Newb issue and could use some advice

[TC09mini]

I am VERY new at this so excuse my ignorance at what will appear a very obvious question. Here's my set up so far.

TCS mini Edge Frame
3Racing High Clearance Links
RCBros Crawler Thread Aluminum Shocks w/ 55 weight shock oil
Some assorted recommendations by all of you

The issue (i think) is called torque spin. (again excuse my lack of knowledge) I have posted this video so you can see the exact issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knXdF1fZQmE

The front right wheel, when given throttle lifts especially when turning. Any suggestions as to how to fix this? 4 Link? Different weight shock oil?

Also is anyone running these shocks having issues with the front shocks rubbing with the servo mount. Or anyone else running this frame having this issue.

I think it is simply an issue of too big shocks and a poor mounting location. Any suggestions?

[JeepinOR]

Welcome.

Indeed, it seems you've a bit of Torque Twist going on. It's also getting to your rear right just a bit when reversing. I'm surprised to see it on the opposite sides, though, as TT with the MRC is usually seen with the front right and rear left. I've read about some weird things happening with high-clearance links; perhaps it's a combination of chassis, links, and overall setup.

I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to give you a definite, but in some cases...
-upper 4-links to go with the lowers, often helps
-stronger springs/spring spacers on the shock(s) experiencing the TT (in your case, obviously, the right rear)


Big shocks and interesting mounting locations often take a bit of tweaking to get right. I'm not familiar with your chassis, but you might try spacing out the shocks a bit to see if you can gain a little clearance from your servo mounting plate. I haven't needed to, but some drivers use longer screws for the shock mounting (axle side) and mount the shock to the outside of the bracket, rather than in the middle; when this is done, most folks put some kind of spacer on the longer screw to take up the room where the shock originally would have been mounted. (Hopefully someone will chime in with pictures to clarify.)

Here's some classic reading about Torque Twist and Linkage and Suspension. And there's much more to be found using the Search: try "torque twist" with an Advanced Search...

Torque twist/HELP PLEEEEEEEEEEASE!!!!!!!!
4-Link 101?
finding the correct suspension link length

[SlickRockSpider]

What jeepinCA said


From a stock MRC. I had a lot of torque twist. All I did , this made a huge difference, was lower your center of gravity. I would mount your battery on the rear axle. Lower the whole rig buy putting 3/8-1/2 inch fuel line in the shocks on the shaft. I was blowin away buy how little torque twist the rig now. I am using stock every thing including those sh*tty stock shocks. My lower links are almost parallel (level) with the ground. I would post pics but the rig is in pieces. good luck I love the look of the TCS tuber.


Evan

[apuinator]

This thread helped me figure out how to limit the effects of torque twist.

Anti Squat and Suspension Tech

From my understanding, you can't get rid or it, but you can limit's the effects of it.

I prefer to run all my weight up front. This helps when going uphill or break overs. I cut a KK Zero 3.5 chassis and it helped me out a lot. I think it was a combination of a skinnier chassis and link placement. Also with that chassis the transmission was offset allowing the drive train to be more inline with the axles. I now have a KK Mini Zero and have been playing with the link placement.

This is a triall and error toubleshooting effort, but you will learn a lot in the process. In the above thread you will see what link placement can do for your crawler.

[soundcolor]

My answers are posted in the RED

Originally Posted by TC09minilosi

I am VERY new at this so excuse my ignorance at what will appear a very obvious question. Here's my set up so far.

TCS mini Edge Frame
3Racing High Clearance Links
RCBros Crawler Thread Aluminum Shocks w/ 55 weight shock oil
Some assorted recommendations by all of you

The issue (i think) is called torque spin. (again excuse my lack of knowledge) I have posted this video so you can see the exact issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knXdF1fZQmE

Holy crap batman, thats alot of torque twist, but after watching the video about 10 times in a row I think I have nailed down your problems, (btw, thanks for the vid, it is very, very useful).

The front right wheel, when given throttle lifts especially when turning. Any suggestions as to how to fix this? 4 Link? Different weight shock oil?

Ok, It looks to me as you are not running any springs at all with your shocks, while this is fine if you have a four link suspension set-up, you are still running the stock 3 link. Now here is where the problem comes in. The shocks alone do not have enough resistance to keep the body from listing violently to the side. (sort of like a boat taking on water..LOL). I understand your situation witht he shocks completely, I have the exact same shocks, and am running them without springs, and only 50 wt oil in them.
Here is what you are going to need to do to quell the problems you are having.
1st. And most likely the best solution to the problem is the either make your own, or buy a 4 link kit at least for the rear suspension. Although this can be the pricest option, it is also the best (tho it shouldn't set you back more than 20 or 30 bucks).
2nd. If you cannot afford a four link then the next best thing you are going to want to do is to get some springs, contact William at RCBRoS and get a set of the white, or orange springs from him for your shock and it will help dramtically.
3rd. If you cannot do either of those then this is what you are going to want to do, tho this is the least effective, and last resort. Use at least 70wt oil in your shocks.

Now, why does this happen. Because the upper Y link in the 3 link formula mounts to a pivot on the axle. And it does absolutely nothing for keeping the suspension movements in check, it only allows the axle to pivot around an axis. A true 4 link does not work this way. Instead, it only allows the axle to move in a certain defined path, and only when acted on in a certain way. Its kind of a complicated thing to explain, but trust me when I say you need a 4 link in the rear at the very least.

Feel free to use any, or all of the above suggestions in combination with each other for the best results.


Also is anyone running these shocks having issues with the front shocks rubbing with the servo mount. Or anyone else running this frame having this issue.

My front shock doesnt rub the servo mount, but it does rub the servo itself, no big deal for me really. You on the other hand my have more of a problem than I do. 1st, is the shock shaft hitting the servo mount? If it is, then that is a huge problem that you need to correct right now. If it isnt, and its not causing any binding in the suspension movement then it really isnt that big of a deal.

Here are a few tips to help aleviate the problem in any case.
Have you considered flipping the shocks upside down. This can be achieved with the use of a little nitro fuel tubing in the caps eylet and then mounting it tot he axle. The shaft end should bolt up no problems.
Also, you may want to try clearancing the servo plate itself, so that the shock does not rub against it. And finally, if your chassis has multiple mounting points for the shocks you may want to try some of those.

I think it is simply an issue of too big shocks and a poor mounting location. Any suggestions?

The shocks are increadibly huge, but I love mine and wouldnt even consider switching to anything else.

One other thing i noticed is that it seems you have a really high ride height, you may want to look into ways of bringing it down, the higher the truck rides, the higher its center of gravity, and the more torque twist is going to be apparant.


Other than that, take a look at your setup and see if the where you have the electronics and battery mounted are the absolute lowest possible place you can get them. The lower they are, the better the truck will perform.

You may also want to consider weighing the wheels down, the more they weigh, the harder they are to pick up.

Good luck and if you have any more questions feel free to ask


Darryl

[TC09mini]

Wow thanks everyone for all of the advice. . . and thanks explaining everything.

My front shocks were rubbing the servo, not the mount. To fix that issue I followed JeepinCA's advice and moved the mounts to the outside of frame, front and rear. This definatly helped with the TT as well.

I mounted my battery over the rear axel as SlickRockSpider recommended and that has ended the rear TT.

Soundcolor thanks for all of your details and insights. What recommendations could you make for a four link kit? I am at school and so fabrication at this point is completely out of the question so I'll have to go the bolt on route. I have seen this mount: http://www.rcbros.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6364

what else is out there?

Again thanks to everyone!

[TC09mini]

Originally Posted by apuinator

this thread helped me figure out how to limit the effects of torque twist.

Anti Squat and Suspension Tech

from my understanding, you can't get rid or it, but you can limit's the effects of it.

I prefer to run all my weight up front. This helps when going uphill or break overs. I cut a kk zero 3.5 chassis and it helped me out a lot. I think it was a combination of a skinnier chassis and link placement. Also with that chassis the transmission was offset allowing the drive train to be more inline with the axles. I now have a kk mini zero and have been playing with the link placement.

This is a triall and error toubleshooting effort, but you will learn a lot in the process. In the above thread you will see what link placement can do for your crawler.

thanks for this too!

[soundcolor]

I use the RcBros 4 link plates... Contact William at RcBros.com for help, you can also member search him on here and find him under the name 'RcBro'