Handfull o' motors!

[Duuuuuuuude]

I've recent stepped up from an old 27t motor to a 65t. Love the torque, hate the snails pace speed.

I have in my parts bin: 10t quad, 17t, 19t, and the 27t.

I'm wondering if some type of Frankenstein motor might be in order here. I'm also thinking about trying my hand at rewinding either the 10 or 27 to somewhere in the 30's or 40's.

Here's the lowdown on my drivetrain...either 9 or 13t pinion at my disposal, 72t spur, trans is roughly 2.8:1, diffs are stock Maxx units. Running 6 cell stick packs.

Any idea's from the motor guru's out there?

[Red Dog Racing]

Yeah give it a go, but for the price i'd just buy somethung like a 45t Lathe motor I run them in all my rigs lovem even on a two cell lipo with stock AX10 trany good wheel speed and good control.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Decided that after the holidays my 10t is going to get torn apart and rewound. Its fairly old though, I wonder if the magnets have lost some of thier power...? I've heard that you can have a can "zapped" to restore some of its magnetic properties. Anyone have any experience with this?

[Flip]

Unless your motor has gotten hot enough to fry eggs on, I wouldn't worry about rezapping the magnets.

[JohnRobHolmes]

You could throw that 27t arm in your 10t can, and set the timing at zero. Would be a pretty good motor most likely.

[Duuuuuuuude]

I got the 10t used, I have no idea if its gotten hot or not. It seems to run fine and fast, but will kill a battery pretty quick when it was in my TC3 so I never had much interest in it.

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

You could throw that 27t arm in your 10t can, and set the timing at zero. Would be a pretty good motor most likely.

Ah, thats the kind of info I was looking for! That works very well for me because they're older and I don't really care too much about either one. The 17 & 19 are fairly new and I'd hate to take a chance and destroy them.

I may go as far as swapping arms today to see what happens. Still plan to rewind the 10, just for the experience if nothing else...

[Robbob]

measure your comm also, the closer you get to .063 in diameter the less time you have to use it. if your around .075ish area might not be worth the time but runnable for a bit.


id agree with JRH, youll get a good range of wheel speed and torque using the 27T.



alot of the brushed motor builders have can zappers if you think yours needs it. you can usually feel dead spots in the field by rotating the arm in the can once its built. the softer the snap between poles the weaker the magnets but each cans different too.

just my thoughts

[grasscutter]

what kind of esc are you running? if you can handle a 7c battery pack then that'll help a little, you can run a 45 or 55 and play with gearing and get wheel speed and still have crawling!

[Duuuuuuuude]

I'm running an old xl-1 that is dire need of replacement. I smoked it and managed to do a hail-mary repair on it about 6 months ago. The fact that its missing a heat sink doesn't help matters much...lol. It'll handle a 7 cell, though its replacement will be something that will do 8 minimum.

Any budget minded recomendations? I was looking at either the new E-maxx unit, a Rooster Crawler, or one of those Goped esc's that I've been reading about...

[Duuuuuuuude]

Had a few minutes this afternoon and put the 27 arm in the 10 can. Got lots of speed, torque was fair. Wiped out the battery fairly fast too. Battery was hot, speed control was hot, motor was hot, even the wires were hot. Did notice that the comm is pretty hammered, it needs cleaned up quite a bit. Also, the arm is split, as in the metal "arms" are not a solid peice top to bottom. Looks like the middle was cut out of them.

Anyway, I'll probably go back to the 65t for the time being. I'll rewind the 10t armature next week sometime. I'll keep ya'll posted.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Had a few minutes this afternoon and put the 27 arm in the 10 can. Got lots of speed, torque was fair. Wiped out the battery fairly fast too. Battery was hot, speed control was hot, motor was hot, even the wires were hot. Did notice that the comm is pretty hammered, it needs cleaned up quite a bit. Also, the arm is split, as in the metal "arms" are not a solid peice top to bottom. Looks like the middle was cut out of them.

Anyway, I'll probably go back to the 65t for the time being. I'll rewind the 10t armature next week sometime. I'll keep ya'll posted.

Your geared to high .....

split arms were design to lesson the feild trying to help increase RPM, try going down 2 teeth and see what the temps feel like then.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Your geared to high .....

split arms were design to lesson the feild trying to help increase RPM, try going down 2 teeth and see what the temps feel like then.

I was running the smallest pinion I had, which is 9. I probably should invest in a 7 or even 5 if I can find one, and also a bigger spur, though I think the 72 is about as big as Traxxas makes...

I had a feeling that that was the purpose behind the split arms, that and to remove some of the rotational mass. That 10t can was pulling pretty hard on the armature though, those magnets are still in good shape.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Rewound the 10t arm and made it a 55t single. Much easier than I thought, now that I know what to do. Biggest issue was de-soldering the wires where they looped over the tabs. Had to pull the soldering tip off my butane torch and use actual fire to melt the solder. After that is was all Sunday Morning.

I also had a hard time deciding how to balance it. I couldn't find an appropriate spot to do it. It either rolled over and kept on rolling, or it wouldn't roll at all.

Otherwise, it works pretty well, I imagine it would work much better with a trued com and new brushes (again, its pretty old...). Pretty notchy/jumpy/jittery/whatever with a very slight throttle input also.

It didn't catch on fire, so I'd say score one for me!

Question: what are the advantages/disadvantages of going with a double/triple/quad turn winding?

[Reflection]

I've probably wound a truck load of motors all together,and have yet to balance one. I'm not saying it is a waste,it can help. It's not as important as winding a 10t motor though. With the slower RPM's of a high turn motor,you can get away with no balancing and still have a motor that runs good. The balanced motor will more than likely last a bit longer though.

If/when you can get a good ESC,for a super I'd HIGHLY recommend either a Mamba Max or a Sidewinder Personally,I like the Max as they are a bit more robust. They'll handle heavier rigs allot better IMO. There's a ton of adjustments in the castle link to fine tune your set up. There's other options,a Mamba Max is hard to beat though.

Holmes Hobbies has some great options on motors. For your truck,depending on the weight,I'd recommend a 45t or 55t TorqueMaster Pro Handwound 540 on 9 or more cells,ultimately a 3 or 4 cell lipo though.

Going up in voltage on your battery pack,the factory BEC in any ESC will dwindle to nothing. I'd strongly recommend a Castle BEC. This will give your servos a much needed boost in power.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by raptorman57

I've probably wound a truck load of motors all together,and have yet to balance one. I'm not saying it is a waste,it can help. It's not as important as winding a 10t motor though. With the slower RPM's of a high turn motor,you can get away with no balancing and still have a motor that runs good. The balanced motor will more than likely last a bit longer though.

If/when you can get a good ESC,for a super I'd HIGHLY recommend either a Mamba Max or a Sidewinder Personally,I like the Max as they are a bit more robust. They'll handle heavier rigs allot better IMO. There's a ton of adjustments in the castle link to fine tune your set up. There's other options,a Mamba Max is hard to beat though.

Holmes Hobbies has some great options on motors. For your truck,depending on the weight,I'd recommend a 45t or 55t TorqueMaster Pro Handwound 540 on 9 or more cells,ultimately a 3 or 4 cell lipo though.

Going up in voltage on your battery pack,the factory BEC in any ESC will dwindle to nothing. I'd strongly recommend a Castle BEC. This will give your servos a much needed boost in power.

I get a slight vibration when it winds up, but I can't say I'm too worried about it.

I'd like to go with either of those ESC's, but budget is a big issue. Cheap is on the top of the priority list right now. My rc's are for my own enjoyment anyway, especially since I have yet to find anyone in my area that runs them. The closest fellow crawlers are at least 2 hours away. :-(

Should I need a motor, I'll definatly be shopping at HH. I've never heard a single bad note and he and his associates are always full of information and quick to disperse it. He deserves the buisiness.

I'd love to run LIPO, but again, budget budget budget. Untill all of my stick packs and chargers die, I won't be upgrading. However, I may still invest in a 7 cell just to see what all the hubub is about. Earlier this week I did go as far as to ditch all of my Tamiya plugs for the new Traxxas units (I wanted Deans, but they were out...). It made a huge difference in my run times, power output, and wheel speed. I'll never run a Tamiya plug again!

edit: just peruzed the HH site and found that the lipo's are quite a bit cheaper than I expected, though its been a while since I investigated. May have to rethink my power situation...I wonder how much $ I'll be getting on my tax returns...

[Robbob]

agree with Raptorman, balancing does help with performance and longevity but for crawling you can get away with a little vibration. your never running the thing full wood trying to beat the guy in front of ya.

thats ofcourse unless the thing rattles your work bench loose

[JohnRobHolmes]

A balanced rotor will run quite a bit faster too, but as long as you aren't volting it really high it isn't a big deal for now.

double, triple, and quad winds are useful for very fast motors. A quad wind doesn't allow such a fast inrush of current, so the power delivery feels smoother and more controllable. For crawling a single wind is certainly the easiest.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Robbob

thats ofcourse unless the thing rattles your work bench loose

lol...not yet. Gimme a chance to build a couple more and we'll see what happens...

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

A quad wind doesn't allow such a fast inrush of current, so the power delivery feels smoother and more controllable. For crawling a single wind is certainly the easiest.

Hmmm, as twitchy as this one feels I may rewind it again, this time as a double, just to see what happens.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Hmmm, as twitchy as this one feels I may rewind it again, this time as a double, just to see what happens.

youll have to use smaller diameter/gauge wire if you want to do a 55Double

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

edit: just peruzed the HH site and found that the lipo's are quite a bit cheaper than I expected, though its been a while since I investigated. May have to rethink my power situation...I wonder how much $ I'll be getting on my tax returns...

It took me a while to finally make the lipo swap. I won't run anything else now. You can't beat the power to weight/size of lipo's.....period. With a GOOD charger and GOOD packs,you'll get good run times and long life out of your cells. I'd HIGHLY recommend the Hyperion chargers. One of the best IMO. I like the AC/DC version simply cause I can charge anywhere I go. Right now,I'm running 25c 2200mah 3 cell Poly RC lipos I got from John and I couldn't be happier. One of the best set ups I've run to date.

Originally Posted by Robbob

your never running the thing full wood trying to beat the guy in front of ya.

says who?????