gray area for Nissan owners

[crunky]

i hope this isn't headed me towards hot water, i'm simply trying to pass out a helper that was passed to me.


ok here go to this site, its FSM's for guys 2000-2009.

i will post a link to a link.
that should get us far enough away fom the gray area of copyright.

The question of whether one can be liable for copyright infringement even if one does not copy the protected material is still open in a number contexts. There does not appear to be a definitive answer on whether posting a link to a site for copying the protected material (yes, viewing material from a web page is a form of copying that material since it is copied into the computers memory) gives rise to any liabilty.

mods feel free to remove if needed.
look through my link to find a post with the motherload.
NEXterra.org

[Mr.Slave]

flying spaghetti monster?

[JeremyH]

In my opinion, when you purchase a car, it should come with the FSM. The dealership/manufacturer should not build a car and leave the user COMPLETELY out of the loop. They are making vehicles these days that are way too proprietary....which is not acceptable to me (and I am sure to others who like to repair their own vehicles).

I work with VERY expensive machines (~$5mill each) and each one we buy, comes with EVERY wiring diagram and repair manual that the user could possibly need. Vehicles should be the same...

[chrisjlittle]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

In my opinion, when you purchase a car, it should come with the FSM. The dealership/manufacturer should not build a car and leave the user COMPLETELY out of the loop. They are making vehicles these days that are way too proprietary....which is not acceptable to me (and I am sure to others who like to repair their own vehicles).

I work with VERY expensive machines (~$5mill each) and each one we buy, comes with EVERY wiring diagram and repair manual that the user could possibly need. Vehicles should be the same...

Frankly I'm kinda glad most owners are so far out of the loop. As a mechanic I hate cleaning up after people who try to fix their cars and just mess them up worse. I'm far more bothered that every different manufacturer has a different setup for flashing ECM's, all of which are very expensive. OBDIII standardization is way overdue.

[JeremyH]

Well, I have repaired my fair share of cars....and am not scared to attempt the majority of repairs that vehicles need. I do know my limits (auto trannys) and will take my vehicle in for certain repairs.

I've flashed the ECM on my Jeep and it didn't cost a dime. Not sure of the procedure on other vehicles.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by chrisjlittle

Frankly I'm kinda glad most owners are so far out of the loop. As a mechanic I hate cleaning up after people who try to fix their cars and just mess them up worse. I'm far more bothered that every different manufacturer has a different setup for flashing ECM's, all of which are very expensive. OBDIII standardization is way overdue.

I agree ....... there are just some things owners dont need to know or try and fix. im on the wholesale side of the parts world and nothing irritates me more then a customer trying to tell me they want to return something because it didnt fix their problem.

as for the OBD side of things ..... OBD3 has its pro's and cons but the manufacturers are fighting it because they want you back at the dealers.

But dont get me wrong, im all for doing your own repairs as long as your smart enough to know whats over your head before you do it.

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I agree ....... there are just some things owners dont need to know or try and fix. im on the wholesale side of the parts world and nothing irritates me more then a customer trying to tell me they want to return something because it didnt fix their problem.


But dont get me wrong, im all for doing your own repairs as long as your smart enough to know whats over your head before you do it.

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

Lately I've been quite the ass when it comes to selling parts. I tell almost every customer that once they buy a part, it's theirs.... if it fits or not, electrical, body or mechanical...no returns. If they assure me that they know what they are doing, then I'll be happy to take their money and I won't give it back.

I love taking money from those guys that like to keep replacing part after part after part to try to fix the problem.... too cheap to let a tech diagnose the real problem but have plenty of money to keep wasting away on parts that are not needed.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Not having a service manual sucks ass. I had to buy a bootlegged FSM off of the 'bay for my Montero just so I could do a tune up properly.

Vehicles are definately moving towards being unservicable at all by the owners. Pretty soon it'll be a trip to the stealership for an oil change because no one else has the ability to do it. I wouldn't be suprised if we see something in the computer that will trip after 3k miles and it'll run like poo untill the oil is changed and the required proprietary software is used to reset it.

I'm nearly at the point of picking up someting with a carburator and points again...

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I'm nearly at the point of picking up someting with a carburator and points again...

Yeah... and then complain about not being able to get parts any more

[soundcolor]

The most effed up part is, used to you could buy the FSM at the dealership if you wanted.
Now, alot of em wont even sell you one

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by soundcolor

The most effed up part is, used to you could buy the FSM at the dealership if you wanted.
Now, alot of em wont even sell you one

Lets see....
1) Sell you a FSM for $100 and don't see you that often
2) Don't sell you the manual and charge you $100/hr of shop time for every item that you need fixed

If you were the stealership, which would you choose?

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by toyofast

Yeah... and then complain about not being able to get parts any more

Good point. Though I was able to pick up a new Weber for my Mazda B2200.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by soundcolor

The most effed up part is, used to you could buy the FSM at the dealership if you wanted.
Now, alot of em wont even sell you one

You can't even get a Haynes or Chilton for late model cars/trucks. 1999 was the last year. Choad lickers...

[Mr.Slave]

Lol new cars.
my 88 s10 does everything a new 2wd truck does. for like 15000 bucks less

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by soundcolor

The most effed up part is, used to you could buy the FSM at the dealership if you wanted.
Now, alot of em wont even sell you one

I'll sell you a FSM, if it's available for a rig, I'll order it. Plain and simple. My parts department needs to make money just like the service department. Money talks.

[Cloak]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

flying spaghetti monster?

Glad I'm not the only one who read it that way the first time through.

[soundcolor]

Originally Posted by toyofast

I'll sell you a FSM, if it's available for a rig, I'll order it. Plain and simple. My parts department needs to make money just like the service department. Money talks.

I dont think you can even get one unless you a mitus dealer. They dont even put out a book anymore. Its all PDF files on a disk. I had a buddy copy the disk for me, so I have it.
I had actually tried to buy one from mitsu, and they wouldnt sell me one. I also tried to get a localish repair shop to get me one and mitsu wouldn't sell it to them.

But you can try. Its for an 08 mitsu outlander XLS

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by soundcolor

I dont think you can even get one unless you a mitus dealer. They dont even put out a book anymore. Its all PDF files on a disk. I had a buddy copy the disk for me, so I have it.
I had actually tried to buy one from mitsu, and they wouldnt sell me one. I also tried to get a localish repair shop to get me one and mitsu wouldn't sell it to them.

But you can try. Its for an 08 mitsu outlander XLS

Oh... perhaps you didn't know, but I work for Toyota/Lexus/Scion. Not Mitsubishi...

But... just for you, I'll call my contacts and see what they can pull up. Plus, I doubt many general repair shops will have a FSM, most likely they use Mitchell's rather than factory goods. Unless they are a specialty shop that are die-hard Mitsubishi folks and like to flip pages in a book.

[1BadJeepBruiser]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Not having a service manual sucks ass. I had to buy a bootlegged FSM off of the 'bay for my Montero just so I could do a tune up properly.

Vehicles are definately moving towards being unservicable at all by the owners. Pretty soon it'll be a trip to the stealership for an oil change because no one else has the ability to do it. I wouldn't be suprised if we see something in the computer that will trip after 3k miles and it'll run like poo untill the oil is changed and the required proprietary software is used to reset it.

I'm nearly at the point of picking up someting with a carburator and points again...

I am sure Toyo can relate to this...

While I was in the back part of the building being the frame hero, this older dude is like "hey I have a ?" so I climb out from my jig saw puzzle and put on my semi-non-asshole looking face and ask him whats up. He then proceeds to ask me if the parts dept is correct in the oil filter wrench he needs for his 09 sienna... He was all bent because the thing is like 40$ + he asked to see mine and when I showed him he was like " This is what I need?? I have one of these at home" I then tried to explain that its a different pattern from a regular oil filter and that you need the toyota one or the one AST (or ATS whatever it is) sells..He definitely did not look happy about that... I could definitely see him going at with a pair of water pump pliers trying to get it off

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by 1BadJeepBruiser

I am sure Toyo can relate to this...

While I was in the back part of the building being the frame hero, this older dude is like "hey I have a ?" so I climb out from my jig saw puzzle and put on my semi-non-asshole looking face and ask him whats up. He then proceeds to ask me if the parts dept is correct in the oil filter wrench he needs for his 09 sienna... He was all bent because the thing is like 40$ + he asked to see mine and when I showed him he was like " This is what I need?? I have one of these at home" I then tried to explain that its a different pattern from a regular oil filter and that you need the toyota one or the one AST (or ATS whatever it is) sells..He definitely did not look happy about that... I could definitely see him going at with a pair of water pump pliers trying to get it off

When folks want a filter wrench for their A1, A4, A6 and other similar cartridge style filters... I'll show them what my favorite tech uses and also refer them to Sears(out of all places), because I know none will want to wait 1-2 weeks for me to get the actual SST from those folks I'd have to call. If they don't like those options/answers... I'll tell them that I'm sure the service department would be happy to change their oil, use the correct oil and do it right the first time. Plus you'd get a free car wash.