Hobbywing FOC. Will I regret it?

[Speedy-Triple]

I have installed one of those 1200 SE in a straight axle stock capra transmission with a 11t pinion and it is incredibly smooth ... the slow start up is insane even on the tall transmission while it is still providing enough wheel speed when required. I would imagine that this 1200 will be way to slow on a adequately geared transmission and or portals I have yet to test the 1800 or the pro which I have just not gotten to those builds ...in comparison I have a holmes sherpa running VP-F10s portals with a castle micro v2 with a 1450 revolver classic and the fusion is just as smooth and slow as the 1200 SE but the SE has so much more wheel speed and top end compared to the sherpa

[Shinook]

I've been really tempted to try a brushed setup again, I haven't run a brushed motor in ages. I'll probably leave the Fusion Pro in my 10 Pro, but I have two other builds pending (a C1 and another C2), I'm considering trying a brushed motor in one of those again just to see how it compares to the latest brushless innovations and improvements

[cooper_xl]

I think you'll not regret having FOC...

This is for everyone else : we are talking about the Fusion SE. I've got the 1800kv. Anyone knows what's the right programming card for it?

[Speedy-Triple]

Originally Posted by cooper_xl

I think you'll not regret having FOC...

This is for everyone else : we are talking about the Fusion SE. I've got the 1800kv. Anyone knows what's the right programming card for it?

i was able to program via hw 1080's card without issues ... there will be a new sticker that will show you the parameters of the adjustment on your motor/esc.

[twade984]

Originally Posted by cooper_xl

I think you'll not regret having FOC...

This is for everyone else : we are talking about the Fusion SE. I've got the 1800kv. Anyone knows what's the right programming card for it?

I used a 1080 card, and followed the chart included in the paper instructions for each parameter




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cooper_xl]

Originally Posted by twade984

I used a 1080 card, and followed the chart included in the paper instructions for each parameter




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting... I have one of those. Thank you!

[Col_Sanders]

I am using 2300kv Fusion Pros on my Vanquish Phoenix and on my new SCX10 Pro. It gives cleaner wiring and having that weight down low is helpful. I'm using mine in "normal mode" instead of FOC.

I think I get better low end out of a Mamba X and a good brushless motor (Tekin or a Slate). Thats probably because I can fine tune the throttle curve on their software and I'm more familiar with it. With that said, I feel like Castle is kinda neglecting the crawler market by not making true crawler specific ESCs. I love the Mamba X but they're huge and heavy. The Micro X solves that but I had bad luck with Micros on my comp rigs. Burned one up and the other just got too hot for comfort, even though the motor would be cool to the touch. I've used several 1080s and now 3 Fusions and have yet to have an issue.

[ussprinceton2004]

just 1 of the many HobbyWing set-ups

[Shinook]

So I yanked the Hobbywing Fusion Pro out of my SCX10 Pro and put a brushed setup in to try out, it's a BR-XL w/ Crawlmaster Magnum Stubby 16t. I'll try to get it at an actual course this weekend to see how it does, but testing on some stuff at my house, it's kindof interesting.

The FOC basically seems to make the motor spin at a consistent RPM within the FOC range (0-25% with my tx), the transition out of FOC is a little abrupt feeling IMO compared to the Crawlmaster Mini, which I think has a wider useful range. When getting up onto obstacles and such, the FOC will tend to spin the wheels instead of the motor stalling out. I guess this could be a good thing or a bad thing, it's kindof nice to have them moving and can give you some control coming up over ledges and such. The downside is that it doesn't give you much traction feedback, it just breaks traction and there isn't much you can do to control that, because it's going to constantly scale up the power to keep from stalling or cogging. Once you break up over something, the car doesn't lurch and you can just kinda keep the same throttle input in without worrying about it taking off. I feel like the throttle curve is more gracious also and less touchy, but that's feasible because of FOC. The Fusion Pro also lets you run at a pretty low, slow speed, almost impractically slow.

The brushed setup I tested, on the other hand, stalls when it gets stuck and requires the user to add more power. It gives you some feedback when it's having trouble, so you can add more power and it will reasonably smoothly continue, but if you break over a ledge or something with it, it's gonna lurch forward, so you have to really be careful with your throttle input. The default curve on the BR-XL is also pretty touchy, but I think that is required given the lack of FOC or something similar. If you go from stuck to unstuck, it's gonna jump forward, so it gives you some feedback on what it is doing, but you really have to watch it, because it will punish you with speeding up too much if you aren't careful. The power from this motor is considerably stronger than the Fusion Pro though, in my observation, it almost feels like you could break the drivetrain with it. It gives more feedback but requires you to manage the power delivery to push over things. I can also run 4S, which is nice, and the top end power is a lot higher even at 3S, blipping the throttle makes it jump up onto things a lot better too. You have low end control here, but it's not going to creep as slowly and smoothly as the Fusion will. It starts moving at around 6-7% throttle for me, but it's not super smooth movement until 7-8%.

It almost seems like the brushed setup gave you more traction, where FOC will just keep pushing the motor until it either climbs or the wheels spin, the brushed setup will stall and let you slowly add power to bring it over the obstacle. The tradeoff is that if you just hold the same power setting, it's going to lurch and run away from you when it gets unstuck or the situation changes, so you have to be really aware of what it is doing. I think the question is whether the end user wants to control the throttle more or let the ESC manage it and accept the tires will spin if it gets hung up.

I'll try to run the same comp course I did last weekend to see how it compares. I think the question for me will be whether the potential for improved traction and feedback outweighs the downside of it being more error prone to operate.

EDIT: Oh and the overdrive seems to have an effect on it also, at 0% it operates a lot smoother than at 40%, at least on flat ground. Again that's at 6-7% throttle, when you start climbing over stuff, it doesn't seem to effect how smooth it is much.

[Druxus]

I got the axe system when it first came out and was impressed with the low speed control it had for a brushless setup. It does have a slight delay if you're crawling up something and starts to to tip over and need reverse right now.

I didn't get into the fusions until recently. One of my friends let me drive one of his and instantly noticed the difference between the fusion and the axe. The fusion feels more refined as far as control goes, but I do feel it lacks in the punch zone but it is no slouch.

The Holmes Crawlmaster imo beats both the axe and the fusion in control and being able to run a outrunner motor quietly is Fantastic. You will not run out of power with one of those motors.

Castle creations has definitely fallen behind for the crawler end of things. Took a rig out the other day with a mamba x and a Holmes brushless motor and while it still does good coming from a fusion or a Crawlmaster set up you can really feel it. Hopefully they are working on something to keep up and that's lighter then a mamba x. Don't know if I would trust a copperhead or if they fixed the issue but they had problems.