Mamba Max not turning Motor

[sacornett]

Just got a Mamba Max Pro for my Wraith hooked it up with a CC BEC and did the start up programing. I have a Novak 45T and it will not turn it just shutters. It did try one time to run but just for a second. No binding hooked battery straight to motor and it worked.

Thanks for any help

[Charlie-III]

"Start-up programming", you mean a RX/ESC calibration??

That would be step-1. If you did the calibration, was the TX throttle EPA's set to 100%, trim & sub-trim to "0"?

Direct connect to a known good battery pack is a GREAT way to test the motor. Congrats as it rules out some things.

Is the radio (TX & RX) known to be good?

[sf2000xj]

I bet it is setup for brushless, you just need to program it for brushed motors easiest is with castle link but can be done with your transmitter.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Twisted Nuts]

Originally Posted by sf2000xj

I bet it is setup for brushless, you just need to program it for brushed motors easiest is with castle link but can be done with your transmitter.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

X2 sounds like its still setup for smartsense brushless. program it to brushed and youll be good to go.

[PSYCHO-JLO]

Your LHS should have a Castle Link they can whore out to you...

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by sf2000xj

I bet it is setup for brushless, you just need to program it for brushed motors...

x3! The MMP is set for brushless by default.
If you try to run a regular motor on that setting it can destroy the ESC!
For some unknown reason Castle doesn't provide a warning about this issue!

I got the warning in time and made double sure my ESC was set for brushed motors before hooking it up to the motor.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Olle P

For some unknown reason Castle doesn't provide a warning about this issue!

All Castle escs are shipped in brushless mode. I'm pretty sure it says so in the instruction manual that nobody seems to want to read...


edit: just went out and looked at the little quick start up guide...it's mentioned TWICE. Once that the default setting is brushless, and once that if you are going to use a brushed motor that you need to refer to the programming guide to set it up properly.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

... just went out and looked at the little quick start up guide...it's mentioned TWICE. Once that the default setting is brushless, and once that if you are going to use a brushed motor that you need to refer to the programming guide to set it up properly.

Let's see... Driver's Ed Guide, the manual that comes with the MMP:

Page 2, general warnings: No mentioning that the ESC might brew if you try to run a brushed motor in brushless mode.

Page 3, quick start: Assumes using a brushless motor. Any half-whit with a brushed motor will attach it correctly (as described on page 10) and do the calibration by the book before adjusting the programming to brushed mode. After all it clearly tells you to do the calibration first, and without a Castle Link adapter it's the way to do it!

Page 6-8, General description: "Most users may simply plug the controller into their motor... and run it immediately."
Not a single word about changing the programming for proper motor type.

Pages 10-11, Brushed motor wiring: Not a word about checking/changing the programming, or that failing to do so before attaching the motor can cause problems. Only that the wires might be swapped to get the motor running in the right direction after calibration.

Pages 13-16, ESC calibration: Lots of warnings about battery polarity, but at the end it says you can use the ESC immediately after calibration. The text writer assume the user has a BL motor and makes no mentioning of any differences if you don't...

Page 35, manual programming, motor type:
1. Brushless, says it's the default setting but no caution what will happen is you use it with a brushed motor.
2. and 3. Brushed motor settings, likewise no mentioning of what can happen if you try to run a BL in this mode. This is the only place in the entire manual where it actually says it's even possible to change the motor setting!
Given that editing the program is described (on page 6) as something for "advanced users", one can easily assume that "basic" users will skip the entire chapter about manual programming.

Pages 37-40, troubleshooting: No mentioning of the possibility to forget changing the motor type setting.
________________

Thus I stand by my previous claim:
No mentioning that the MMP is likely to take permanent damage if you try to run a brushed motor with the default settings!
And only in the chapter you're not expected to read until after doing some bit of driving are you told to change the motor type...
________________

Now for the Quick Start Guide that I think you're referring to:
I agree that it does say that sensorless brushless mode is the default setting...
... but the entire guide is about sensored vs sensorless BL motors.
No mentioning that the default setting is not good for brushed motors!
No mentioning of brushed motors at all!
It just says that the default setting isn't the best for sensored BL motors...

[Duuuuuuuude]

How about page 1 where it says "Instruction Manual for all Castle Creations Car and Truck Brushless Power Systems"?

That would be a clue that you might have to do something before running a brushed motor...

Page 2 mentions that it is a very powerful brushless motor system.

Yet another clue...

Page 3 mentions connecting the 3 wires to the motor...yet brushed motors only use 2...hmmm

I'm starting to see a pattern here...

Page 5 shows the table of contents and lists what page you can find the instructions to change the motor type. Gee, I wonder if they mean changing it to brushed...

If you haven't figured out by this point that you maybe just might have to program it to run brushed...you're probably a big fan of lead paint sandwiches.

Page 6 recommends you read the entire manual, but who has time for that?

You can stand by whatever you want, but don't blame Castle for your failure to read instructions, which they do recommend you do.

Also, "most' people does not mean "all" people.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Olle P

Thus I stand by my previous claim:
No mentioning that the MMP is likely to take permanent damage if you try to run a brushed motor with the default settings!

Actually, pg 34 states that esc damage will occur if the motor settings do not match the motor used.

So I guess that is a big nanny nanny boo boo to you, sir.

[Charlie-III]

OK, I guess we all agree that CC SHOULD revise their manual.

Then again, if a user only reads part of the manual, they WILL miss relevant parts.

Yes, yes, yes, I know, "Real men don't read instructions".

But, you WILL get hung if you don't read them even if the relevant bits are many pages beyond where you stopped reading.

PS, I have similar discussions with my own office regarding manuals......

[Duuuuuuuude]

I read instruction manuals all the time, even on things I am familiar with. Revisions are made, design changes are made, features are added.

Better to not be cool and read than be cool and be out a few hundred (or thousand) dollars.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

How about page 1 where it says "Instruction Manual for all Castle Creations Car and Truck Brushless Power Systems"?
That would be a clue that you might have to do something before running a brushed motor...

Not per se...

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Page 3 mentions connecting the 3 wires to the motor...yet brushed motors only use 2...hmmm

High power brushed motors are supposed to be connected by all three motor leads...

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Page 5 shows the table of contents and lists what page you can find the instructions to change the motor type.

Doesn't say CHANGE, just the programming for Motor type.
I'll get back to this below...

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Page 6 recommends you read the entire manual, ...

... only if you want to get the most from the ESC. (Not specifically recommended just to get going.)

At the top of page 6 it's already been stated that the default settings should be fine to get you running.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Also, "most' people does not mean "all" people.

No, some feel they really "need" to get the most out of their ESC. Those are the ones that are recommended to read the entire manual and change the programming.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Actually, pg 34 states that esc damage will occur if the motor settings do not match the motor used.

Once you're actually reading about programming it's no longer a problem...

My main issue is that if you follow the written instructions in an attempt to quickly get the motor running you will fail.
There's no indication that you need to alter the programming (and thus read that chapter of the manual)!
To me that's a clear indication that the motor type by default is sensed automatically (just like the default battery settings sense (LiPo) battery cell count). Automatic motor type selection is no technical difficulty to implement:
- During start-up of the ESC first measure the resistance in motor lead pairs A-B and B-C.
- If those pairs have no connection there's either no motor attached or a (reversing) brushed motor.
- If those pairs are connected with some resistance it's a brushless motor, with somewhat high wind count.
- If those pairs are practically shorted, measure the voltage on the motor leads. If it's 0V it's a brushless motor, if it's the battery voltage it's a (high power) brushed motor.

Now, since there is no default automatic motor type sensing the instructions how to attach a brushed motor should clearly state that a programming change is mandatory!

[Duuuuuuuude]

Not per say? Seriously? If you bought a part that will fit on a Ford but the instructions keep saying "Chevrolet", you wouldn't read on until you found the part that says "for Ford users"?

Still, if you can't deduce after reading just a page or two that you might have to do something special to run a brushed motor when all that they are talking about is brushless, you're pretty dense.

Castle makes brushless motors and brushless escs. Their products by nature are geared toward brushless users. Part of "getting the most" out of it is making it work with a brushed motor.

Keep arguing your point. You're getting really creative and I must admit, it is entertaining.

Though I will agree that the warning way in the back should be right up front.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Not per say? Seriously? If you bought a part that will fit on a Ford but the instructions keep saying "Chevrolet", you wouldn't read on until you found the part that says "for Ford users"?

I did point out that I expect the user to follow the instructions on how to install a brushed motor, didn't I?
That's all the deviation implied by the manual's general use of the term "brushless".

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Still, if you can't deduce after reading just a page or two that you might have to do something special to run a brushed motor when all that they are talking about is brushless, you're pretty dense.

Look at the battery issue too. We that do know something know that if you're running LiPo batteries it's pretty much mandatory to have proper LiPo cut-off in place. That normally takes some programming to accomplish if you're not running the one default voltage. The MMP is designed for 2-6 S, yet the "get running" guides make no mention about having to verify the cut-off and I don't complain about that fact. Why? Because by default it's automatic! The setting will be fine no matter if you use 2S or 6S. If you're not using LiPo but NiMH the motor will still run, but the ESC will reduce the output power prematurely until you change the programming. That doesn't destroy anything!

So, why should the user think that the motor type isn't by default set automatically into something that's if not optimal so at least functional and safe? (If you attach a sensored brushless motor it will run, but not utilize the sensor.)

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Castle makes brushless motors and brushless escs. Their products by nature are geared toward brushless users. ...

Yeah, they want to sell BL, I've understood...

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Part of "getting the most" out of it is making it work with a brushed motor.

That's something many applicable users will realise after the smoke is let out of the ESC, since the manual doesn't say so.
I'd say that to most users there's a definite difference between getting the most and getting something (other than smoke).

[blakeski]

Castle link is your friend.. with the click of a mouse all is well...