RCCrawler Forums

STANG KILLA SS · 01-09-2009, 09:14 PM

i bought the rc4wd 90mm dual spring scale shocks for the ultimate truggy build. (3.22"/81.5mm eye to eye)

AWESOME looking shock. best scale shock ive seen produced to date. lots of cool little features, and great fit no slop.
im running about 4 drops of tamiya oil in them, just enough to lube the o-rings. but reports are those that fill them have 0 leaks.
but the springs were just too stiff for my tastes i could see it was limiting flex.
diggin threw my shock bag, i discovered stock TLT springs are a PERFECT fit and MUCH softer.

SO i did allitle before and after test.
i wanted the test to be as close to rtr weight as i could at this stage. the chassis is solid steel, and i put the rear steel cage work on, and then put a battery on the skid (neither shown below)
just using the chassis/cage/batterys own weight(no forced articulation) i lifted the front tire until it lifted the rear tire, i got 1.4" of flex.
next i took off the stock double springs and spacer and replaced them with stock TLT springs. same test, same weight, lifted the front tire and it lifted the rear tire at 2.8" of flex

. double the flex and MUCH smoother suspension movement. yet still supports the rigs weight without saging.
i beleive the lighter your rig the better results youll get. as pig rigs can compress the hard stock springs better. but you will still see major improvements either way. (this rigs heavy)

heres the shocks with the TLT springs on them

here you can see the rest of the mod, you'll noticed from the first stock website pic, i fliped over the top and bottom spring retainers, they have a bevel on them that keeps the spring perfectly captured and centered (the TLT spring is like .001" too small to slide over the stock perchs like the stock springs do) so this works, and works almost like they designed them to do this, especially the bottom one.

if youve got these shocks, this $5 mod is definatly worth looking into

Cory

TSS

DwaneO · 01-09-2009, 09:31 PM

Great idea , I actually bought the softer springs and then cut some off the old one to lower my height a bit and have a bit of droop , I'm gona go try this right now on them.
Thanks

Dwane

4xFord · 01-09-2009, 09:36 PM

Great post Cory, I can't wait to do this mod to mine!

Robbob · 01-10-2009, 06:04 AM

Great info. I found the same thing on my 110's, even RC4wd's soft spring gives them a bouncy feel.

RC18 springs work well too, and they have different rates, if you still want that dual rate or the appearance of it.

NoBrainer · 01-12-2009, 07:41 AM

I opened up mine and filled them with Tamiya 300 oil.
I also made some cut's in the ring inside, so the oil could flow free from one end to another.
Then I removed the lower spring and replaced it with one spring from the 110 mm shock set. So I ended up with oil inside that could move freely and with 1x 90mm spring and 1x 110mm spring on each of my 4 shocks.

Those where just great. They are soft and have much more flex.

Try it if you can...

slolx50 · 01-22-2009, 07:38 PM

Cory,

Am I reading this correctly, "3.22"/81.5mm eye to eye"?

Their 90mm shocks are only 81.5mm long?

Also you wouldn't by chance have a fully compressed length handy would you?

Thanks,

Alex

4wd4ws · 01-27-2009, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slolx50

Am I reading this correctly, "3.22"/81.5mm eye to eye"?
Their 90mm shocks are only 81.5mm long?

Total length is 90mm.
Center of hole to center of hole is 81.5mm.

slolx50 · 01-27-2009, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4wd4ws

Total length is 90mm.
Center of hole to center of hole is 81.5mm.

Thanks!

STANG KILLA SS · 01-27-2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slolx50

Cory,

Am I reading this correctly, "3.22"/81.5mm eye to eye"?

Their 90mm shocks are only 81.5mm long?

Also you wouldn't by chance have a fully compressed length handy would you?

Thanks,

Alex

thats correct, fully compressed is 2.4"

eric113 · 01-27-2009, 10:05 AM

Another thing you can try is losi rear mini T springs, they same size as the rc4wd dual springs.

surya.prash17 · 10-30-2009, 07:40 AM

I tried all the above things and still wasnt happy with the shocks. So as a last resort i removed the both the o rings and just left the white plastic bushing in the shocks. And man the difference was amazing and it also felt a lot smoother and softer.If you need more softness you can order the softer springs RC4WD offers or other springs mentioned in this post. The o rings are not required as rc4wd recommends running them without oil.

Big Mike · 10-30-2009, 07:48 AM

I gotta stray off topic a bit here, cause that chassis looks great -

How did you get that nice, even coat of rust on the frame rails? Did that just happen or did you use a browning solution?

C*H*U*D · 10-30-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surya.prash17

The o rings are not required as rc4wd recommends running them without oil.

I haven't seen this on their site, but I have no doubts that they can be run without oil.

I have two pairs of these shocks.....one on my 2.2 scaler, and the other on my 2.2 axial based rig. I know there are better shocks for this, but I use what I have. Besides, I really want to see these shocks perform and not just look good.

My initial impression of these shocks isn't that the springs are too stiff, but there is too much initial stiction caused by the double O-ring setup. I removed one O-ring, but the extra space allowed the remaining ring to slip out of position and allowed the shock to leak:

I realized that if I had a spacer to take the place of the second O-ring, it would keep the first ring in place and allow for proper sealing. I really wanted to make this out of plastic, but all I had in the shop today was 1/4" aluminum rod. The spacers I made are the same as the plastic spacer, except .080" thick.....roughly the thickness of an uncompressed O-ring.:

Here is a shot with the plastic guide, O-ring and aluminum spacer installed:

Thanks STANG KILLA SS for starting this thread, because I really think these guys can be made into a great scale shock.

.

Szczerba · 10-30-2009, 09:49 PM

Good stuff ^^^

I just replaced the RC4WD o-rings with some smaller orange/red o-rings I had from other shocks. Tons more movement and alot smoother. I am running them in droop so I can't attest to the spring rate.

Katan · 10-30-2009, 10:42 PM

I have done a bit of investigatiion into why these shocks are sticking and found that the spacer between the two O rings was the cause. The spacer is not a tight fit inside the housing. However, the spacer is a tight fit on the shaft. This means that the spacer can tilt slightly inside the damper causing the shaft to get stuck. I believe the solution is to bore out the spacer so if it does tilt slightly it will not cause the shaft to get stuck.

The other problem is that the e-rings used on the piston are too big and cover the holes. They can be replaced with ones with a smaller OD.

Mad4Rnr · 10-30-2009, 11:04 PM

On the 80mm version I'm using Associated orange o-rings and blue MRC springs:

On some 90mm versions I have I've used the same o-rings as above with one of the RC4WD 110mm soft springs and the black delrin spacer

Also I don't fill them all the way up with oil cause they cavitate easily, just a few drops will do, sucks casue they have almost zero damping.

I wish the surface finish on the shaft was better them maybe they would be smoother...

bmuzz1 · 10-30-2009, 11:08 PM

All very good suggestions. I'm going to have to try some of these ideas on my Toyota.

C*H*U*D · 10-31-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katan

I have done a bit of investigatiion into why these shocks are sticking and found that the spacer between the two O rings was the cause. The spacer is not a tight fit inside the housing. However, the spacer is a tight fit on the shaft. This means that the spacer can tilt slightly inside the damper causing the shaft to get stuck. I believe the solution is to bore out the spacer so if it does tilt slightly it will not cause the shaft to get stuck.

The other problem is that the e-rings used on the piston are too big and cover the holes. They can be replaced with ones with a smaller OD.

I haven't noticed the shaft being tight on mine......maybe it's worn in, but I can see your point about it tilting since it is very thin. I think I'd like to remake the aluminum spacers I installed last night, out of plastic. Make them thicker so they can't tilt, and eliminate the thin stock piece all together.

I've also noticed the E-ring problem as well, and plan to replace them soon too. I thought that was a bit of an oversight on RC4WD's part. I really like these shocks, I just want them to perform as well as they look.

Also, Mad4Rnr, where did you get the Delrin spacer?

.

Mad4Rnr · 10-31-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

Also, Mad4Rnr, where did you get the Delrin spacer?

.

the delrin spacers came in a kit from RC4WD with softer springs, they are really made for the 110mm shocks

http://www.rc4wdstore.com/2/product_...roducts_id=500

i used just one of those soft springs and one of the stock springs so they are actually dual rate now, the delrin spacer is much smoohther when it rubs on the shock body

DUDE · 10-31-2009, 05:41 PM

I have the 80mm shocks

I removed the stock rc4wd O rings and replaced them with Associated red silicone O rings #5407. That made the shocks work like they should without sticking. I also slotted the tiny hole open on the piston inside and used 10wt oil. The shocks work like butter with the stock springs and are just right for spring stiffness.

01-09-2009, 09:14 PM	#1
STANG KILLA SS ~THE SCALE SHOP~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: KILLEEN TX Posts: 10,056	RC4WD 90mm scale shocks mod i bought the rc4wd 90mm dual spring scale shocks for the ultimate truggy build. (3.22"/81.5mm eye to eye) AWESOME looking shock. best scale shock ive seen produced to date. lots of cool little features, and great fit no slop. im running about 4 drops of tamiya oil in them, just enough to lube the o-rings. but reports are those that fill them have 0 leaks. but the springs were just too stiff for my tastes i could see it was limiting flex. diggin threw my shock bag, i discovered stock TLT springs are a PERFECT fit and MUCH softer. SO i did allitle before and after test. i wanted the test to be as close to rtr weight as i could at this stage. the chassis is solid steel, and i put the rear steel cage work on, and then put a battery on the skid (neither shown below) just using the chassis/cage/batterys own weight(no forced articulation) i lifted the front tire until it lifted the rear tire, i got 1.4" of flex. next i took off the stock double springs and spacer and replaced them with stock TLT springs. same test, same weight, lifted the front tire and it lifted the rear tire at 2.8" of flex . double the flex and MUCH smoother suspension movement. yet still supports the rigs weight without saging. i beleive the lighter your rig the better results youll get. as pig rigs can compress the hard stock springs better. but you will still see major improvements either way. (this rigs heavy) heres the shocks with the TLT springs on them here you can see the rest of the mod, you'll noticed from the first stock website pic, i fliped over the top and bottom spring retainers, they have a bevel on them that keeps the spring perfectly captured and centered (the TLT spring is like .001" too small to slide over the stock perchs like the stock springs do) so this works, and works almost like they designed them to do this, especially the bottom one. if youve got these shocks, this $5 mod is definatly worth looking into Cory TSS Last edited by STANG KILLA SS; 01-09-2009 at 09:20 PM.

10-30-2009, 10:42 PM	#15
Katan Rock Crawler Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 829	I have done a bit of investigatiion into why these shocks are sticking and found that the spacer between the two O rings was the cause. The spacer is not a tight fit inside the housing. However, the spacer is a tight fit on the shaft. This means that the spacer can tilt slightly inside the damper causing the shaft to get stuck. I believe the solution is to bore out the spacer so if it does tilt slightly it will not cause the shaft to get stuck. The other problem is that the e-rings used on the piston are too big and cover the holes. They can be replaced with ones with a smaller OD. Last edited by Katan; 10-30-2009 at 10:56 PM.

01-09-2009, 09:31 PM	#2
DwaneO Oliver Custom Knives Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bloomfield NM , not something stupid Posts: 1,047	Great idea , I actually bought the softer springs and then cut some off the old one to lower my height a bit and have a bit of droop , I'm gona go try this right now on them. Thanks Dwane

01-09-2009, 09:36 PM	#3
4xFord I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston Posts: 3,761	Great post Cory, I can't wait to do this mod to mine!

01-10-2009, 06:04 AM	#4
Robbob Custom Carbon Fiber Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Connecticut :( Posts: 4,501	Great info. I found the same thing on my 110's, even RC4wd's soft spring gives them a bouncy feel. RC18 springs work well too, and they have different rates, if you still want that dual rate or the appearance of it.

01-12-2009, 07:41 AM	#5
NoBrainer Newbie Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 30	I opened up mine and filled them with Tamiya 300 oil. I also made some cut's in the ring inside, so the oil could flow free from one end to another. Then I removed the lower spring and replaced it with one spring from the 110 mm shock set. So I ended up with oil inside that could move freely and with 1x 90mm spring and 1x 110mm spring on each of my 4 shocks. Those where just great. They are soft and have much more flex. Try it if you can...

01-22-2009, 07:38 PM	#6
slolx50 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 2one7 Posts: 259	Cory, Am I reading this correctly, "3.22"/81.5mm eye to eye"? Their 90mm shocks are only 81.5mm long? Also you wouldn't by chance have a fully compressed length handy would you? Thanks, Alex

01-27-2009, 10:05 AM	#10
eric113 Moderator Rule Breaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 5,970	Another thing you can try is losi rear mini T springs, they same size as the rc4wd dual springs.

10-30-2009, 07:40 AM	#11
surya.prash17 Pebble Pounder Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Dallas Posts: 169	I tried all the above things and still wasnt happy with the shocks. So as a last resort i removed the both the o rings and just left the white plastic bushing in the shocks. And man the difference was amazing and it also felt a lot smoother and softer.If you need more softness you can order the softer springs RC4WD offers or other springs mentioned in this post. The o rings are not required as rc4wd recommends running them without oil.

10-30-2009, 07:48 AM	#12
Big Mike I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Martinsburg WV Posts: 2,781	I gotta stray off topic a bit here, cause that chassis looks great - How did you get that nice, even coat of rust on the frame rails? Did that just happen or did you use a browning solution?

10-30-2009, 09:49 PM	#14
Szczerba I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Castle Rock, WA Posts: 8,785	Good stuff ^^^ I just replaced the RC4WD o-rings with some smaller orange/red o-rings I had from other shocks. Tons more movement and alot smoother. I am running them in droop so I can't attest to the spring rate.

10-30-2009, 11:04 PM	#16
Mad4Rnr RCC Addict Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Penngrove Posts: 1,809	On the 80mm version I'm using Associated orange o-rings and blue MRC springs: On some 90mm versions I have I've used the same o-rings as above with one of the RC4WD 110mm soft springs and the black delrin spacer Also I don't fill them all the way up with oil cause they cavitate easily, just a few drops will do, sucks casue they have almost zero damping. I wish the surface finish on the shaft was better them maybe they would be smoother...

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10-30-2009, 11:08 PM	#17
bmuzz1 I wanna be Dave Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: San Tan Valley Posts: 4,267	All very good suggestions. I'm going to have to try some of these ideas on my Toyota.

10-31-2009, 05:41 PM	#20
DUDE RCC Addict Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The other Crawler State Posts: 1,247	I have the 80mm shocks I removed the stock rc4wd O rings and replaced them with Associated red silicone O rings #5407. That made the shocks work like they should without sticking. I also slotted the tiny hole open on the piston inside and used 10wt oil. The shocks work like butter with the stock springs and are just right for spring stiffness.

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Thread: RC4WD 90mm scale shocks mod