Hydraulic steering look/ Miniature Linear Actuator

[CCFBERG]

For those of you that like to go a bit overboard with your rigs and are looking for that hydraulic steering look but dont want to play the hydraulic game I have found something that I believe may help you out.

Before you say this wont work, read everything!!!! I almost closed the page because I said it was to complicated and that the average person wouldnt want to take the time in making this work. I was wrong! All my questions were answered as I read further and this will work very easily, Im actualy suprised at the fact that nobody has done this and that its not a huge thing in the RC Crawling community. I have heard so many people talk about problems with conventional servo type steering, I think this could be the next style of steering!

The one Im posting up is a 6v version with a max output at 6v 240.995ozf (ounce-force) or 67 newtons.

It can be directly wired to any receiver using option-R (White,Red,Black)
White= servo input Red= 6v power Black=ground

Thery also have a threaded rod end.

15mm tall laid on thier side, not much bigger than alot of shocks that guys use as look-alike steering stabilizers.

any way here are some pics, and links to all the info needed to answer every question you have. But remember READ EVERYTHING!!!!! And look at all the options!

I think I may use these on my super!



Web site to order these=

http://www.robotshop.ca/home/product...-298-06-I.html

Data sheets! The all you need to know! Measurments ect,ect=

http://www.robotshop.ca/PDF/L12_datasheet.pdf



Config sheet=

http://www.robotshop.ca/PDF/L12_conf...eet_3Q2007.pdf


Also fully compressed they are only about 40mm long depending on the config you get!

Hope you guys find this usefull!!!

[jimecm]

That thing is sweet

[rcjeepbuilder]

Man that would look so much more scale than the servos hanging around !!
Thanks for sharing man..

[CCFBERG]

no prob! I was just killing time before work and searching the internet and I found it and then I sat in front of my computer for 2 1/2 hours glad you like it

[JavelinSST390]

For some reason the PDF's won't open for me (I probably just need to update adobe) But this appears that it will fit pretty much anywhere a TLT Shock would go, correct?

If so, I think I might have to try this. I HATE the look of an axle-mounted servo but mounting the servo on the chassis presents a whole bag full o' problems.

How fast are these on paper, compared to a regular servo?

I only ask because I can't view the PDF's right now.

EDIT: Okay, I found what I was looking for. It says 4mm/s is the speed of this, which means that if it's a 30mm stroke, it will take this thing 7.5 seconds to steer lock-to-lock. That's awfully slow.

Thanks for the heads up!!!

[Grizzly4x4]

A 200 in-oz servo with a 1" long servo horn (pretty standard) puts out 55.6 Newtons at best.
A Hitec 645 (133 in-oz) puts out 36.9 Newtons at best.

So it looks like the 210 would be the right size. 2.5mm/sec is pretty slow steering but maybe it's worth it.

Nice info Berg, I like it.

[CCFBERG]

Originally Posted by JavelinSST390

For some reason the PDF's won't open for me (I probably just need to update adobe) But this appears that it will fit pretty much anywhere a TLT Shock would go, correct?

If so, I think I might have to try this. I HATE the look of an axle-mounted servo but mounting the servo on the chassis presents a whole bag full o' problems.

How fast are these on paper, compared to a regular servo?

I only ask because I can't view the PDF's right now.

EDIT: Okay, I found what I was looking for. It says 4mm/s is the speed of this, which means that if it's a 30mm stroke, it will take this thing 7.5 seconds to steer lock-to-lock. That's awfully slow.

Thanks for the heads up!!!

Ya I was just looking into the speed thing but Im at work so I cat called away, but yes your right 7.5 is what I came up with but there are other geering options not just this one. Im looking into one right now that has a 1.5 sec time Ill let you know what I find!

[Zurbz]

That is a really cool find. I may have to try one of these out.

[CCFBERG]

Its just going to be a fact of doing some math and finding the right speed at the right amount of force. Your going to sacrifice something> fast but less force , slow=more force so Ill play with the #'s a bit and try to find the happy medium if Grizz didnt already nail it, and I think he might have!

[CCFBERG]

These are fast but the length may not be there still looking!

http://www.firgelli.com/pdf/PQ12_datasheet.pdf

I need to go home and measure my hydro steering's travel I think this will work great!


As far as my previous post on this (the L12 actuator) Gearing option 30 and Stroke Option 30mm will give you full trav in 1.8 seconds

[RexRacer19]

I wonder if these will self center in servo mode or if they just act like a winch would?

[CCFBERG]

Originally Posted by R1 Seven

I wonder if these will self center in servo mode or if they just act like a winch would?

They center if wired up as a normal servo from what I understand

[RexRacer19]

That would be awesome. Thanks for posting this thing up.

[JavelinSST390]

Hey guys, I found a few videos on the 'net of these things in action. Some of the faster ones would be more than liveable!

Here's a Video of the L12 actuator: I believe this to be a 100mm or longer version in either the 210 or 295 gearing? But I might be wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIsIW...eature=related

And a video of the PQ12 actuator, this is the high-speed low-torque one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq5u7...eature=related

I'm working on an E-mail to this company, as they have the technology to build EXACTLY what we need in what is essentially a miniature hydraulic servo. Basically, I'm thinking of asking these guys of the possibility of making (specifically for the R/C industry) a unit with higher power and speed.

I realize that in order to keep the costs of something like this down, a higher-powered/faster unit would have to be slightly larger. I think that would be fine with most of us, right?

I mean, right now we're looking at replacing that huge, ugly box with something that's roughly the same dimensions as a turned-down TLT shock!!!! And in the case of the PQ12, Even smaller!!!!

I think that if it were even the size of a standard TLT shock it would be good enough for most of us, right?

[CCFBERG]

Originally Posted by JavelinSST390

Hey guys, I found a few videos on the 'net of these things in action. Some of the faster ones would be more than liveable!

Here's a Video of the L12 actuator: I believe this to be a 100mm or longer version in either the 210 or 295 gearing? But I might be wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIsIW...eature=related

And a video of the PQ12 actuator, this is the high-speed low-torque one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq5u7...eature=related

I'm working on an E-mail to this company, as they have the technology to build EXACTLY what we need in what is essentially a miniature hydraulic servo. Basically, I'm thinking of asking these guys of the possibility of making (specifically for the R/C industry) a unit with higher power and speed.

I realize that in order to keep the costs of something like this down, a higher-powered/faster unit would have to be slightly larger. I think that would be fine with most of us, right?

I mean, right now we're looking at replacing that huge, ugly box with something that's roughly the same dimensions as a turned-down TLT shock!!!! And in the case of the PQ12, Even smaller!!!!

I think that if it were even the size of a standard TLT shock it would be good enough for most of us, right?

Awsome man!!!! This is what I wanted!!! Somone that was willing to take it to the next level!!! I was also thinking about contacting them but Ive been busy with my own project/ projects! and trying to get it all strait. Ive been running some #'s trying to get something down on paper that I could contact them about before I contacted them as I figure they are more receptive when you already have it figured out for them. But hell man give it all you got!!!! Like I said before this could be the next way we do things taking the RCRC industry to another level Keep us posted!

I didnt post this stuff up for someone else to do the leg work, I just cant give it my full attention at this time untill I complete some other things I got going. So if nobody else says it I will! God job and Thanks!

[Zurbz]

Originally Posted by JavelinSST390

Hey guys, I found a few videos on the 'net of these things in action. Some of the faster ones would be more than liveable!

Here's a Video of the L12 actuator: I believe this to be a 100mm or longer version in either the 210 or 295 gearing? But I might be wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIsIW...eature=related

And a video of the PQ12 actuator, this is the high-speed low-torque one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq5u7...eature=related

I'm working on an E-mail to this company, as they have the technology to build EXACTLY what we need in what is essentially a miniature hydraulic servo. Basically, I'm thinking of asking these guys of the possibility of making (specifically for the R/C industry) a unit with higher power and speed.

I realize that in order to keep the costs of something like this down, a higher-powered/faster unit would have to be slightly larger. I think that would be fine with most of us, right?

I mean, right now we're looking at replacing that huge, ugly box with something that's roughly the same dimensions as a turned-down TLT shock!!!! And in the case of the PQ12, Even smaller!!!!

I think that if it were even the size of a standard TLT shock it would be good enough for most of us, right?

If they require a pre-order of X number of units to get them started, I will order 2 to help out (provided they do not exceed $100 each) then I would have to do just one for now.

[JavelinSST390]

Okay, I'm working on the E-mail to them, and I would like to include a (short) list of the most popular servos out there with links to specifications, etc. so they have something to compare to for our needs.

I already have the Hitec HS-645MG and the HS-5955TG, what others (around the same price as one of their actuators, which would be under $100) should I include?

And I'll post a final draft of the letter here before I send it to get the input of everyone. I'm not the best with words so I like to have stuff like this proofread.

[JavelinSST390]

Okay, here's a final draft of my letter to them. Tell me what you think.

Hello. First off I would like to say your products are quite impressive, and I have an application for your actuators that you may have never thought of.

I am a hobbyist involved in Radio Controlled vehicles, specifically R/C rock crawling. This a large and rapidly growing sport that puts great demands on both the equipment and the skill of the builder and driver of any given particular vehicle. Most of the vehicles are completely custom-built, and a great emphasis is put on having a scale appearance, meaning that the vehicle looks like a full-size counterpart.

For more information on the sport, this is the premiere website for all things R/C rock crawling: http://www.rccrawler.com.

In fact, there is a discussion thread on your products and their possible application to our hobby going on in the forums there right now. Here's a link to save you from having to search for it:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1043308#post1043308

Up until now, the only option for steering control in our vehicles was the standard R/C servo. These are bulky, hard to hide, and look nothing like any component on any full-size vehicle. Not to mention that for a reliable, high-quality, high-torque servo, they can be very expensive, (up to $100) and even then can be quite un-reliable, as most available servos just aren't up to the demands that many serious R/C crawlers put on them.

But I, and several other people believe your products could change all of that.

We are all very interested in your line of L12 and PQ12 actuators, the L12, in a 90mm overall length, seems the most promising for our applications, especially given the "servo interface" option. They would be easy to mount on most R/C vehicles, and the power output of the lower-geared L12's is comparable to that of some of the more powerful servos available to us right now.

The only issue with their use for our applications is the speed at which they extend and retract, and the question of their durability under high-stress, high-load conditions. The high-force units are too slow to be used for our applications, but the high-speed ones don't really have enough force for what we need.

I would like to inquire with you about the possibility of creating a R/C-specific actuator for our purposes, one that combines high force with a reasonable speed from full compression to full extension, to replace the servos we've all been using. For our purposes the actuator could even be a bit larger than the L12, if needed. But a 90mm length with a 30mm stroke seems that it would be about perfect for our uses.

For reference, here are a few of the most popular servos, with links to specifications on each unit (speed, force, etc.)

The Hitec HS-645MG servo
Link to specs: http://www.hitecrcd.com/servos/show?name=HS-645MG

The Hitec HS-5995TG servo
Link: http://www.hitecrcd.com/servos/show?name=HS-5955TG

The Hitec HSC-5998TG servo
Link: http://www.hitecrcd.com/servos/show?name=HSC-5998TG

There are many more in use out there, but these are the most popular for our uses, and most of the other servos in use for our purposes have similar specifications.

I believe that if you could design an actuator that combines high force, high speed, durability, and a package not much bigger than the L12 actuators, with a similar shape, I truly believe that you could make R/C servos completely obsolete. It could be REVOLUTIONARY to not only our little area of the R/C industry, but the ENTIRE R/C industry. I could see many, many applications beyond just our uses. Especially in Radio-controlled aircraft, where size and weight are everything.

The ideal unit for our purposes would have similar speed and force to the above listed servos, and be rugged enough to take sustained abuse. Resistance to outdoors elements would also be desirable. If you could manufacture and sell them for under $100 US each, I think you would have quite a hot seller on your hands.

I am looking forward to your response on this matter, as are many others over at Rccrawler.com.


Thank you for your time,
Christopher Peterson

[Zurbz]

Excellent

[jimecm]

I'd would use those over servos
The letter looks good to me