RCCrawler Forums

jcboof · 08-05-2010, 04:54 PM

Will bent upper links make a difference in upper link geometry?? Will a bent link change the direction and force that the chassis is pushed in.??

I've been thinking and talking about this for a while with a friend and neither him nor I are completely convinced one way or the other.

My thoughts are that if you have a bend up or bend down in the upper links that it will change the force applied to the chassis as far as the amount of travel and the force of the motion along with the angle that the force is applied. This will change the angle of the motion also.

His thoughts are that it will not change anything. A bent link is still connecting point A to point B and that nothing will change, the part will still have to move the same because the A-B points basically make a straight line.

There has not been much clarification that I have found on this theory.

I've always ran straight upper links on my trucks.

The only bend that would not make a difference is if the link was bent to the left or right IMO. But a bend up or down would make the change.

It has to do with the pivot point of the moving part and the arc that the part applying the force will make.

He and I are not arguing or fighting about this, but we cant figure out if either one of us are correct.

Anyone of the RCC physics/geometry gurus have any input on this???

JeremyH · 08-05-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcboof

His thoughts are that it will not change anything. A bent link is still connecting point A to point B and that nothing will change, the part will still have to move the same because the A-B points basically make a straight line.

jcboof · 08-05-2010, 08:22 PM

Can you explain your theory Jeremy?? Not doubting you, but I would some more input based on either theory or fact. I just want to know why it works as it does so I can better understand the geometry and the effect of link length, angle, and placement.

bigflex · 08-05-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyH

X2 your buddy is correct.

jcboof · 08-05-2010, 08:33 PM

So..... Theoretically, a link bent in a U shape would work the same as a straight link or a link that was bent all crazy up and down would work the same? As long as it connects point A to B right??

Dammit, Brian is right..... The more I think about it the more confused I seem to get myself. But I am slowly convincing myself that he is correct. I guess it has to do with the fact that the ball in the rod end pivots. if it was fixed, it would make a difference.

Ok, I basically got it now.

The link will follow whatever arc angle that the axle moves at, as long as the mounting point on the chassis is the same, the angle is only determined by the the angle from point A to B, not the angle of the link. Right??

Man, I guess i overthink things sometimes.

We are discussing this topic because of upper link clearance with the chassis standoffs, and I want to make sure that it will not affect the geometry if they are bent.

constantmotion · 08-05-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcboof

The link will follow whatever arc angle that the axle moves at, as long as the mounting point on the chassis is the same, the angle is only determined by the the angle from point A to B, not the angle of the link. Right??

Exactamundo. You can tie a knot in it and it'll still be the same.

jcboof · 08-05-2010, 08:41 PM

Awesome! Finally my brain can start to cool off. I was getting worried

SMR 510RR · 08-05-2010, 08:55 PM

The only things that will make a difference are length eye to eye and the angle that the balls mount vs. the angle of the link. The length one is obvious and and angle that the links mount at can cause binding. Other than that nothing else really matters.

Offroader5 · 08-06-2010, 07:55 AM

It won't change the geometry, but you will want that bent link to be stronger than a straight one. It'll have more tendency to want to bend if it's already bent.

kennyj · 08-06-2010, 07:58 AM

Also, this should be obvious, but the link is going to get shorter. You are going to have to get longer links if you want to bend them.

Terranaut · 08-06-2010, 02:00 PM

Just to add a little more weight to the debate, the straight line between the centers of the balls indicates the direction of the forces, and the distance between the ball centers dictates the geometry. The actual shape of the links makes no difference to geometry at all. It doesn't matter if the link is straight, bent, 'S' shaped or spiral the geometry remains the same if the balls are the same disrtance from each other.

In theory a bent link is not as strong as a straight one, but in practice the fairly small bends we normally use will have little impact, if straight is strong enough then a little bend won't hurt.

Bends don't affect geometry, changing the position of balls in relation to each other does.

Cheers.

gunnar · 08-06-2010, 02:11 PM

Doesn't matter how they are built, they all act straight. Depending on configuration, some do require more room for movement, however.

EvilTwin v2 · 08-06-2010, 02:32 PM

As stated, the shape of the link doesn't matter as for suspension geometry.

However, the biggest issue that I've run into with bent links is the additional stress that it puts on the link ends. This is especially a problem when using stock axial 3mm link ends. When throttling hard, the stress is applied at an angle to the link end and can break them.

That's why I prefer a curved link, such as the T1e rears over a traditional bent links. Of course, I also use 4mm Revo ends on anything that I can anymore.

rockwha? · 08-29-2010, 07:51 PM

the shortest line from point a to point b is a straight line...... But curves are funner

foolish 1 · 08-29-2010, 09:39 PM

No matter what you do it sees a srtaight line from a to b

08-05-2010, 04:54 PM	#1
jcboof I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: I miss Rowdy Posts: 2,238	Bent Link Geometry questions??? Will bent upper links make a difference in upper link geometry?? Will a bent link change the direction and force that the chassis is pushed in.?? I've been thinking and talking about this for a while with a friend and neither him nor I are completely convinced one way or the other. My thoughts are that if you have a bend up or bend down in the upper links that it will change the force applied to the chassis as far as the amount of travel and the force of the motion along with the angle that the force is applied. This will change the angle of the motion also. His thoughts are that it will not change anything. A bent link is still connecting point A to point B and that nothing will change, the part will still have to move the same because the A-B points basically make a straight line. There has not been much clarification that I have found on this theory. I've always ran straight upper links on my trucks. The only bend that would not make a difference is if the link was bent to the left or right IMO. But a bend up or down would make the change. It has to do with the pivot point of the moving part and the arc that the part applying the force will make. He and I are not arguing or fighting about this, but we cant figure out if either one of us are correct. Anyone of the RCC physics/geometry gurus have any input on this???

08-05-2010, 08:33 PM	#5
jcboof I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: I miss Rowdy Posts: 2,238	So..... Theoretically, a link bent in a U shape would work the same as a straight link or a link that was bent all crazy up and down would work the same? As long as it connects point A to B right?? Dammit, Brian is right..... The more I think about it the more confused I seem to get myself. But I am slowly convincing myself that he is correct. I guess it has to do with the fact that the ball in the rod end pivots. if it was fixed, it would make a difference. Ok, I basically got it now. The link will follow whatever arc angle that the axle moves at, as long as the mounting point on the chassis is the same, the angle is only determined by the the angle from point A to B, not the angle of the link. Right?? Man, I guess i overthink things sometimes. We are discussing this topic because of upper link clearance with the chassis standoffs, and I want to make sure that it will not affect the geometry if they are bent. Last edited by jcboof; 08-05-2010 at 08:35 PM.

08-05-2010, 08:22 PM	#3
jcboof I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: I miss Rowdy Posts: 2,238	Can you explain your theory Jeremy?? Not doubting you, but I would some more input based on either theory or fact. I just want to know why it works as it does so I can better understand the geometry and the effect of link length, angle, and placement.

08-05-2010, 08:41 PM	#7
jcboof I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: I miss Rowdy Posts: 2,238	Awesome! Finally my brain can start to cool off. I was getting worried

08-05-2010, 08:55 PM	#8
SMR 510RR I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,236	The only things that will make a difference are length eye to eye and the angle that the balls mount vs. the angle of the link. The length one is obvious and and angle that the links mount at can cause binding. Other than that nothing else really matters.

08-06-2010, 07:55 AM	#9
Offroader5 Picky Fab'r/Acetal Junky Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Arizona Desert/AJ Posts: 3,073	It won't change the geometry, but you will want that bent link to be stronger than a straight one. It'll have more tendency to want to bend if it's already bent.

08-06-2010, 07:58 AM	#10
kennyj Rock Crawler Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wildwood Posts: 502	Also, this should be obvious, but the link is going to get shorter. You are going to have to get longer links if you want to bend them.

08-06-2010, 02:00 PM	#11
Terranaut Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 372	Just to add a little more weight to the debate, the straight line between the centers of the balls indicates the direction of the forces, and the distance between the ball centers dictates the geometry. The actual shape of the links makes no difference to geometry at all. It doesn't matter if the link is straight, bent, 'S' shaped or spiral the geometry remains the same if the balls are the same disrtance from each other. In theory a bent link is not as strong as a straight one, but in practice the fairly small bends we normally use will have little impact, if straight is strong enough then a little bend won't hurt. Bends don't affect geometry, changing the position of balls in relation to each other does. Cheers.

08-06-2010, 02:11 PM	#12
gunnar Ex Nor-CalRCRC slave Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Mateo, CA. Posts: 2,242	Doesn't matter how they are built, they all act straight. Depending on configuration, some do require more room for movement, however.

08-06-2010, 02:32 PM	#13
EvilTwin v2 I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: EvilCrawlerDesigns@comcast.net Posts: 3,510	As stated, the shape of the link doesn't matter as for suspension geometry. However, the biggest issue that I've run into with bent links is the additional stress that it puts on the link ends. This is especially a problem when using stock axial 3mm link ends. When throttling hard, the stress is applied at an angle to the link end and can break them. That's why I prefer a curved link, such as the T1e rears over a traditional bent links. Of course, I also use 4mm Revo ends on anything that I can anymore.

08-29-2010, 07:51 PM	#14
rockwha? Rock Stacker Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: outside Posts: 54	the shortest line from point a to point b is a straight line...... But curves are funner

08-29-2010, 09:39 PM	#15
foolish 1 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: surprise Posts: 37	No matter what you do it sees a srtaight line from a to b

Sponsored Links

RCCrawler Forums

Thread: Bent Link Geometry questions???