The fuzz tracking your car with GPS. Without a warrant?

[Szczerba]

I know driving is a privilege and not a right but what about personal privacy in a car?

Your gunna have to ride your bicycle to your pot patch now!

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/27/...ex.html?hpt=T1

[JeremyH]

Driving is a provilege......but the vehicle is your personal property. I would be pissed if anything was placed on any of my personal property by anyone...

[4xFord]

Placing a tracking device on a vehicle is not a search and therefore does not require a warrant or probable cause. (Supreme Court Decision)

The article mentions the reasonable expectation of privacy (REP), that really only extends to situations where a person makes an effort to protect that expectation.

For example, they cannot open your door of your car and place the tracker in the vehicle, but they can place it anywhere on the vehicle that is exposed.

Another example, if your car is in your garage they cannot enter your garage (without warrant) and place the tracker on the vehicle.

Starbucks parking lot would be a clear example of when they can, because you knowingly have exposed your vehicle to the public and have no REP for the outer surface of your vehicle. (anyone can see or touch it)

[rock hard]

well as long as I dont get in to much trouble for planting lead in thier ars if I catch them.
even if they are clothed as officers,if its night its hard to tell whats what,if I hear or see crap going on around my property. someone is doing something they shouldnt be,cop or not,his butts getting shot.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by 4xFord

Placing a tracking device on a vehicle is not a search and therefore does not require a warrant or probable cause. (Supreme Court Decision)

Soooo....who would get the bill if I found the device and smashed it? If the device was on my car and I drove into my garage and found it, could I then legally sell it?

[4xFord]

Hmmm, State law covers title to property and I have no idea of when you would legally take title to it. Thats a completely seperate issue and concern than the OP.

I in no way advocate this police behavior. Another article I read about this says that other jurisdictions are differing this from the other case that I am familiar with that said tracking is not a search, by limiting the amount of time that it may be on a vehicle. Saying that "extended" periods is a 4th amendment violation.

[JeremyH]

Yeah, I was mostly being rhetorical with those questions....but it does seem to cause a problem. I do not like to see actions like this, however, I dont see this being used on people often. It would take quite a bit of manpower to run this effectively. I dont condone actions like this either.

It only seems like a 4th violation if these are being placed without probable cause for monitoring...

BTW, in the story, it says that the device was placed on the guy's car while it was in his driveway...

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

BTW, in the story, it says that the device was placed on the guy's car while it was in his driveway...

Thats what I question. I can agree with being parked in a Starbucks lot knowingly leaving my vehicle exposed but my driveway is my property.

Dont they need a reason to enter my property or are they saying their above that now?



BTW big bro already tracks us anyway, whats the difference between them putting a little GPS on your car vs the cell phone we all carry with ya thats by federal law required to have GPS ability.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by 4xFord

Placing a tracking device on a vehicle is not a search and therefore does not require a warrant or probable cause. (Supreme Court Decision)

The article mentions the reasonable expectation of privacy (REP), that really only extends to situations where a person makes an effort to protect that expectation.

For example, they cannot open your door of your car and place the tracker in the vehicle, but they can place it anywhere on the vehicle that is exposed.

Another example, if your car is in your garage they cannot enter your garage (without warrant) and place the tracker on the vehicle.

Starbucks parking lot would be a clear example of when they can, because you knowingly have exposed your vehicle to the public and have no REP for the outer surface of your vehicle. (anyone can see or touch it)

if I was an attourney I would argue that my client had rep when parked in the starbucks.
we dont expect the car to get dinged by another door,its just an accident.
now if someone purposly dints your car its not something you expect to happen.
nor do you expect the car to get bugged,painted,keyed,ect,ect,ect.

so to actually go behond the act of touching,to actually placing something on your car,especially in a place you cant see it I would call a militious act.

like for example,placing a bumper sticket to ones car while its parked out in public. its something you as a car owner didnt expect to happen,therfore take little to safeguard it from happening.

[Szczerba]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Thats what I question. I can agree with being parked in a Starbucks lot knowingly leaving my vehicle exposed but my driveway is my property.

Dont they need a reason to enter my property or are they saying their above that now?

That's what I was wondering. Where's the line defining personal property?

BTW big bro already tracks us anyway, whats the difference between them putting a little GPS on your car vs the cell phone we all carry with ya thats by federal law required to have GPS ability.

Only thing I can think of is that GPS is alot more accurate. And I assume once a cell phone is turned off it cannot transmit GPS location?

...

[rock hard]

but especially while in the driveway,if it happened in the drivway the I would believe an attourney have a stong chance I believe to covince a jury the client did have reasonable rep.

[microgoat]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Soooo....who would get the bill if I found the device and smashed it? If the device was on my car and I drove into my garage and found it, could I then legally sell it?

Drive to the mall, park, put the device on the car next to you, drive away

[TEDROCKZ]

Originally Posted by microgoat

Drive to the mall, park, put the device on the car next to you, drive away

Ha... good one. Found one on my cousins car last year while putting brake pads on it. Her ex was keeping tabs on her. I took it to the closest truck stop a put in on a OTR truck.

[dkf]

Shouldn't be allowed to place a tracking device on personal property without a judges approval IMO. Thats why the goverment couldn't let GM fail, Onstar on the vehicles from factory.

[BJoe]

Originally Posted by microgoat

Drive to the mall, park, put the device on the car next to you, drive away

Better yet, put it on an unattended cop car, preferably one from a nearby, "rural" county

Only thing I can think of is that GPS is alot more accurate. And I assume once a cell phone is turned off it cannot transmit GPS location?

IIRC cell phones can still be tracked if they are turned off since they're still putting out a weak signal, but if you can take the battery out of it once it's turned off........................

[canadianbacon]

I don't see how they're able to arrest the guy and charge him, especially under the circumstances for which the "evidence" was found. They placed the unit on his car in his driveway, which means they tresspassed onto said property to afix a tracking device to see whether he was growing dope or not. Isn't there some kind of law in the US that protects property (land, vehicle, etc.) owners against stuff like this? This is pretty much an invasion of privacy, whether he was growing dope or not is irrelevent. Now, like dkf said, if a judge approved this then by all means go ahead and do it, but to do it because they suspect he "might" be dong something and they have no other hard evidence against him is wrong IMO., regardless of what he did. You would have lawsuits out your arsehole if this happened here.

[rock hard]

well the problem is guys like that david rivkin. he says you cant expect pricacy of your property[my car] unless you put up a fence or put it in a garage.

now some cities have ordinances against a fence in the front yard.
and we all know that everyone can just drop the coin for a new garage.

no,I can absolutly expect that my belongings,while on my PRIVATE PROPERTY
also are subect to a level of PRIVACY.
I mean we cant keep people from looking at our stuff. but if its on your property then KNOWBODY,cop or not should be jacking with it.
that amount of privacy is absolutly expected.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by canadianbacon12

Now, like dkf said, if a judge approved this then by all means go ahead and do it, but to do it because they suspect he "might" be dong something and they have no other hard evidence against him is wrong IMO., regardless of what he did. You would have lawsuits out your arsehole if this happened here.

But how do you get a judge to approve a warrant for placing the GPS? You need to show him evidence, probable cause to track them, evidence of illegal things.

If they have the evidence that hes doing something illegal then why would they even need to track him?


I read something a few years ago about the OBD3 systems they are developing for newer cars. Privacy groups were fighting it because it would allow the EPA to monitor your vehicles running condition. When the engine light came on you would receive an email or letter telling you you had X amount of days to get it fixed. If you didnt then the ECM would shut the car down untill fixed and/or reset.

The Gvmnt doesnt need OnStar ..... they already own the satellites

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Soooo....who would get the bill if I found the device and smashed it? If the device was on my car and I drove into my garage and found it, could I then legally sell it?

yes

Originally Posted by 4xFord

Hmmm, State law covers title to property and I have no idea of when you would legally take title to it. Thats a completely seperate issue and concern than the OP.

I was raised that possesion is 9/10 of the law. they put it on your car its a gift,its yours.
just as if a flier is placed on your widshield.

[Twiztid Metal]

Take that sucker off of ya car and stick it too the nearest outastate semi and there ya go, your off to mexico!