RCCrawler Forums

losikid · 09-07-2011, 10:37 PM

This is a Q for those who work with dimension printers...

Will the dimension print material handle the stresses a crawler chassis has to support???

iamsuperbleeder · 09-07-2011, 11:14 PM

I'm by no means "in the field" or an expert on the subject, but I think they're more or less just for prototyping 3 dimensional objects, and I don't think the printed product is very structurally strong

BUT

depending on how complex the part is you're trying to make, you could probably print it, create a mold of it with plaster, and then melt some plastic or maybe even metal (if you can get enough metal hot enough), and try to cast the final product

Shoei1 · 09-08-2011, 01:57 AM

Light testing would be ok if you use abs+ material. No way though if you plan to really work the chassis. I have used abs+ for some parts but they had some beef to them. The dimension parts work great for make sure parts fit and move propertly like knuckles and C hubs. Flat stuff like chassis it just make more sense to get it laser cut.

losikid · 09-08-2011, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoei1

Light testing would be ok if you use abs+ material. No way though if you plan to really work the chassis. I have used abs+ for some parts but they had some beef to them. The dimension parts work great for make sure parts fit and move propertly like knuckles and C hubs. Flat stuff like chassis it just make more sense to get it laser cut.

I'd like to get 6 hours of testing, i won't try to be too abusive, just enough to get a good feeling on what needs to be changed and what not. I can print 5 chassis for the cost to get 1 cut here in town.

CPE MT · 09-08-2011, 07:04 AM

It will easily prove out your suspension layout and any clearances you've built in. You MIGHT be able to get away with actually running it, but I don't as they're usually fairly brittle.

Make it thicker than your production versions and you may be ok.

C*H*U*D · 09-08-2011, 08:06 AM

We have a Dimension here at work. The parts are strong but I can't see it holding together for very long under the stress a crawler can put out. Of course this depends on your design and how hard you are on it during your testing.

Is there a particular reason it has to be plastic other than the cost of machining? What is the final material going to be?

losikid · 09-08-2011, 09:43 AM

It'll be 1/8" delrin eventually, i'm working on a lcc replacment chassis.

Its just for testing, i don't plan on being too hard on it (falling off a cliff, jumping, etc)

Mostly just to test it till i have 20+ chassis cut out.

There's other structural elements, just haven't modeled them yet, this is just a sketch

Harley · 09-08-2011, 11:04 AM

A print of that will not hold up at all.

Having something like that cut really shouldn't cost more than $10 a chassis or less.

losikid · 09-08-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley

A print of that will not hold up at all.

Having something like that cut really shouldn't cost more than $10 a chassis or less.

Not when you add in the topper and machined skid, as a one off. I can print it for like $6-9. and have it when i want it.

It will have more support to keep it from folding in on itself if thats what your wondering/thinking...

CPE MT · 09-08-2011, 04:25 PM

That part won't last at all done up as a rapid prototype piece. Not if you're going to run it anyway.

losikid · 09-08-2011, 04:46 PM

explain, where's the fault...where will it break? The above is no where near the complete chassis, just a sketch i drew up of what the profile will be, it will be getting more beef to it

CPE MT · 09-08-2011, 05:10 PM

There may not be a fault in the actual design, but a rapid prototype part is brittle. Like I said before, we use them to prove out suspension and link locations, NOT to actually run them.

If nothing else, double up the thickness for your prototype if you still want to run it. Don't expect it to live though unless you add a bunch of bracing. Bracing that may not necessarily be needed if you were using the production material.

C*H*U*D · 09-08-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by losikid

...I can print it for like $6-9. and have it when i want it....

Well for that price, just get it printed and try it out. It's not like you're making a huge investment in it...if it breaks, then it breaks.

losikid · 09-08-2011, 06:44 PM

just wondering, if this material is so brittle...why can you make springs out of it?

CPE MT · 09-08-2011, 07:07 PM

Why ask for opinions, just have the chassis made and find out for yourself. You're not out much if it breaks.

losikid · 09-08-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPE MT

Why ask for opinions, just have the chassis made and find out for yourself. You're not out much if it breaks.

because, just trying to kill time...and $10 is 2 days worth of fuel to drive to school everyday, gotta pinch pennies

Also because i don't want it to crumble within 5 minutes and kill hours worth of work

Just trying to figure out if i can get afew non abusive hours out of it.

CPE MT · 09-08-2011, 07:58 PM

Since you're disagreed with everyone who has said you're likely to have issues, have at it. I'm sure it will be fine now.

Also, if you're that worried about a $10 R&D investment for your business, you shouldn't be in business...

C*H*U*D · 09-08-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPE MT

...if you're that worried about a $10 R&D investment for your business, you shouldn't be in business...

I hate to say it but he's right.

This looks like a very simple part to machine from 1/8" delrin. I don't know where you buy your delrin from but I have some laying around. If you really want to test this out with the material you intend to make it from, and if I have big enough pieces, I can make it for you. That way you can get some real information from your testing.

GySgt Hartman · 09-08-2011, 08:54 PM

I used a Stratasys Dimension printer for a chassis a couple of years ago. The material can be strengthened using thin CA and saturating the material. The piece I designed was thick enough that the forces it would be subjected to would unlikely break-it (I did carry a spare in case).

Looking at your planned design, I'd say the material will be subjected to forces that will make the structure fail.

C*H*U*D · 09-08-2011, 09:00 PM

If you look closely at the construction of his part, you can see why the chassis would break apart. The Dimension extrudes lines of plastic, layer by layer to make the part. 1/8" is not very thick for these lines to get strength from.

One thing I would do differently on Hartman's part though is print the part as a solid and drill the holes afterwards. I've done this with parts we make at work and the holes come out much better especially if they are intended to be tapped.

09-07-2011, 10:37 PM	#1
losikid Got Worms? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 6,116	3d printing---dimension This is a Q for those who work with dimension printers... Will the dimension print material handle the stresses a crawler chassis has to support???

09-07-2011, 11:14 PM	#2
iamsuperbleeder Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Lake City, Fl Posts: 380	I'm by no means "in the field" or an expert on the subject, but I think they're more or less just for prototyping 3 dimensional objects, and I don't think the printed product is very structurally strong BUT depending on how complex the part is you're trying to make, you could probably print it, create a mold of it with plaster, and then melt some plastic or maybe even metal (if you can get enough metal hot enough), and try to cast the final product

09-08-2011, 01:57 AM	#3
Shoei1 Rock Crawler Join Date: May 2007 Location: Corona, CA Posts: 581	Light testing would be ok if you use abs+ material. No way though if you plan to really work the chassis. I have used abs+ for some parts but they had some beef to them. The dimension parts work great for make sure parts fit and move propertly like knuckles and C hubs. Flat stuff like chassis it just make more sense to get it laser cut.

09-08-2011, 07:04 AM	#5
CPE MT RCC Addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Home of the ORIGINAL Terminator chassis Posts: 1,252	It will easily prove out your suspension layout and any clearances you've built in. You MIGHT be able to get away with actually running it, but I don't as they're usually fairly brittle. Make it thicker than your production versions and you may be ok.

09-08-2011, 08:06 AM	#6
CHU*D No idea what I'm doing Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Underground, CO Posts: 4,529	We have a Dimension here at work. The parts are strong but I can't see it holding together for very long under the stress a crawler can put out. Of course this depends on your design and how hard you are on it during your testing. Is there a particular reason it has to be plastic other than the cost of machining? What is the final material going to be?

09-08-2011, 09:43 AM	#7
losikid Got Worms? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 6,116	It'll be 1/8" delrin eventually, i'm working on a lcc replacment chassis. Its just for testing, i don't plan on being too hard on it (falling off a cliff, jumping, etc) Mostly just to test it till i have 20+ chassis cut out. There's other structural elements, just haven't modeled them yet, this is just a sketch

09-08-2011, 11:04 AM	#8
Harley 20K Club Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sending illegals home one Hayabusa at a time. Posts: 22,981	A print of that will not hold up at all. Having something like that cut really shouldn't cost more than $10 a chassis or less.

09-08-2011, 04:25 PM	#10
CPE MT RCC Addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Home of the ORIGINAL Terminator chassis Posts: 1,252	That part won't last at all done up as a rapid prototype piece. Not if you're going to run it anyway.

09-08-2011, 04:46 PM	#11
losikid Got Worms? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 6,116	explain, where's the fault...where will it break? The above is no where near the complete chassis, just a sketch i drew up of what the profile will be, it will be getting more beef to it

09-08-2011, 05:10 PM	#12
CPE MT RCC Addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Home of the ORIGINAL Terminator chassis Posts: 1,252	There may not be a fault in the actual design, but a rapid prototype part is brittle. Like I said before, we use them to prove out suspension and link locations, NOT to actually run them. If nothing else, double up the thickness for your prototype if you still want to run it. Don't expect it to live though unless you add a bunch of bracing. Bracing that may not necessarily be needed if you were using the production material.

09-08-2011, 06:44 PM	#14
losikid Got Worms? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 6,116	just wondering, if this material is so brittle...why can you make springs out of it?

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09-08-2011, 07:07 PM	#15
CPE MT RCC Addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Home of the ORIGINAL Terminator chassis Posts: 1,252	Why ask for opinions, just have the chassis made and find out for yourself. You're not out much if it breaks.

09-08-2011, 07:58 PM	#17
CPE MT RCC Addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Home of the ORIGINAL Terminator chassis Posts: 1,252	Since you're disagreed with everyone who has said you're likely to have issues, have at it. I'm sure it will be fine now. Also, if you're that worried about a $10 R&D investment for your business, you shouldn't be in business...

09-08-2011, 08:54 PM	#19
GySgt Hartman I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: * Posts: 2,274	I used a Stratasys Dimension printer for a chassis a couple of years ago. The material can be strengthened using thin CA and saturating the material. The piece I designed was thick enough that the forces it would be subjected to would unlikely break-it (I did carry a spare in case). Looking at your planned design, I'd say the material will be subjected to forces that will make the structure fail.

09-08-2011, 09:00 PM	#20
CHU*D No idea what I'm doing Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Underground, CO Posts: 4,529	If you look closely at the construction of his part, you can see why the chassis would break apart. The Dimension extrudes lines of plastic, layer by layer to make the part. 1/8" is not very thick for these lines to get strength from. One thing I would do differently on Hartman's part though is print the part as a solid and drill the holes afterwards. I've done this with parts we make at work and the holes come out much better especially if they are intended to be tapped.

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