RCCrawler Forums

1\4elliptic toy · 06-06-2009, 03:41 PM

Ok, Seeing as how the cvd's are failing left and right on the new losi I wanted to do a picture comparison with my other 2 rigs to see how they stack up against the losi. What I found shocked me and made me wonder how the losi axle design made it through R&D.

For the record, I do own all 3 of these rigs (although the losi is still in the box because of this cvd fiasco.)

I will walk you through the picture's to point out what I saw as problem area's. I will for the most part compare the venom to the losi because its the only other rig that can turn very sharp and aside from the original issue with the over heat treated stubs the venom has had no drivetrain issues so it can obviously handle the sharp turning without failure.

Picture 1
Here is a side by side of all three axles, stubs and pins.

Picture 2
Here is an exploded view of all three, first thing I notice was the losi was considerably smaller than the other two.

Picture 3
Here you can see the size difference of them, the diameter of the pins in the losi really shocked me ( I read these are the same as the losi 1:18 scale mini crawler) I hope not...they are pretty small though.

Picture 4
Here you can see that the Venom stub has a beveled inside to accomidate the sharp turning radius without the need to machine down the axle shaft, I think this is where losi made their major design flaw.

Picture 5
Here is the losi stub, notice no bevel on the inside, there is not much "meat" to these ethier, I was suprised when I looked at it up close.

Picture 6
Here are the stubs side by side, the venom clearly is much beefier than the losi.

Picture 7
One more side by side shot of them for true size reference, once again the venom is much larger.

Picture 8
Here are all 3 again, notice the pin size as well as that bevel in the venom.

Picture 9
Here are all three side by side again you can see that losi has necked down the shaft to get the sharp turning radius instead of beveling the inside of the cup.

Picture 10
Here you can see why the venom design clearly is better than the losi, if the losi had beveled the cups they would not have needed to pinch this axle to the point of premature failure.

My thoughts are that once the losi beefs up their shafts they will still have issues with their cups and pins failing, I break a venom axle pin every once and awhile and they are much bigger and stronger, I cannot imagine trying to not break the losi pins, they look like they would fail before the axles would (they should right?) I know I want my pins to fail before I break an axle or something worse. For now I will sit on my losi and see what happens, I am not willing to at this point put any MORE money or faith in this rig.

Dark8ngel · 06-06-2009, 03:52 PM

I've got both the losi and creeper. The creeper does seem/look to be built a bit more solid...in all area's compared to the losi.
But as for design and layout..losi hands down, but it's not much if the parts wont hold up...time will tell...like it so far except the motor issue ;)

jnev · 06-06-2009, 03:53 PM

Seems pretty noticable that the pins are much smaller in the Losi than on the Axial or Venom. The Losi axle looks a little smaller than the Venom, but slightly larger than the Axial. Interesting... I wonder how Rich plans to fix the problems. Thanks for the pictures!

grouser · 06-06-2009, 04:13 PM

Ignore the troll

thanks for taking the time to post all those pics,,,nice comparion

I see trade offs though, the pin is bigger on the venoom but the hole is bigger also so that means the material left for the ball is smaller,,,but it ain't brakin so ,,,,hummm
I don't like the way they necked it down instead of shaving the inside,,,
I think we will all be hapy with the fix,,,it wil take a good reapair job to get rid of the bad taste in Losi's mouth

BigB_117 · 06-06-2009, 04:14 PM

Interesting to see them all side by side.

Thanks for taking the time to post this up for everyone.

1\4elliptic toy · 06-06-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grouser

Ignore the troll

thanks for taking the time to post all those pics,,,nice comparion

I think we will all be hapy with the fix,,,it wil take a good reapair job to get rid of the bad taste in Losi's mouth

I agree, Rich and all of the losi drivers I have met are stand up guys, I am sure they are not at their desks eating dounuts wondering what to do..It will have to be fixed beyond a shadow of anyones doubt at this point or it will be worse than ever.

Speedracer19 · 06-06-2009, 04:36 PM

The CVD design that you have used in the photos i will agree are bad designs. Using a CVD in the type of rigs we have well they don't work at least in the design we have here. In the Axial section there are 100's of post about the pins breaking in their CVDs & i have used those & broken them the problem with the CVDs breaking is the use of the pin, to small of a pin, the pin breaks, to small of the swivel on the axle, it breaks. The problem with the axle with pin going into the slot hub is there is a problem with the forces applied to each other making it hard to slide & they lock up the steering. Also when the pin wears a groove in the hub it really locks in place. The best design os a CVD is MIP's with the bell end on the shaft/axle & the hub having the swivel in it because you can make the stub large. The strongest CVD design that i have seen a LVD & it has a bell on one end but uses a block for a swivel with two pins driving the hub part. These at one time were offered in some on-road rc cars, i'll see if i can dig some up & show a photo of them. I would like to see a driveshaft system like Losi uses on their off-road cars & truck with the star between the axle & hub.

Harley · 06-06-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedracer19

The CVD design that you have used in the photos i will agree are bad designs. Using a CVD in the type of rigs we have well they don't work at least in the design we have here. In the Axial section there are 100's of post about the pins breaking in their CVDs & i have used those & broken them the problem with the CVDs breaking is the use of the pin, to small of a pin, the pin breaks, to small of the swivel on the axle, it breaks. The problem with the axle with pin going into the slot hub is there is a problem with the forces applied to each other making it hard to slide & they lock up the steering. Also when the pin wears a groove in the hub it really locks in place. The best design os a CVD is MIP's with the bell end on the shaft/axle & the hub having the swivel in it because you can make the stub large. The strongest CVD design that i have seen a LVD & it has a bell on one end but uses a block for a swivel with two pins driving the hub part. These at one time were offered in some on-road rc cars, i'll see if i can dig some up & show a photo of them. I would like to see a driveshaft system like Losi uses on their off-road cars & truck with the star between the axle & hub.

Holy run-on sentence Batman.....

The comparison shots are interesting. It will be interesting to see what CVD's we are running in these trucks in 6 months after the aftermarket has a chance to R&D.

ripper7777777 · 06-06-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley0706

Holy run-on sentence Batman.....

The comparison shots are interesting. It will be interesting to see what CVD's we are running in these trucks in 6 months after the aftermarket has a chance to R&D.

That to me is way more important than any fix Losi comes up with. Not knocking Losi or Rich, but with all these rigs time has proven that the aftermarket is where the real parts come from.

duddits · 06-07-2009, 04:21 AM

cool stuff

If I break my Losi CVD, I wanna modified the Venom one - looks stronger...

Thx a lot for the comparsion !!!

Regards, Juergen

tomik · 06-07-2009, 08:28 AM

Cool comparison! Seems like Losi's gone cheap on the important parts :(.

Fishmaxx · 06-09-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grouser

I don't like the way they necked it down instead of shaving the inside,,,
I think we will all be hapy with the fix,,,it wil take a good reapair job to get rid of the bad taste in Losi's mouth

There just isn't enough bulk there to withstand the punishment. Even Lost upgrades the material it still smaller than the Venom's. Design changes will likely mean reduced steering (Key Selling Point)

Berg owners have waited +15 months for their CVD's . Hopefully Losi drivers will get theirs sooned.

mannysouza · 06-09-2009, 10:43 PM

Funny mine is still in the box till the cvd thing is worked out as well. Happy to here I'm not the only one in the same boat.

rockhopperz · 09-20-2010, 09:23 AM

you could always make your own pins from very high strength steel..thats what I did with the venom pins and the cvds are as good as MIP's from experience this is a fact to me!!! and you can hog out the slot in the shaft and drill a bigger hole in the stub then better steel pins!! not too brittle but not too soft, like a good carbon steel!!

if you have the resources thaty is!!

thnx for the pics..NOW one question, I have always wondered...are the shafts in the axial and venom the same length? would they be swap-able? could you use a axial diff unit in the creeper??

losikid · 09-20-2010, 03:40 PM

Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead, i was bout to say something about those not being v3's lol

sledge57 · 09-20-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by losikid

Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead, i was bout to say something about those not being v3's lol

Damn Grave Diggers

06-06-2009, 03:41 PM	#1
1\4elliptic toy Quarry Creeper Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: St George Posts: 318	Losi VS Venom VS Axial (axle picture comparison) Ok, Seeing as how the cvd's are failing left and right on the new losi I wanted to do a picture comparison with my other 2 rigs to see how they stack up against the losi. What I found shocked me and made me wonder how the losi axle design made it through R&D. For the record, I do own all 3 of these rigs (although the losi is still in the box because of this cvd fiasco.) I will walk you through the picture's to point out what I saw as problem area's. I will for the most part compare the venom to the losi because its the only other rig that can turn very sharp and aside from the original issue with the over heat treated stubs the venom has had no drivetrain issues so it can obviously handle the sharp turning without failure. Picture 1 Here is a side by side of all three axles, stubs and pins. Picture 2 Here is an exploded view of all three, first thing I notice was the losi was considerably smaller than the other two. Picture 3 Here you can see the size difference of them, the diameter of the pins in the losi really shocked me ( I read these are the same as the losi 1:18 scale mini crawler) I hope not...they are pretty small though. Picture 4 Here you can see that the Venom stub has a beveled inside to accomidate the sharp turning radius without the need to machine down the axle shaft, I think this is where losi made their major design flaw. Picture 5 Here is the losi stub, notice no bevel on the inside, there is not much "meat" to these ethier, I was suprised when I looked at it up close. Picture 6 Here are the stubs side by side, the venom clearly is much beefier than the losi. Picture 7 One more side by side shot of them for true size reference, once again the venom is much larger. Picture 8 Here are all 3 again, notice the pin size as well as that bevel in the venom. Picture 9 Here are all three side by side again you can see that losi has necked down the shaft to get the sharp turning radius instead of beveling the inside of the cup. Picture 10 Here you can see why the venom design clearly is better than the losi, if the losi had beveled the cups they would not have needed to pinch this axle to the point of premature failure. My thoughts are that once the losi beefs up their shafts they will still have issues with their cups and pins failing, I break a venom axle pin every once and awhile and they are much bigger and stronger, I cannot imagine trying to not break the losi pins, they look like they would fail before the axles would (they should right?) I know I want my pins to fail before I break an axle or something worse. For now I will sit on my losi and see what happens, I am not willing to at this point put any MORE money or faith in this rig. Attached Images
$1\4elliptic toy is offline$

06-06-2009, 04:36 PM	#7
Speedracer19 Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Highlands Ranch, Co. Posts: 852	The CVD design that you have used in the photos i will agree are bad designs. Using a CVD in the type of rigs we have well they don't work at least in the design we have here. In the Axial section there are 100's of post about the pins breaking in their CVDs & i have used those & broken them the problem with the CVDs breaking is the use of the pin, to small of a pin, the pin breaks, to small of the swivel on the axle, it breaks. The problem with the axle with pin going into the slot hub is there is a problem with the forces applied to each other making it hard to slide & they lock up the steering. Also when the pin wears a groove in the hub it really locks in place. The best design os a CVD is MIP's with the bell end on the shaft/axle & the hub having the swivel in it because you can make the stub large. The strongest CVD design that i have seen a LVD & it has a bell on one end but uses a block for a swivel with two pins driving the hub part. These at one time were offered in some on-road rc cars, i'll see if i can dig some up & show a photo of them. I would like to see a driveshaft system like Losi uses on their off-road cars & truck with the star between the axle & hub. Last edited by Speedracer19; 06-06-2009 at 04:48 PM.

09-20-2010, 09:23 AM	#14
rockhopperz I'm a retard Join Date: May 2010 Location: bellingham, Wa. Posts: 104	you could always make your own pins from very high strength steel..thats what I did with the venom pins and the cvds are as good as MIP's from experience this is a fact to me!!! and you can hog out the slot in the shaft and drill a bigger hole in the stub then better steel pins!! not too brittle but not too soft, like a good carbon steel!! if you have the resources thaty is!! thnx for the pics..NOW one question, I have always wondered...are the shafts in the axial and venom the same length? would they be swap-able? could you use a axial diff unit in the creeper?? Last edited by rockhopperz; 09-20-2010 at 09:25 AM.

06-06-2009, 03:52 PM	#2
Dark8ngel Pebble Pounder Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Iron Range, MN. Posts: 170	I've got both the losi and creeper. The creeper does seem/look to be built a bit more solid...in all area's compared to the losi. But as for design and layout..losi hands down, but it's not much if the parts wont hold up...time will tell...like it so far except the motor issue ;)

06-06-2009, 03:53 PM	#3
jnev Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 222	Seems pretty noticable that the pins are much smaller in the Losi than on the Axial or Venom. The Losi axle looks a little smaller than the Venom, but slightly larger than the Axial. Interesting... I wonder how Rich plans to fix the problems. Thanks for the pictures!

06-06-2009, 04:13 PM	#4
grouser Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NorCal Posts: 529	Ignore the troll thanks for taking the time to post all those pics,,,nice comparion I see trade offs though, the pin is bigger on the venoom but the hole is bigger also so that means the material left for the ball is smaller,,,but it ain't brakin so ,,,,hummm I don't like the way they necked it down instead of shaving the inside,,, I think we will all be hapy with the fix,,,it wil take a good reapair job to get rid of the bad taste in Losi's mouth

06-06-2009, 04:14 PM	#5
BigB_117 RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Sebastopol CA Posts: 1,525	Interesting to see them all side by side. Thanks for taking the time to post this up for everyone.

06-07-2009, 04:21 AM	#10
duddits Newbie Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 9	cool stuff If I break my Losi CVD, I wanna modified the Venom one - looks stronger... Thx a lot for the comparsion !!! Regards, Juergen

06-07-2009, 08:28 AM	#11
tomik Quarry Creeper Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pirkkala, Finland Posts: 377	Cool comparison! Seems like Losi's gone cheap on the important parts :(.

06-09-2009, 10:43 PM	#13
mannysouza Rock Stacker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SAN JOSE Posts: 65	Funny mine is still in the box till the cvd thing is worked out as well. Happy to here I'm not the only one in the same boat.

09-20-2010, 03:40 PM	#15
losikid Got Worms? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 6,116	Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead, i was bout to say something about those not being v3's lol

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