Crawling my old Kyosho Double Dare

[Ed Luvuh]

I've pulled her out of the attic. Gave it a good dusting, and got to work.

A quick run down on probably one of the most terribly engineered rc trucks ever.

The year was 1989. Clod Busters were all the rage with their AWD powered by twin motors, AWS, and never ending list of aftermarket parts.

To battle this, Kyosho introduced what they thought to be a formidable opponent known as...The Double Dare. Like the Clod, the Double Dare had AWD, AWS, and twin 540 size motors. Well as most know, the Clod Busters are still here today...and the Double Dares are not.

List of problems this truck had:

1. AWS worked great...as long as you liked turning left only.
2. The twin LeMans 540 motors would eat through a typical NiCad battery in about...oh...2 minutes.
3. Remember how i said this thing only liked to turn left? Well it was almost always followed with by a body killing roll over.
4. EVERYTHING BROKE! Yep, even with the short, short run times...I still mananged to break things...which lead to losing things...which lead to getting the parents to drive me to the hobby store, which caused them to gripe, which made me feel bad...errr....I'll save it for the theorpist.
5. Suspension sucked...REAL BAD! The kit came with 8 shocks (only 4 had springs) and had about an inch to two inches of travel...maybe.

Well, long story short...I ended up buying a 2WD buggy and giving up on my poor, barely used Double Dare.

Fast foward 19 years to the present...

After years and years of procrastinating bringing the Ol Double Dare back to life, I finally do it. List of Mods (and how they helped) include:

1. Stock 3 piece wheels and large tires replaced with ProLine Masher 2000's and smaller wheels (this made the truck more responsive and less likely to roll over).
2. AWS eliminated (It now turns right as well as left).
3. Fristion shocks replaced with 4 oil shocks off a traxxas rustler.
4. Metal Z' clips in between suspension arms as well as steering restrictor posts are removed (added probably another inch of wheel travel at all four corners).
5. Wheels hubs are replaced with hex hubs off a Traxxas Rustler (stock hubs were suseptable to breaking and limited my selection of wheels).
6. Mechanical speed controller replaced with an ESC.
7. LeMans motors replaced with two 27t motors.
8. High capacity Venom 4200mah NiMh battery (I now have run times of over 10 minutes).
9. Plastic bushings replaced with ball bearings (5x10 size) at the axles.
10. Plumbers puddy placed in both planetary diff gears to lock em up (does not turn as quick on the street...but who really cares based on NOT seeing wheel spin everytime i try to run over anything bigger than a marble).









Future plans? Run the tires off this truck...afterall...it's taken me nearly 20 years to get it running the way it was supposed to.

[FrankyRizzo]

I had one of those and loved it. I would like to find one for my collection.

[Natedog]

Nice,, still have my Kyosho Big Brute but the original body died many years ago. Amazed your body is still there.

[BigSerge]

Hi I stumbled accross a Double Dare for free co-worker dusted it out closet and just gave it away. Anyhow I am in need of a Left Front Knuckle Arm. I am new to the Hobby and was told this puppy is like vintage and of course its the run around on the net to find that part. Any Info as to where I can find the knuckle arm would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance

[SeniorXJ]

-Sorry 2 resurect an old thread, but i have the exact same situation & want 2 use the same plans as u did!!!
-So as the story goes, i dug thru the attic for hrs till i found my old double dare, along side star wars figures & baseball cards!!
-Mine is fully assembled but not running so well. I have the original instruction manual, body stickers, body thats painted, but not the box.

-I want 2 do exactly what u did & swap motors, move to a 9.6 battery, new steerin servos, ball bearings, metal wishbones, adj oil shocks, & prob an ESC. Everything else i wanna keep the same & maybe just strenghten up what i can like thicker steerin linkadge, & so on..!!

-I dont wanna break the bank here, nor fry any components, as i already have a 1:10 rock crawler, & my 1:1 sized Jeep XJ!! If u read this, can u PM me for further details on where u got the parts, & what upgrades have worked best for u???

Thanks a Mill,
SeniorXJ

[Sazzlefrats]

Mines throughally worn and beaten. I'm glad to find out that I can put more modern wheels on the thing.

Is there anything to update the steering linkage? One of mine the rear steering is cracked.

BTW I was doing some measurements. I think I can slip a 3s lipo in the original battery slot. I just bought a pair of 21t titan 550 motors and matching e-maxx esc. Not sure if I can put the 3s lipo on that esc, but I'll research that later.

My main thing is to get the steering and suspension and wheels updated. So if you get anywhere with the steering (I am keeping 4WS) let me know.

[SeniorXJ]

Originally Posted by Sazzlefrats

Mines throughally worn and beaten. I'm glad to find out that I can put more modern wheels on the thing.

Is there anything to update the steering linkage? One of mine the rear steering is cracked.

BTW I was doing some measurements. I think I can slip a 3s lipo in the original battery slot. I just bought a pair of 21t titan 550 motors and matching e-maxx esc. Not sure if I can put the 3s lipo on that esc, but I'll research that later.

My main thing is to get the steering and suspension and wheels updated. So if you get anywhere with the steering (I am keeping 4WS) let me know.

-I made a full reply on the other thread about making my own all aluminum steering & using newer styled heim ends. I probably wouldnt put 21T motors on a stock 1989 plastic Kyosho tranny & gears!! U may be able to find some gears in aluminum as i know i will be searching for the same!!

-After i get my ESC & new Servo all hooked up & working at 100%, then ill upgrade the LeMans 05 motors, to probably 27T 540 sized motors. I'll also be using a 9.6v NiMH 3800mah battery as i dont think the lipos are a good aplication on a vintage RC even with updated electronics!!!
(Im following the, "keep it simple stupid" philosophy with this build!)

[SeniorXJ]

-I have the steering all mapped out now BUT its not permanent as ive used the old servo as a templet since the new one is still in the mail & the dimentions will be slightly different. Its actualy a very simple setup & will just need fine tunning with the length of the rods. Tryin to figure out how to post up pics at the moment...

[Sazzlefrats]

Email me the pics (jkaminsky2002@yahoo.com), or you can put them up on photobucket and link them in this thread.

[johnnyh66]

Ha, I'm playing around with a DD I bought cheap.
I too bought 2 21T Titan motors and the Novak EVX esc.
(maybe I should've gone 27 or higher but I got a good deal on the 21's)

My current problem is the pinion.
I pulled brass pinions off the origional motors and put them on the new motors... no problem right, wrong.
The pinions do not mesh with the spur gears... I'm guessing the guy I bought it from just put them on there.

Does anyone know what the pitch is supossed to be?

[SeniorXJ]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

Ha, I'm playing around with a DD I bought cheap.
I too bought 2 21T Titan motors and the Novak EVX esc.
(maybe I should've gone 27 or higher but I got a good deal on the 21's)

My current problem is the pinion.
I pulled brass pinions off the origional motors and put them on the new motors... no problem right, wrong.
The pinions do not mesh with the spur gears... I'm guessing the guy I bought it from just put them on there.

Does anyone know what the pitch is supossed to be?

-The stock brass pinion is a 13 tooth & the DD has an adjuster for proper gear mesh. The stock gear it contacts is a white nylon 29 tooth so check ur interns on the diffs just incase he changed the gearing.
Hope that helps!!

-Question for ya, with 21T motors, what have u done to replace the stock dogbones & its hubs??? I hope u dont think the stock plastic dogs will hold with ur 21T motors since they cant even handle the 2 decade old lemans motors with its plastic bushings!! The axle uses 5x10mm bearings & is HIGHLY suggested!! Hell on its first outting completely stock, the dogbones will break, fall out, or wear out!!!!!

-Im still searchin for good metal replacements that i wont have to worry about before i even install its new components!! Say, if u dont mind me askin, how much did u pay for ur Novak & motors?? Ebay purchase??

[Sazzlefrats]

My dogbones lasted on stock motors for 8yrs, well the fronts have lasted 8yrs, I had to replace the rears after about 5yrs, but they are still worn more than the fronts after the 3yrs of use I placed on them since then. I think if I understand motors correctly... the 21turns are capable of higher RPM than the 27turn or the stock 05 motors. That shouldn't be a problem, the trucks without mods, can't even get to top speed before flipping :p

I was talking to a guy on RCMT... he knows another guy that sells stock clodbuster motors (long can 27t for something like 16 a pair plus shipping) "CPE MT" I believe is the guy who has them.

I also own some 21t motors, I'll try them, but if they don't work out, I'll buy the clodbuster motors. I was shown a video of a USA-1 that was running a 7.4 lipo, and the clod stopper motors and all I can say is that he had more torque than I ever got with any motor combination on my double dare ever had. It was a beautiful sight!

BTW I got a screamer of a deal for my 21t's... I got them with a EVX2 esc brand new for something like 50 bucks in total.


johnnyh66, looking at the following manual. There was no listed pitch. I don't think there were ever any aftermarket idler gear swap outs. My suggestion if you can, take it down to a local hobby shop, and see if they can figure it out. http://www.vintagekyosho.com/manuals..._dare_4wds.pdf

SeniorXJ, did you get your steering sorted out? I'm super curious as to what you have done?