Damping - oil filled vs sprung for leafs

[stimpy]

Ok, so I'm the sort of chap that feels damping should be oil filled not sprung but obviously on these rigs they come sprung.

It looks like most folk are running sprung and some even full external coil overs with the leaf set up. To me it seems insane from both the scale aspect and keeping true to leafs to run the full coil overs but I'd imagine their is a significant traction advantage and the leafs are just used to locate axles in this set up.

So.... I have 2 questions all in the spirit of a debate :-) :

1. What are folks thoughts on this.
2. And anyone running oil filled shocks and their thoughts.

This is with respect to running leafs only!

Thanks.

[new2rocks]

Your instincts are spot on. I run mine with oil and no internal (or external) springs, and it works much better than with the internal springs (the leafs actually get to do work). The stock shocks hold oil pretty well and work fine with that type of setup, though the damping obviously isn't as good as it would be with a wider-bored shock/damper. On one of TF2s, I've used the RRD Emulsions without external springs (so they are Swampers only), and I love the setup. I'm using Superlifts without internal springs on another TF2 (so far only test runs in the yard), and Emus without internal springs on a leafed Cruiser (again only test runs so far).

[stimpy]

Originally Posted by new2rocks

Your instincts are spot on. I run mine with oil and no internal (or external) springs, and it works much better than with the internal springs (the leafs actually get to do work). The stock shocks hold oil pretty well and work fine with that type of setup, though the damping obviously isn't as good as it would be with a wider-bored shock/damper. On one of TF2s, I've used the RRD Emulsions without external springs (so they are Swampers only), and I love the setup. I'm using Superlifts without internal springs on another TF2 (so far only test runs in the yard), and Emus without internal springs on a leafed Cruiser (again only test runs so far).

Good to hear. I'm still building my kit but i imagine folk are requiring the 'spring' options to create some quicker rebound. Currently i've built it with red leafs and a black supporter - i imagine i may need to go back to blacks on the back in the future not just for strength but also rebound...

On a side note i presume you are running longer shocks on the fronts for better crawling ability? And are you running any drop shackles?. Thanks.

[Smonkman]

What weight oil are people running in their shocks?

[HANgOVER Airbrush RC]

I've got the Emu's on mine. Previous owner converted to 4link. I've converted the rear back to leaf. I'll eventually do the front.
Black springs, with helpers.
Emu's have their internal springs as of now.
Did great on a short test crawl, but as of now I can only say, that the front definitely has more articulation than the rear.
But I think I want to hit the reset button (as I do with all my used rigs) and convert everything back to "factory" spec.
Then I'll consider upgrades/mods.

I run (I believe) 60 wt, conventional oil in an SCX, trying to slow the dampening. I'll be experimenting with the factory TF2 before long, I'm sure...
I want them to act like Ascender. Slow and controlled.

[new2rocks]

Originally Posted by Smonkman

What weight oil are people running in their shocks?

I started out with 30 wt originally but have been going heavier lately (50-70). Depends on the shock, leaf setup, weight of rig, personal preference, etc.

Originally Posted by stimpy

Good to hear. I'm still building my kit but i imagine folk are requiring the 'spring' options to create some quicker rebound. Currently i've built it with red leafs and a black supporter - i imagine i may need to go back to blacks on the back in the future not just for strength but also rebound...

Not sure it's that so much as a lot of people not realizing that you can remove the internal springs and how to get everything to work better without them.

Originally Posted by stimpy

On a side note i presume you are running longer shocks on the fronts for better crawling ability? And are you running any drop shackles?. Thanks.

Yes. Gelande 2 hoops with longer shocks up front help a lot (I run 90mm up front), as do the Chino mod, revolvers (formerly shooters) and z-boxes (formerly t-boxes).

Lots more info on leaf and suspension setup options in these threads:
Team RC4WD's Comprehensive Guide to the TF2
TF2 = time to push my scale envelope
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/rc4wd...ew2-rocks.html
How-to convert from links to leafs on a Gelande chassis

[fr8cture]

Hmm I just have a dab of oil in my shocks without springs. Filling them with oil works well?

[new2rocks]

Originally Posted by fr8cture

Hmm I just have a dab of oil in my shocks without springs. Filling them with oil works well?

Very... It serves the same purpose as in coil-over shocks. The thicker the oil, the more it will dampen suspension movements by slowing the rate at which the shock, and therefore the axle, can cycle up or down. The right weight oil can make the truck less bouncy and more stable. As long as you don't overfill the shock, total suspension travel in either direction remains the same.

[Reflektr]

First thing I did on mine was add the Gelande hoops and 90mm Emus. I'm only running the main and middle leaves.... And because I'm weird and love heavier oil, I put some Associated 5k diff oil in the shocks and yanked out the springs. I love using heavier oil in the shocks on heavy trucks. Did the same thing on my 8.7 lb Cruiser and I love how it works.

[stimpy]

Thanks new2rocks. I have read all those threads already!

I have gelande front hoops too but was still deciding on shocks and length. I was also absolutely sure on upgraded shackles initially but recently have wavered on them - also due to cost tbh. How much do these shackles compromise side sloping? And how much do they add to the height of the rig? Looks to be about 1/4".

Trying to keep my rig low cog.

[Reflektr]

I'm still on the fence on those shooter shackles and t-boxes... I know a lot of people run and like them, but the cost for what it is kind of turned me off - But that's just me. You can do the "Chino mod" to your leaves and it should add a little more give. I know Mr. Fr8cture used Bruiser shackles to help him out a little. I know if you want a lot of travel and a lower cog, you made the right move with the taller shock hoops. At least realistic travel... Cuz that's what this lovable little rig is all about!

[fr8cture]

I also chino modded my leafs. I cant stand the look of shooters so I wont be getting any. lol

[stimpy]

Originally Posted by fr8cture

I also chino modded my leafs. I cant stand the look of shooters so I wont be getting any. lol

It's all about the looks right Hehe..

tbh the cost is just ridiculous and that's what ain't helped.....

I think the other issue is that it's all good and well having your wheel being able to drop down further with these shackles but unless there is pressure from the damper, or the leaf has a very good curve, the wheel will not have 'weight' on it and provide little traction..... Which is probably also part of why a lot of folk like running springs on their dampers as it will aid traction in that manner....

And lets be honest here... They aint never gonna have a shit load of 'reliable' usable articulation like a 4 link....

But that is the beauty of these things and why i personally want to retain leafs without a doubt....

[fr8cture]

Originally Posted by stimpy

It's all about the looks right Hehe..

With a kit like the TF2 yes it is.

[HANgOVER Airbrush RC]

Looks...and points. Lol.