Berg Setup for Man Made (rip-rap) Course

[pbm45]

I am running a Berg (just under 6lbs) on a local man made course which consists of rip-rap rock from a quarry. It is fairly rough on equipment.

I am just wondering if anyone has any experiences to share on Shocks, Tires and Foams?

Thanks

[murderface]

big bores half droop soft foams in sedonas works great on river rock

[ittybitty]

I don't know about for sure about the rocks you're running on, but the rip rap courses tend to get more dust and dirt on them...or just loose grit. If that's the case then a softer tire and foam setup would help out. The only problem with that is that I like to run a slightly stiffer foam for rip rap courses because when a tire drops in a hole I don't want it to wad up so bad. Those holes can be really hard on rigs so if the tires don't wad up but allow you to wiggle them free and climb out that should help keep things together. You just have to balance this with the amount of traction you need to stick to the rocks.

As far as suspension goes I find that a setup which uses limiting to its advantage works best for me. It helps to be able to carry a tire over a gap rather than constantly dropping into them.

That's all I can think of right now.

[jcboof]

Originally Posted by ittybitty

I don't know about for sure about the rocks you're running on, but the rip rap courses tend to get more dust and dirt on them...or just loose grit. If that's the case then a softer tire and foam setup would help out. The only problem with that is that I like to run a slightly stiffer foam for rip rap courses because when a tire drops in a hole I don't want it to wad up so bad. Those holes can be really hard on rigs so if the tires don't wad up but allow you to wiggle them free and climb out that should help keep things together. You just have to balance this with the amount of traction you need to stick to the rocks.

As far as suspension goes I find that a setup which uses limiting to its advantage works best for me. It helps to be able to carry a tire over a gap rather than constantly dropping into them.

That's all I can think of right now.

I'd have to agree with this. Slightly limited articulation is very important. ALL of the courses that we run on here in Indiana and Michigan are man made courses. I have not had the chance to crawl on any natural formations as there are none here! LOL!!

Holes are a big problem with rip-rap and manmade courses. A stiffer foam setup is not that critical, but using some type of Stiffener ring or center support ring like what is found on the Mayhem Engineering UCW wheels is really nice for that kind of stuff. The added wheel diameter give you the ability to stay out of as many holes, and allows you to still run a soft foam. Sedonas and Rovers really shine on these types of rock. Boss Claws and pin type tires don't work too terribly well on this stuff from what i've encountered.

Suspension setup for rip-rap/manmade courses is a bit different than others. A soft yet fast suspension is what I like to run. Limiting the articulation is important for holes, but also for the large changes and tight technical sections. A truck with too much articulation will constantly twist up on this type of rock.

Breakover is a pretty big concern of mine in rip rap. The sharp ledges and tall rocks can stop you dead in your tracks if you don't have enough breakover.
Breakover to me is not just the ability to have a high ground clearance, but to have enough clearance and enough forward weight bias to let momentum do its job. Wheelspeed is VERY helpful for this type of crawling. Yes, there are times when you need slow and controlled driving, but that quick blip of the throttle is what is needed to get you over an obstacle sometimes. A good set of 35T handwounds like the Holmes Torquemasters will give you great low end power and awesome burst and speed!
Having a good battery that will supply the motors juice is necessary too.

Truck weight is something that some people may or may not agree with me on. If you courses are set up and have little elevation changes, A heavier truck will always do better on the courses. They stay more planted and generally behave more predictably. But if there is a considerable amount of elevation changes, a lighter truck tends to work better.
When I say heavy, I mean 6.5-6.75 lbs. Light would be from 6-6.5.

An ultralight truck (less than 6lbs) for the type of rocks that we crawl on typically don't work as well. They get really twitchy and unpredictable. Some people may swear by it, but its just my opinion that they don't tend to work as predictably and consistently for me.
Ultralights really shine on smooth and large natural rocks, where sidehilling and verticals are king.

Sidehilling is one of those things that doesn't happen to often on riprap courses. Just because the rocks are not normally big enough to give you a long smooth surface to traverse. Now if there is poured concrete verticals and sidehills, a lighter truck would work nice on those.

This just about sums up my experiences with rip-rap/manmade courses. Its basically all i've ever crawled on and I learn to set up trucks based on these conditions.

If I were you, as I stated before, unless you have a bunch of verticals and stuff, I'd add a little weight to your truck and see how it does. I'd just add the weight in the front though. And also try to dial in a little more front traction by lowering your front links on the chassis. This will give you a bit more forward bite and help pull you around a bit.
I add about 7-8oz of weight to each of my front wheels to get the desired balance that I've become accustomed to.
My truck weighs in at exactly 6lbs and it's worked very well for me. I only lightened it up to that for the new verticals and sidehills that the place I comp as has added.


These are just my opinions, no need to take them as the gospel. But with what i've found in my area and on the type of rocks I climb on it seems to work ok.

Hope this helps ya!

[WarTrader]

One of my clubs favorite comp spots is craggy rock set in concrete. Evil Rip Rap. There are two things I would reccommend. Dial up a good bit of ground clearance, and limit articulation. You will also want to get as much steering as possible.

I usually like to try and keep my GC as low as possible. But on rip rap there tends to me soo much breakover that I have found it really helps. Not to mention as mentioned by JCboof your not goin to encounter a lot of sidehilling where a higher CG will be a big issue. I have found that success is measured mostly by not falling in the big holes. That is where steering and limited articulation come into play. I would also try to dial in some positive caster to help with steering out of holes and turning "uphill".

Where I crawl just about any tire works the rock is soo rough. I would have to say though I've become fond of Sedona's. I like to run mine with a Nova's foam!

[Harvo]

I agree with Sedonas on Rip Rap. They are bigger and won't get sucked into holes as bad.

A good servo is a must. The holes will make it tough to turn anyway...

Everything else the guys above said is good info.

[pbm45]

Thanks to everone on the input. I will try some of it out next week.

Paul