RCCrawler Forums

rustyrooster · 08-26-2010, 07:28 AM

Am I comparing apples to oranges?

My buddy has a rooster crawler and I don’t think he has any complains with it. I assumed when I do my build I would use a rooster crawler or equivalent.
As I search the sight, it seems like I see a lot of reference to the mamba max. The mamba sounds pretty nice because of the ability to program it.

What is the difference between brushed and brushless ESCs?
Do you have to use a brushless motor with a brushless ESC?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of brushless?

I know back when I was a kid, all my motors had brushes but I am quickly finding out how the increase in technology over the years has changed/improved the hobby.

ClassicGMJunkie · 08-26-2010, 08:06 AM

Im just getting back into RC from a long hiatus. brushless is killer for zero maintenance and high speed with big cell lipos. Crawlers dont really need all the wheelspeed. I run a rooster crawler with cheapo Blue 2s 1800 lipos ($8.99

) and get over an hour easy run time, typically 1.4-1.6 hrs time. I had the Novak 55 turn and with stock gearing, was sss lll oooo www.. i geared it up from a 14 tooth to 20, and it was ok. changed to a 45 turn and same gearing,had the same good grunt of torque and low control, and had much better wheelspeed. just enough to rock you back N forth outta a bad situation, but not enough to start eating parts. the slipper clutch does its job.

get the rooster & 45t combo, and get used to it. you'll like it. now if someone hands you their traxxas slash electronics equipped scx10 , you'll want the wheelspeed... but chance of breaking things. its a give/take decision....

rustyrooster · 08-26-2010, 10:03 AM

After reading your post, it has sparked another couple questions that I assume will lead back to the ESC.
If I have this right, it sounds like a 55t motor has more low end compared to the 45t and the 45t has more on top????? In the crawling situations you are in, I am guessing you do not notice/need the lowend that you may have given up with the 45t…..

I love the low end and technical side of this hobby but I also see the need for wheel speed at times. When driving my buddies berg with 55t motors, I thought it was great because I could take forever to turn the tire one complete revolution if I wanted. On the other hand, there were times I wanted to “lunge” it over a gap, but it did not build enough acceleration to carry the front as far as I wanted.

I want to build a crawler setup that has an insane amount of lowend control and tops out at 30mph. haha I know that is a ridiculous statement, but my point is “what can I do to increase the range from low too high?”
Gearing adds to one but takes away from the other. It sounds like a motor will do that too……
I assume I would want a higher turn motor that could handle a battery and ESC that is really winding it out……I will also guess that is where brushless enters the game.

YJ_Driver · 08-26-2010, 10:45 AM

My suggestion is to go with a Mamba Max or the cheaper Sidewinder (both by Castle Creations). I started with a Rooster but ended up switching to a Sidewinder as it is more capable and programmable. For example you can run 2S or 3S LiPo, the latter is great for getting both low end torque and high speeds, you can tune the throttle curve and the drag brake amount, it can run brushed or brushless motors, and if you want to move it to another type of vehicle you can re-program the brake and reverse behavior.

The only drawback is the BEC is 1A vs. the Rooster 5A, so you may need a separate BEC (CC has a great one) depending on the number and type of servos you run, one steering servo is usually fine.

For reference I run a Holmes 7T Puller motor (you can't compare it to standard motors though) and a 3S 1250 mAh E-Flite battery which gives me more than 20 min. of run time. It doesn't go 30 mph, but it is fast enough to easily jump gaps.

oldhippie · 08-26-2010, 08:02 PM

The rooster is only rated for 2s lipo so is really useless in a serious comp crawler. Most serious comp guys are running at least 3s and somewhere in the 30t-45t range of motors. A handwound will do better than a machine wound motor. The sidewinder is really all ya need in a crawler. The small size, easy programability and big punch of the fxr makes it great crawler esc, especially for dual esc apps! The hh torquemaster is good to 6s with no motor limit and has a bigger bec, which make it great for single esc apps, plus it can be had waterproofed! imho the mambas are just overkill in a crawler and ya really need a sensored esc/motor (tekin rs/mamba pro) to run brushless in a crawler.

mrG · 08-27-2010, 10:14 AM

Mamba Max Pro all the way, it will run brushed or brushless, tons of adjustable settings and can handle up to 6s (which you'll never need for a crawler, but its nice to have the option). After the newer updates its smooth as butter.

rustyrooster · 08-27-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldhippie

The rooster is only rated for 2s lipo so is really useless in a serious comp crawler. Most serious comp guys are running at least 3s and somewhere in the 30t-45t range of motors. A handwound will do better than a machine wound motor. The sidewinder is really all ya need in a crawler. The small size, easy programability and big punch of the fxr makes it great crawler esc, especially for dual esc apps! The hh torquemaster is good to 6s with no motor limit and has a bigger bec, which make it great for single esc apps, plus it can be had waterproofed! imho the mambas are just overkill in a crawler and ya really need a sensored esc/motor (tekin rs/mamba pro) to run brushless in a crawler.

What is the punch of the fxr and what is a dual esc app compared to a single app?

08-26-2010, 07:28 AM	#1
rustyrooster Newbie Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: cass city Posts: 46	rooster crawler vs. mamba max Am I comparing apples to oranges? My buddy has a rooster crawler and I don’t think he has any complains with it. I assumed when I do my build I would use a rooster crawler or equivalent. As I search the sight, it seems like I see a lot of reference to the mamba max. The mamba sounds pretty nice because of the ability to program it. What is the difference between brushed and brushless ESCs? Do you have to use a brushless motor with a brushless ESC? What are the advantages/disadvantages of brushless? I know back when I was a kid, all my motors had brushes but I am quickly finding out how the increase in technology over the years has changed/improved the hobby.

08-26-2010, 08:06 AM	#2
ClassicGMJunkie Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Wheeling Posts: 454	Im just getting back into RC from a long hiatus. brushless is killer for zero maintenance and high speed with big cell lipos. Crawlers dont really need all the wheelspeed. I run a rooster crawler with cheapo Blue 2s 1800 lipos ($8.99) and get over an hour easy run time, typically 1.4-1.6 hrs time. I had the Novak 55 turn and with stock gearing, was sss lll oooo www.. i geared it up from a 14 tooth to 20, and it was ok. changed to a 45 turn and same gearing,had the same good grunt of torque and low control, and had much better wheelspeed. just enough to rock you back N forth outta a bad situation, but not enough to start eating parts. the slipper clutch does its job. get the rooster & 45t combo, and get used to it. you'll like it. now if someone hands you their traxxas slash electronics equipped scx10 , you'll want the wheelspeed... but chance of breaking things. its a give/take decision....

08-26-2010, 10:03 AM	#3
rustyrooster Newbie Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: cass city Posts: 46	After reading your post, it has sparked another couple questions that I assume will lead back to the ESC. If I have this right, it sounds like a 55t motor has more low end compared to the 45t and the 45t has more on top????? In the crawling situations you are in, I am guessing you do not notice/need the lowend that you may have given up with the 45t….. I love the low end and technical side of this hobby but I also see the need for wheel speed at times. When driving my buddies berg with 55t motors, I thought it was great because I could take forever to turn the tire one complete revolution if I wanted. On the other hand, there were times I wanted to “lunge” it over a gap, but it did not build enough acceleration to carry the front as far as I wanted. I want to build a crawler setup that has an insane amount of lowend control and tops out at 30mph. haha I know that is a ridiculous statement, but my point is “what can I do to increase the range from low too high?” Gearing adds to one but takes away from the other. It sounds like a motor will do that too…… I assume I would want a higher turn motor that could handle a battery and ESC that is really winding it out……I will also guess that is where brushless enters the game.

08-26-2010, 10:45 AM	#4
YJ_Driver Quarry Creeper Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada Posts: 251	My suggestion is to go with a Mamba Max or the cheaper Sidewinder (both by Castle Creations). I started with a Rooster but ended up switching to a Sidewinder as it is more capable and programmable. For example you can run 2S or 3S LiPo, the latter is great for getting both low end torque and high speeds, you can tune the throttle curve and the drag brake amount, it can run brushed or brushless motors, and if you want to move it to another type of vehicle you can re-program the brake and reverse behavior. The only drawback is the BEC is 1A vs. the Rooster 5A, so you may need a separate BEC (CC has a great one) depending on the number and type of servos you run, one steering servo is usually fine. For reference I run a Holmes 7T Puller motor (you can't compare it to standard motors though) and a 3S 1250 mAh E-Flite battery which gives me more than 20 min. of run time. It doesn't go 30 mph, but it is fast enough to easily jump gaps.

08-26-2010, 08:02 PM	#5
oldhippie I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: 20 miles southeeast of downtown Sacramento Posts: 2,373	The rooster is only rated for 2s lipo so is really useless in a serious comp crawler. Most serious comp guys are running at least 3s and somewhere in the 30t-45t range of motors. A handwound will do better than a machine wound motor. The sidewinder is really all ya need in a crawler. The small size, easy programability and big punch of the fxr makes it great crawler esc, especially for dual esc apps! The hh torquemaster is good to 6s with no motor limit and has a bigger bec, which make it great for single esc apps, plus it can be had waterproofed! imho the mambas are just overkill in a crawler and ya really need a sensored esc/motor (tekin rs/mamba pro) to run brushless in a crawler.

08-27-2010, 10:14 AM	#6
mrG RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: In the thinking chair Posts: 991	Mamba Max Pro all the way, it will run brushed or brushless, tons of adjustable settings and can handle up to 6s (which you'll never need for a crawler, but its nice to have the option). After the newer updates its smooth as butter.

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