Anyone else see a problem with this?

[JIA's Dad]

And so begins the conversion of our economy as we know it. Soon to be merged with Canada and Mexico. Get ready for the merger. Soon they will say the only way to save the dollar and the economy it to change our currancy to the AMERO and do the merger. BUSH haas already sold us out. That's a known fact.

[JasonInAugusta]

Yeah, when I first heard about the Amero I figured it would never happen, Americans wouldn't want to give up the dollar...unless something happened to make people want a new form of currency.

What better way to do that than to hurt the economy and ruin the value of the dollar?

[Nova's Ark]

Originally Posted by 4link4eva

What you guys don't see is the effect that the US economy has on the rest of the world.

As the main economical superpower, if your economy goes tits-up, so does the Brits. So does the French. So does the Chinese. So does any and every country that is not entirely self sufficient.

There's a lot more at stake here than you might realize.

Exactly. We are a globalized economy. Thousands of bad home loans were jumbled into mutual funds and sold world wide. Our bad housing debt is intertwined into way more that the average person realizes.

However, for the short term, I believe the fed nationalizing Fannie and Freddie is construed as making the dollar positive (stronger) and hurting precious metals, oil, wheat, etc. The dollar will breaks $0.80 next week and gold will head down to $725 and oil will fall as well. The dollar will gain as the euro will fall. Two months ago, the dollar was on the verge of collapse and oversold. The short covering augments their move. It is a brilliant play to strengthen the dollar and weaken Iran, Russia and Venezuela. This will keep countries like China, Japan and others buying our bonds and dollars.

Long term, the fundamental problems are still the same. A recession is immanent and a possible depression at worst. At best this puts the dollar problems on hold, from immediate to short term.

Originally Posted by JasonInAugusta

Yeah, when I first heard about the Amero I figured it would never happen, Americans wouldn't want to give up the dollar...unless something happened to make people want a new form of currency.

What better way to do that than to hurt the economy and ruin the value of the dollar?

Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel is the hero of almost every politician. He is most noted for coming up with theHegelian dialectic. The Hegelian dialectic is the framework for guiding our thoughts and actions into conflicts that lead us to a predetermined solution.

Some would say 9-11 was an example of the Hegelian dialectic. The goal was to get the American people to support a war that had already been planned out / predetermined. Under peace, no one would have ever supported a war in Iraq and Afghanistan, but kill 3000 innocent Americans and the people will support any retaliation.

[2JSC]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Sure they do......a ride back to their country topped off with a boot in the ass....or they can rot in our jails for breaking the laws of this country.

Keeping them in our jails won't do anything but give them free room and board plus 3 meals a day with a free gym!

[JIA's Dad]

My question is where is our government getting the money to sure up Fannie and Freddy? Is China going to step to the plate again after already backing the tax refund. Our government has to borrow from someone cause they don't have the cash to float the boat. Problem is the dollar is only worth what other countries support it with. If you don't believe that wait til they ask for repayment of that tax refund and the US government says sorry bought your luck, we're just a little short.

[Robb]

I got to thinking about how f-ed up the mortgage lending system is today.

I had an ol' school professor in college (so, this was about a decade ago) teach that lenders "usually" require an applicant to meet the minimum requirement of "total mortgage payment equal to about 1/4 of monthly gross income." To simplify that a bit, one's mortgage payment should be about the equivalent of one's one week gross income. Example: if you earned $1000 gross per week, you should have a mortgage payment of about $1000 a month.

Within the past six months, a coworker of mine purchased her first home (this would be after the foreclosure "boom" started). I will try to stay away from exact monetary amounts, but she basically got pre-approved, and ended up spending, for a loan that costs her about three weeks net (take home) pay. To sum that up, 3/4 of what she takes home a month is spent just in her mortgage payment. Granted, she has a long term boyfriend that pitches in.............but contractually speaking, the mortgage is solely in her name, and her responsibility.

Her mortgage payment is just around twice as much as mine, and I make about 2.5 times the income that she does. I meet my old professor's requirement about twice-fold, but even with that, there are many times (like now) where the ends are hard to meet at the end of the month. To be honest, I wouldn't want a mortgage payment of what I make (gross) in a week..................even that seems "limiting" to me. I hate to think anything negative will happen to her in the future, but if she experiences ANY financial crisis in the near future, there is a good chance she will lose her home.

I bring this example forward just to show a point. Even months into 2008, after EVERYONE knew that lenders were giving too much to too many.............the lending requirements were still WAY off. Even as lenders are losing big time on foreclosures, they are still giving loans to those that have a good chance of not being able to meet the requirements of the loan.




The only good I see from the gov't takeover of FM/FM is this: THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE SHAKEN UP, AND RE-EVALUATED!!!!

Just ran a couple of quick numbers of the 1950s against the 2000s. The mean home cost/yearly income ratio was in the ballpark of 2.5:1 in the '50s, and somewhere around 6.5:1 in the '00s. House prices are just insane these days................with no income/inflation variable to support why. To me, they are just flying high because more and more people are allowed to purchase beyond their means because of loose lender practices!

We need to get house prices under check!!! The FM/FM crap is definitely going to f it up in the short term................but maybe the rattling of the system will lead to some long term advantageous changes!

[JasonInAugusta]

Originally Posted by Robb

Just ran a couple of quick numbers of the 1950s against the 2000s. The mean home cost/yearly income ratio was in the ballpark of 2.5:1 in the '50s, and somewhere around 6.5:1 in the '00s. House prices are just insane these days................with no income/inflation variable to support why. To me, they are just flying high because more and more people are allowed to purchase beyond their means because of loose lender practices!

We need to get house prices under check!!! The FM/FM crap is definitely going to f it up in the short term................but maybe the rattling of the system will lead to some long term advantageous changes!

To add to that you have the wonderful yearly statements from the county that say that your property value increased over the past year....So they can get more tax dollars from you.


I find it funny that the county says the property values have increased when folks can't sell their houses for what the county says they're worth.

The market says one thing, those wishing to collect taxes say the exact opposite.

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by JasonInAugusta

Yeah, when I first heard about the Amero I figured it would never happen, Americans wouldn't want to give up the dollar...unless something happened to make people want a new form of currency.

What better way to do that than to hurt the economy and ruin the value of the dollar?

X2 Exactly!
People will be dumb enough to believe that the Amero is the solution.
Unfortunately, the next step is a one world government.:-(

[Nova's Ark]

Debt = Slavery

Our Government and the World Bankers want people entrenched in a web of debt. If you didn't owe money to debtors, would you work as much or as hard? Would you stay at a crappy job you can't stand? Common sense was thrown out the windows years ago and our society is material driven. People feel pressured to have it all and advertising tells them they should. Bankers allow people to buy into the lies by supplying the loans for cars, homes, stuff, etc.

The government takeover of FM & FM is nothing but Socialized Capitalism. How much longer will it be before they do it with General Motors? We are headed down a scary road that leads to Socialism and totalitarianism. If the government now owns or controls FM & FM, does that mean they will use the FBI or Federal police to come and collect the notes on the mortgages? Will they use other means not available to FM & FM to collect the money owed them?

Our country has veered so far from the original constitution. If our founding fathers were alive today they would probably commit suicide from what we have allowed our country to become. Our founding fathers fought a war against the British for only a %10 tax!!! Between property tax, federal income tax, gas tax, state income tax, sales tax, payroll tax, we are at roughly %35 tax of our income.

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by Nova's Ark

Debt = Slavery

Our Government and the World Bankers want people entrenched in a web of debt. If you didn't owe money to debtors, would you work as much or as hard? Would you stay at a crappy job you can't stand? Common sense was thrown out the windows years ago and our society is material driven. People feel pressured to have it all and advertising tells them they should. Bankers allow people to buy into the lies by supplying the loans for cars, homes, stuff, etc.

The government takeover of FM & FM is nothing but Socialized Capitalism. How much longer will it be before they do it with General Motors? We are headed down a scary road that leads to Socialism and totalitarianism. If the government now owns or controls FM & FM, does that mean they will use the FBI or Federal police to come and collect the notes on the mortgages? Will they use other means not available to FM & FM to collect the money owed them?

Our country has veered so far from the original constitution. If our founding fathers were alive today they would probably commit suicide from what we have allowed our country to become. Our founding fathers fought a war against the British for only a %10 tax!!! Between property tax, federal income tax, gas tax, state income tax, sales tax, payroll tax, we are at roughly %35 tax of our income.

Precisely!

[MommaBear]

I have worked for an attorney/ title company for the past seven years. There were two things that led to this. Mortgage brokers were the root. Mortgage brokers are sold as people who negotiate with lenders to get you the best deal. However, what they don't tell you is that the lender pays them a premium for selling the loan to you. Your interest rate could have been bought down with this money, but it goes into the broker's pocket. The other part was everyone getting stars in their eyes and doing what has been mentioned before: buying for the maximum amount for which they qualified rather than what they could afford (one week's pay for their house payment).
I will say that times were really bad in the 80's when interest rates were at 18% or thereabout. The house my grandparents live in now. The guy that built them was paying that on construction loans and they sat for a really long time.

My boss from two years ago is a developer and knows the market like no one else I have ever met. He had told me then that this would happen and is part of the way the economy just goes up and down. What goes up must come down and vice versa. I think if everyone will just stop being so scared by what they hear on the news, it won't be so bad. I know there are other things happening. But it's like with gas. The news reports daily what gas costs. If they would shut the f*** up, they wouldn't be given the oil industry "permission" to do so. Also like here in the south. They report we'll get snow and there's not a gallon of milk or loaf of bread to be found. Just like what happened here in the last couple of days. There's been a run on fuel, b/c all the mindless morons listen to every word on the news and ran out to get some before the hurricane left us all stranded with no fuel. Funny how they didn't report there was no reason to worry, b/c EPA temporarily lifted their restrictions on the amount of fuel they allowed to be pumped through the gas lines.
Just my .02

[MommaBear]

Originally Posted by Nova's Ark

Our country has veered so far from the original constitution. If our founding fathers were alive today they would probably commit suicide from what we have allowed our country to become. Our founding fathers fought a war against the British for only a %10 tax!!! Between property tax, federal income tax, gas tax, state income tax, sales tax, payroll tax, we are at roughly %35 tax of our income.

No kidding. But it's even more than 35% if you're self employed.

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by Nova's Ark

Exactly. We are a globalized economy. Thousands of bad home loans were jumbled into mutual funds and sold world wide. Our bad housing debt is intertwined into way more that the average person realizes.

However, for the short term, I believe the fed nationalizing Fannie and Freddie is construed as making the dollar positive (stronger) and hurting precious metals, oil, wheat, etc. The dollar will breaks $0.80 next week and gold will head down to $725 and oil will fall as well. The dollar will gain as the euro will fall. Two months ago, the dollar was on the verge of collapse and oversold. The short covering augments their move. It is a brilliant play to strengthen the dollar and weaken Iran, Russia and Venezuela. This will keep countries like China, Japan and others buying our bonds and dollars.

Long term, the fundamental problems are still the same. A recession is immanent and a possible depression at worst. At best this puts the dollar problems on hold, from immediate to short term.




Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel is the hero of almost every politician. He is most noted for coming up with theHegelian dialectic. The Hegelian dialectic is the framework for guiding our thoughts and actions into conflicts that lead us to a predetermined solution.

Some would say 9-11 was an example of the Hegelian dialectic. The goal was to get the American people to support a war that had already been planned out / predetermined. Under peace, no one would have ever supported a war in Iraq and Afghanistan, but kill 3000 innocent Americans and the people will support any retaliation.

you sir give me faith that there are some americans with a brain out there.