obstacle grading system????

[Santa Cruz Jeff]

This may sound stupid but since this hoddy/sport is fairly new I was wondering if anyone has thought to grade the difficulty of obstacles like the grades given to lines in Rock climbing?????? 5/11 A,B,C 5/12 A,B,C ETC... Or maybe like they do in boulderings V rating system???? I think that would be cool to compare different lines and to grade lines at established crawl spots .

[Duuuuuuuude]

Not a bad idea, but I think that'd leave a lot to speculation, or a whole new slew of rules and regs that someone would have to come up with to grade things.

[Grandmasboy]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Not a bad idea, but I think that'd leave a lot to speculation, or a whole new slew of rules and regs that someone would have to come up with to grade things.

I don't think that would necessarily be the case. A rating system would be kinda neat, but instead of rock climbing or bouldering ratings, do like they did in Tellico. ie Easy, Moderate, Most Difficult.

[Santa Cruz Jeff]

Well in climbing and bouldering there is alot of grey area one guy says 5/13a another calls it 5/12 d but its based on pitch # and size of holds types of rock and moves to solve the problem.I'm not talking about a new rule book,but a general measurement of obslacles so as to compare or describe the difficulty to others a bit more in depth than easy,medium and hard but not 1000 pages of blather either.

[Simon.O.]

I think this could be a good discussion.
Some courses could have a load of "x" gradient climbs that are say 40-60 deg
Some "m" grade off camber runs that are 20-45deg
Some realy narrow bridges that are "q" grade, say 13" wide

This would not be too hard to setup as a grading system as long as there are not too many splits.
Gradient 10 deg splits
Off-Camber 10 deg splits
Bridge width 3-4"increments.

I am sure some folk could sort out say 6 parameters for a course and then allocate lettered or numbered grades to each parameter and then you end up with effectivly a set of pace notes similar to the 1:1 rally guys.

If I am off base here then sing out and I'll zip it.

[Duuuuuuuude]

But what about the surface of the incline? A 50* climb up one rock is not the same as a 50* climb up another. Would you have to have an additional rating system for rocks too?

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by Grandmasboy

I don't think that would necessarily be the case. A rating system would be kinda neat, but instead of rock climbing or bouldering ratings, do like they did in Tellico. ie Easy, Moderate, Most Difficult.

Although it's a good idea,I'm kindly with Duuuuuuuuude. It would leave allot to speculation. My idea of a "moderate trail" would be allot different than yours.

Maybe I'm thinking about something else. Didn't Ben use the "Easy, Moderate, Most Difficult" trail markings for all the courses at last years Scale Nationals? Seems like a pretty cool thing to do with the scale trucks.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Reflection

Although it's a good idea,I'm kindly with Duuuuuuuuude. It would leave allot to speculation. My idea of a "moderate trail" would be allot different than yours.

Maybe I'm thinking about something else. Didn't Ben use the "Easy, Moderate, Most Difficult" trail markings for all the courses at last years Scale Nationals? Seems like a pretty cool thing to do with the scale trucks.

Easy, Moderate, and Most Difficult would be about as complex as it needs to be IMO.

Easy would be something most people can blast through.

Moderate would take a bit of skill to navigate.

Most Difficult would take some butt puckering, cussing, and sweating to clear.

[Santa Cruz Jeff]

I know that any grading system would leave lots of room for speculation,as in climbing also in ski areas a doudle black in Squaw might only be a single or even blue at Crested Butte but it would be cool if we could get something going even in a basic format for comparison or lines and spots.maybe grade the type of terrain,rock type,pitch ,and moves like if it takes mandatory dig,or 4ws mandatory,etc.Like the stuff we crawl in Santa Cruz is pretty much all huge boulder piles with sketchy swear inducing almost uncrawlable stuff vs some stuff I see that is Killer smooth rock that has its own set of problems to work out to make a line.There is just so much different rock types that all pose a new set of challenges.

[rob_b]

My personal grading system is as follows:

Easy
Difficult
Stupid Hard (only hard because its stupid)

And its totally based on me driving my crawler. So I would say its pretty subjective.

[Harley]

Sounds cool but just not practical. In the end it would be a novelty that wouldn't have any merit to it at all.

[lwb Sami]

I think the system out here is

Wow, that looks fun
Damn, that looks sick
WTF, I'm gonna break my shit

[Kraqa]

easy
took some skill
took alot of skill and some tries
impossible.

whats the point of rating the odstickle?

it not liek a 1:1 where once your in the trail you can't get out. If you dont' liek ti walk over grab your RC and go play somehere else.

[dickwart]

Its a good concept but way to many variables... Like stated before you'll end up with numbers, letters, greek symbols to grade stuff and it'll get a little to hard to regulate and keep a constant system...

[slobin3d]

On 1:1 crawling, skiing, rock climbing the obstacle never changes. so the rating could be make with some certainty. When we crawl as a Club, we never make the same gate or line twice, and we don't pre-run the course, half the time the stuff we think is going to be hard is pretty simple, and the easy stuff is a killer. so either you never change your courses or you guess on how tough a line is...... and whats hard for you might be gravy to someone else cause they set their truck up better, or they are just a better driver

[Grandmasboy]

Like Hurley said, it would be a cool idea just for the novelty of it. It would also be better applied to the scalers IMO.

[Terranaut]

In one sense, the obstacle grading system already exists and you've been using it from the beginning. It's otherwise know as a 'Score Sheet'!

If you were to collate and tabulate information from scoresheets it should be possible to establish a comparitive score or grade for every obstacle. Just total up the scores for all drivers for each individual obstacle and divide by the number of drivers, and maybe factor in the time taken by each driver to clear the gate. It's only a comparison, after the event, but stil could be usefull and certainly better than guesswork and anecdotes.

With a little effort, forethought and time this could be usefull when publishing comp results, writing articles for magazines or newsletters etc. and could enable different drivers to compare themselves against other drivers and courses, even those you've never seen, based on performance against the grading system.

But how to grade a new, untried obstacle? I dunno, but I think it can't really be done in a usefull, reasonably accurate way.

Cheers.

[Duuuuuuuude]

It'd still be too complex. There are too many variables.

Say you've got a large chunk of rock, somewhat flat faced that is sitting at a 50* angle. We'll say 3' top to bottom. How would you rate it?

Here's everything that you'd have to take into consideration...

1. Approach. Is it loose, is it packed, is there a tight off-camber turn to get onto the face? Do you have to climb another rock to get to it? Is there water at the bottom?

2. Rock Face. How wide or narrow is it? Rough or smooth? Clean and dry or loose, dusty, or wet? Grippy or slick? Bumpy or flat? Does it start out at one angle and increase/decrease throughout the climb/descent?

3. Exit. How bad is the breakover at the top? Is it pointy or smoothed over? Does it drop off on the backside or can you transition to another rock or level ground?

[Grandmasboy]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

It'd still be too complex. There are too many variables.

Say you've got a large chunk of rock, somewhat flat faced that is sitting at a 50* angle. We'll say 3' top to bottom. How would you rate it?

Here's everything that you'd have to take into consideration...

1. Approach. Is it loose, is it packed, is there a tight off-camber turn to get onto the face? Do you have to climb another rock to get to it? Is there water at the bottom?

2. Rock Face. How wide or narrow is it? Rough or smooth? Clean and dry or loose, dusty, or wet? Grippy or slick? Bumpy or flat? Does it start out at one angle and increase/decrease throughout the climb/descent?

3. Exit. How bad is the breakover at the top? Is it pointy or smoothed over? Does it drop off on the backside or can you transition to another rock or level ground?

I agree it would be very confusing trying to grade each obstacle individually. You could generalize it more and grade the course as a whole.

[Terranaut]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

It'd still be too complex. There are too many variables.

Say you've got a large chunk of rock, somewhat flat faced that is sitting at a 50* angle. We'll say 3' top to bottom. How would you rate it?

Here's everything that you'd have to take into consideration...

1. Approach. Is it loose, is it packed, is there a tight off-camber turn to get onto the face? Do you have to climb another rock to get to it? Is there water at the bottom?

2. Rock Face. How wide or narrow is it? Rough or smooth? Clean and dry or loose, dusty, or wet? Grippy or slick? Bumpy or flat? Does it start out at one angle and increase/decrease throughout the climb/descent?

3. Exit. How bad is the breakover at the top? Is it pointy or smoothed over? Does it drop off on the backside or can you transition to another rock or level ground?

"How would I rate it?". Well, as I suggested, I would not attempt to rate (grade) it before anyone has crawled it. Way to many variables as you point out. But after a bunch of guys have crawled it (or failed to) then I've got their scores and I would have stop watched them, and with some simple maths, I've got a grade on that obstacle for ya.

Now, if I'm doin' it right, I've done this for lots of obstacles and many drivers. Now if a driver asked me how I think he will do on that obstacle, I can look at the records and see how he measures up to this one, and tell him "You'll storm it!", or "Go play over there, save yourself the embarrasment!".

In the end, some might find it usefull. Personally, I think it's too much bother for most people, fraught with uncertainty, inaccurate and unreliable.

In short, aint gonna happen!

Cheers.