X2.......and the oil producers/suppliers are screwing us all....many places around the world...except in the Middle East.

[tony tt]

i don't know what you guys are really complaining about. i live in alberta canada,,where most of your oil comes from...in fact i work at syncrude in fort mcmurray where the actual oil is pulled from the ground and processed and shipped to you guys i live on it and drive over it to get to work,,,and i/we pay $1.45 a liter for diesel. that works out to roughly $6.30 a gallon. when i can literally bend over and grab a handful of dirt,,squeeze it,,and the oil oozes out between my fingers...then pay that much for it at the pumps...it just drives me nuts

[montana.matt]

Originally Posted by Natedog

X2.......and the oil producers/suppliers are screwing us all....many places around the world...except in the Middle East.

Yeah, and what's the price of gas in Iraq? Something like 5 cents a gallon? To make it worse, WE are subsidizing them

[montana.matt]

Originally Posted by tony tt

i don't know what you guys are really complaining about. i live in alberta canada,,where most of your oil comes from...

Depends on where you buy your fuel/gas...

[Karadjas]

Originally Posted by montana.matt

Too bad that's not how it happens in the real world When you go to the shipper and ask for an increase in freight rates to cover the rising cost of fuel, they basically laugh you out the door because they know there is always somebody out there that is big enough (or dumb enough) to haul the same freight for less money....

Those "dumb enough" will go belly up very soon. In a competitive industry your costs must be equal to your cheapest competitor, or your service better be twice as good for a 10% deviation.

Originally Posted by Offroader5

No, unfortunately...it's not called inflation. It would be inflation if prices of goods, wages, and big industry margins went up at the same or near the same rate. The issue is when the oil companies are asked why gas prices are so high...they really never have a definitive answer. That is why the oil companies have posted their largest and most profitable years just recently. And no, it's not because prices are more which would push sales numbers up...it's reported as the margin dollars, meaning more profit.

Also...no, wages will not simply go up. Just because costs rise doesn't mean that everything goes up with them. Right now, prices continue to soar and the "inflation" of these companies prices can't follow right along side it...it doesn't work that way. This means that product goes up, prices may go up...but not in the same factor, and then due to the companies spending more to get the same product or service, their expenses are going up and I guarantee....wages are not following along. If wages were following right along with rising costs (which would constitute inflation and inflation adjustment), then we wouldn't have anything to complain about since the ratio of rising fuel costs would closely match wage increases.

Oil is the ultimate raw material, the ultimate cost. Everything needs to be transported and every mode of transport needs oil. The increase in the cost of oil will be relfected on the price of everything. A 50% increase in oil prices will not make a Kit-Kat that used to cost $1 cost $1.50 now, if that's what you mean by same factor. It's elementary economics guys. It will not settle at the exact same spot, oil expenditure will not be the exact same proportion of your expenditure as before and you will not be as well off with the income effect of the increase in wages (that WILL come if employees have even the slightest hint of power) alone. The only way to be as well off or better off is to incorporate some substitution effect in there, get those budget constraints moving along those indifference curves. You have probably heard this a million times and it will make my whole rant seem totally unnecessary since you already know this, but you need to step away from oil.

Great, I just spent 10 minutes getting to a conclusion everyone already knew :/

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by tony tt

i don't know what you guys are really complaining about. i live in alberta canada,,where most of your oil comes from...in fact i work at syncrude in fort mcmurray where the actual oil is pulled from the ground and processed and shipped to you guys i live on it and drive over it to get to work,,,and i/we pay $1.45 a liter for diesel. that works out to roughly $6.30 a gallon.

you thought the health care was really free?